Payload example , Chausson Welcome 85

[Jake Royd]

I have a 2008 example of the above MH.
It's a 3.5t vehicle with a stated payoad of 450kg

So I thought I would test the all up mass with the vehicle in full touring trim.

It had :-
Full fuel , 90lt
2/3 water 93lt (140lt tank)
two bikes and all their gear (1x heavy ebike and 1 x standard push bike)
3 full gas cylinders (1 x 13kg, 2 x 6kg)
And me at say 80kg

It tipped the scales on a proper weighbridge at 3420kg

This means that add my wife and there you are at 3500kg.

This is with no food of clothes in, the only things missing.

This is not quite as bad as I though.
If I ditch one 6kg cylinder(gross weight about 22kg) , and travel with say 1/3 of a tank of water.
let's say (46kg water + 22kg of cylinder) she would weigh 3352kg (3420-46-22)

So add the wife at 80kg, would be 3432 , leaving 68kg for food, clothes and all else.

Of course fuel would not always be full and I might have more thna 1/3 of a tank of water at times.

Anyway, the purpose of this little ramble is to illustrate that whatever happens, in full touring trim , I'm very close of just over the limit.
I know this is not news to many.
With a lower payload it would be impossible to carry a fairly standard load of stuff and stay below of near the max mass.

 

[Boringfrog]

Does the 450kg payload stated by the manufacturer take into account bike racks, gas bottles, etc?

 

[Jake Royd]

Does the 450kg payload stated by the manufacturer take into account bike racks, gas bottles, etc?

As far as I know , no.

Everything, fuel , water , gas , people and their food and gear etc. is payload.

 

[Langtoftlad]

My PVC fully loaded, setting off for a trip is pretty much 3490 [3 weighs, 3 different trips] full tanks, me & Kerry.
It was a bit of a surprise/shock... especially when comparing to other WildAx owners experiences - but it is what it is.

So, as I have 8 yrs + until I have to worry about licences... I decided to uprate...
But equally, I could have not bothered knowing if I was stopped I could dump 100kg of water...
Knowing that you're allowed 5% [175kg] leeway before prosecution
Knowing that the van was 'safe' as it was engineered up to 3850kg.

 

[Jake Royd]

My PVC fully loaded, setting off for a trip is pretty much 3490 [3 weighs, 3 different trips] full tanks, me & Kerry.
It was a bit of a surprise/shock... especially when comparing to other WildAx owners experiences - but it is what it is.

So, as I have 8 yrs + until I have to worry about licences... I decided to uprate...
But equally, I could have not bothered knowing if I was stopped I could dump 100kg of water...
Knowing that you're allowed 5% [175kg] leeway before prosecution
Knowing that the van was 'safe' as it was engineered up to 3850kg.

Not aware of the 5%.
I am going foreign for the first time in May and just wanted to know how much leeway I had in hand.
Answer, very little.

I am not that worried that French or Spanish plod will stop me and if they do , will they "do" me.
I have the printed ticket from the weighbridge , so unless they actually measure me with tyrepads or run me onto a weighbridge etc. I am pretty safe.

I'm likely to be less than 3675kg.

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[Wagoneer]

Piy you didn't weigh the rear axle (alone) when at the weighbridge.

If your water tank is at the rear of the van and the bikes are on a rack, that might put a lot of weight on the rear axle. I guess your rear axle is rated at 2000kg max.

 

[suavecarve]

You have been put in an impossible situation.

On the return journey do you bring the wife and bikes back or get more wine ?

 

[Minxy]

Jake - what were your individual axle weights?

 

[Langtoftlad]

Not aware of the 5%.
I am going foreign for the first time in May and just wanted to know how much leeway I had in hand.

"The legislation shows that a £60.00 penalty will be levied for a 0%-9.99% overload, but VOSA examiners will allow a 5% tolerance before Fixed Penalty or Prohibition issue unless the relevant weight has been exceeded by 1 tonne or more."

Of course that only applies in the UK, I have no idea what other countries might do.

 

[pappajohn]

I have the printed ticket from the weighbridge , so unless they actually measure me with tyrepads or run me onto a weighbridge etc. I am pretty safe.

Weighbridge ticket is meaningless though, that only applies at the time of weighing.
Since then you could have loaded a heavy motorbike in the garage and a dozen cases of wine in the shower.
You know you haven't, but they don't.

They won't use the ticket....they will weigh you.

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[Jake Royd]

Jake - what were your individual axle weights?

Don't know , they only do total weights on this particular weighbridge.
It's plated at 2000rear 1500front.

 

[Jake Royd]

Weighbridge ticket is meaningless though, that only applies at the time of weighing.
Since then you could have loaded a heavy motorbike in the garage and a dozen cases of wine in the shower.
You know you haven't, but they don't.

They won't use the ticket....they will weigh you.

Yes, I know but the ticket might add some potential for confusing bullshit (from me not the police )

 

[Detnor]

We were weighed on the N10 south of Limoges, stopped all Motorhomes on a roundabout and directed into a large car park. Put on pads and all paperwork checked. I knew I was ok, we had 200 kilos to spare, but I still felt intimidated. The police were great, no problems, but I wouldn't have liked to explain if we had been 1kg over.

 

[gus-lopez]

"The legislation shows that a £60.00 penalty will be levied for a 0%-9.99% overload, but VOSA examiners will allow a 5% tolerance before Fixed Penalty or Prohibition issue unless the relevant weight has been exceeded by 1 tonne or more."

Of course that only applies in the UK, I have no idea what other countries might do.

Depends on what region you are in here. I have seen a caravan owner, 60kgs overweight, hit with a 3000€ fine .
Some also consider that your 'overweight' is not the excess over 3,5T or whatever you are plated at but the overweight is the plated weight minus the unladen weight as a %
I.e
If 3,5T & unladen weight is 2 T then if you are 300kgs over weight it is 300 as a % of 3500 -2000=1500kgs = 20% overweight @50€per kilo = bankrupt.
& yes the spanish have or can find an unladen weight for all & any vehicle.Remember that the identical spanish motorhome will have an unladen weight here so it is just a question of them finding it on the system if they really wish to be funny.

 

[Minxy]

Don't know , they only do total weights on this particular weighbridge.
It's plated at 2000rear 1500front.

In which case that's what you need to do as you actually don't know if either of your axles are over their capacity.

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[maison]

Weighbridge ticket is meaningless though, that only applies at the time of weighing.
Since then you could have loaded a heavy motorbike in the garage and a dozen cases of wine in the shower.
You know you haven't, but they don't.

They won't use the ticket....they will weigh you.

Agree totally!

12 years ago we took delivery of a new motorhome. We duly checked weights and were well within the limit.

We were pulled in to a random check on the A38 while heading to the Plymouth ferry. Although I showed them the weighbridge ticket, obtained only 20 hours before, they still weighed us.

We passed OK but, in the process of checking the weight label under our bonnet, they broke the micro switch on our alarm system. We didn’t notice until, on site for the evening, I tried to set the alarm.

Result.....a desperate drive around Plymouth the next morning looking for a new micro switch before catching the ferry.

 

[Jake Royd]

In which case that's what you need to do as you actually don't know if either of your axles are over their capacity.

Yes, I know @Minxy Girl but I'm not that obsessive about it. My measurement is telling me the axles are about at what they are plated for. What I don't know is the weight distribution

 

[Minxy]

Yes, I know @Minxy Girl but I'm not that obsessive about it. My measurement is telling me the axles are about at what they are plated for. What I don't know is the weight distribution

Unless I've misunderstood what you're saying an overall weight cannot possibly tell you that the axles are 'safely' at what they are plated for, even if you think they are 'about' okay ... without having the individual weights done you can't know ... that IS the weigh distribution.

 

[Cheshirecat57]

"The legislation shows that a £60.00 penalty will be levied for a 0%-9.99% overload, but VOSA examiners will allow a 5% tolerance before Fixed Penalty or Prohibition issue unless the relevant weight has been exceeded by 1 tonne or more."

Of course that only applies in the UK, I have no idea what other countries might do.

So you still (could) get fined in theory for being, say, 4% over ??

 

[Ninjabob]

Unless I've misunderstood what you're saying an overall weight cannot possibly tell you that the axles are 'safely' at what they are plated for, even if you think they are 'about' okay ... without having the individual weights done you can't know ... that IS the weigh distribution.

She's right you know - you could be well overloaded on the rear. Bear in mind it is nigh on impossible to load in such a way to reach the front axle maximum unless both of you are clinically obese, you have found a way to hang the spare wheel under the engine and have a front mounted bike rack!

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[Lenny HB]

Just proves what I have always said. For 2 people you need a payload of 700 kg and for more people = more payload.
Hence I bought a van with over 1350 kg of payload and fully loaded with full tanks I still have 400-500kg spare. It's nice feeling smug.

 

[Jake Royd]

She's right you know - you could be well overloaded on the rear. Bear in mind it is nigh on impossible to load in such a way to reach the front axle maximum unless both of you are clinically obese, you have found a way to hang the spare wheel under the engine and have a front mounted bike rack!

You are both quite correct.
In my case I have a 1500/2000 axle loading or 43%/57%
All I'm saying is that the axle loads must be pretty close to these values unless the motorhome is grossly unbalanced if the Gross mass is 3500.

 

[Jake Royd]

Just proves what I have always said. For 2 people you need a payload of 700 kg and for more people = more payload.
Hence I bought a van with over 1350 kg of payload and fully loaded with full tanks I still have 400-500kg spare. It's nice feeling smug.

 

[glenn2926]

If you are so near to your max get it plated for more weight. I have a very similar van 08 Chausson Allegro 97. Mine is plated at 4 tonnes. I think it is just a paper exercise.
This is of course providing you have the license.

 

[Allanm]

We were stopped a few weeks ago going into France from Spain at a toll near St Sebastian and directed to a weighbridge. We waited for a few minutes and were sent on our way. I assume we were being weighed, but they could just as easily been checking whether we had been speeding through any of the dozens of speed cameras we drove past.

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[Minxy]

You are both quite correct.
In my case I have a 1500/2000 axle loading or 43%/57%
All I'm saying is that the axle loads must be pretty close to these values unless the motorhome is grossly unbalanced if the Gross mass is 3500.

Sorry but I have to disagree, unless you know the actual weight on each axle it is impossible to know if you are within the limits for each axle even if you are under 3500kg. The ONLY way to be sure is to get each axle weighed ... I don't wish to keep saying it but that's the truth of the matter ... having an unbalanced 'load' can affect steering, handling, and most importantly braking efficiency.

 

[gus-lopez]

She's right you know - you could be well overloaded on the rear. Bear in mind it is nigh on impossible to load in such a way to reach the front axle maximum unless both of you are clinically obese, you have found a way to hang the spare wheel under the engine and have a front mounted bike rack!

Or you do like I do & load heavy goods in the over cab bed area.If I don't then 77% is best I can get of front axle weight.

In my case I have a 1500/2000 axle loading or 43%/57%

As it is a low profile I'd hazard a guess that the front axle is around 1200-1300kgs with the rear being over at 2200-2300kgs.

 

[Ernesto]

So if a 3,5t PVC is uprated to 3,85t....what happens to the axle limits ? Is the extra 350Kg divided equally between the axles ?

 

[Langtoftlad]

So if a 3,5t PVC is uprated to 3,85t....what happens to the axle limits ? Is the extra 350Kg divided equally between the axles ?

AFAIK - just the overall maximum increases, the axle limits remain the same... my PVC was 3500 but axles were 1850F 2000R.

 

[Minxy]

So if a 3,5t PVC is uprated to 3,85t....what happens to the axle limits ? Is the extra 350Kg divided equally between the axles ?

No, on a 3.5t PVC it would likely have axle max limits of 1850 & 2000 so they would be the same, it's just the ability to actually 'use' more of the carrying capacity of each axle that changes - an example:

If you load up your 3500kg camper you might have around 1500kg on the front, and 1800kg on the rear making 3300kg in total, this would allow you to put an extra 200kg on the rear to take it to its maximum of 2000kg, or spread it between the 2 axles, however, if you uprate to 3850kg (the max of both axles) you still cannot go over the 2000kg on the rear.​

This is why it is important to get the individual axle weights (once you have the camper in full touring trim with everyone on board) so you know if uprating will actually give you more capacity where you need it, usually on the rear.

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