Parking eye rules regulation

Jul 5, 2013
7,458
5,653
Tunbridge Wells
Funster No
26,797
MH
A class
Exp
Since 2013
An implied terms of any contract is that it is lawful. If people sleeping in their cars / motorhomes is in breach of planning legislation, and it is, then this is a reasonable implied term - they don't have to spell it out.
That will depend upon the facts of each case. And we cannot be sure until we get a reported case where the facts are four square with what we are referring to.

And if it is unlawful the remedy may be to make the contract unenforceable.
 
Jul 3, 2018
304
419
Oxfordshire
Funster No
54,729
MH
Auto sleeper Executive
Exp
since 2014
Well for me this thread has run its course we have all given reasons for how we think or feel about parking companies and rules and I dont believe any of us will agree until it has gone through a full court case and the outcome is reported back here I for one promise if ever I fall foul of one of these companies I will report back here win or lose (y) :)
 
Jul 5, 2013
7,458
5,653
Tunbridge Wells
Funster No
26,797
MH
A class
Exp
Since 2013
Freedom of information act covers all government departments including any court cases taken on their behalf and any county court judgement that could affect the general public including private cases
We have an open legal system that allows all court cases to be reported, with only a few very rare exceptions.

Reports on most cases can be found on this website.
 

GJH

LIFE MEMBER
Aug 20, 2007
28,486
36,191
Acklam, Teesside, originally Glossop
Funster No
127
MH
Burstner t625 Harmony
Exp
Since 2006
But, as I understand that law, only the owner of the land is breaking the law, by allowing the camping to take place. And even is thay not the case, such a law can only be enforced by bringing a criminal prosecution in a criminal court.

But, again as I understand it, Parking Eye's claim against the parker is based solely on the terms of the contract they say comes into force when parking; they are not invoking or relying upon any criminal law, which is why such cases are always dealt with in the small claims court rather than the magistrates courts, which would be the case if this was a criminal prosecution.

Therefore I cannot see how that law would be relevant to the contract. Parking Eye clearly say that the contract is based only upon the conditions shown on the notices, and, in any event, I doubt that they could ever have the authority to prosecute a criminal action with regards to camping. The civil law is clear that such contract can be made by performance, i.e. by the person parking in the place. But that same law will rarely allow any other onerous conditions to be imposed that are not on the notice. And that is even more so when any such condition is to the detriment of a consumer.
The 1960 Act would be broken by the car park owner if it allowed camping without a licence. That is why the contract (which is what would be breached by the consumer) does not allow it. The provisions of the 1960 Act are, therefore, relevant to the contract.

As for "onerous conditions" or "detriment of the consumer" that simply doesn't arise. We are talking about a car park - an area designated for parking vehicles, not for any other purpose. It's high time some motorhome owners realised that it is up to land owners what they allow on their land, not up to motorhome owners who think they have a divine right to just camp as they like, where they like.
 

GJH

LIFE MEMBER
Aug 20, 2007
28,486
36,191
Acklam, Teesside, originally Glossop
Funster No
127
MH
Burstner t625 Harmony
Exp
Since 2006
Freedom of information act covers all government departments including any court cases taken on their behalf
So it does - but the Wye Valley Visitor Centre is a private company.
many people with the modern PVC conversions have them as their sole means of transport.
Their choice, nobody makes them do so.
 
Aug 18, 2014
12,053
28,089
Spain
Funster No
32,898
MH
Granduca 49
Exp
just restarted after 30 year break
well I have had an answer, but it has really only added to confusion and ambiguity

PE_Info <Info@parkingeye.co.uk>
Fri 30/08/2019 12:41
    • You


Good Afternoon,

Thank you for your recent correspondence.

We can confirm that motor homes are not permitted to park overnight.

Kind Regards,

The ParkingEye team


e: info@parkingeye.co.uk | w: parkingeye.co.uk

ParkingEye Limited | 40 Eaton Avenue | Matrix Park | Buckshaw Village | Chorley | PR7 7NA
Registered in England and Wales – No 5134454



Actually now saying I can't even park overnight, let alone sleep in it, I really can't see them enforcing the no parking element with the signage on site, clearly a very big can of worms, of varying sizes :unsure:
Hardly likely to be enforceable as the signage does not state that. Only that no camping etc ;is allowed.
 
Oct 19, 2014
1,445
3,798
Nth East Lincs
Funster No
33,882
MH
Knaus Sky I Plus 650LG
Exp
First MoHo - April 2015
Not saying that this is a good idea.. or morally right etc... I'm just posting how someone who was hacked off with parking conditions/charges made his protest.

.....

Some time ago an individual placed a carefully worded "legal" notice on his vehicle and subsequently refused to pay any parking charges... I'm sure it made the local free rag.

Something along the lines of...

I do not agree with or accept your T&C and I am effectively "squatting" or something to that effect... Along with some statements about not touching or attaching anything to his vehicle etc.. and by doing so... they agreed to pay him silly amounts of money

Which invoked a breach of other laws.. insofar as he'd be long gone before the time and hassle taken to have a bailiff remove vehicle/him.
 
Last edited:
Oct 15, 2013
892
1,398
Neasham, Co Durham
Funster No
28,587
MH
Hymer ExsisT588
Not saying that this is a good idea.. or morally right etc... I'm just posting how someone who was hacked off with parking conditions/charges made his protest.

.....

Some time ago an individual placed a carefully worded "legal" notice on his vehicle and subsequently refused to pay any parking charges... I'm sure it made the local free rag.

Something along the lines of...

I do not agree with or accept your T&C and I am effectively "squatting" or something to that effect... Along with some statements about not touching or attaching anything to his vehicle etc.. and by doing so... they agreed to pay him silly amounts of money

Which invoked a breach of other laws.. insofar as he'd be long gone before the time and hassle taken to have a bailiff remove vehicle/him.
I run a Marina with a car park. The limited space in our car park is for the use of our boat owners who pay a mooring fee, the customers who use the restaurants and cafe who pay a rent and service charge, it is not for folk who want to park for the day while they go for a walk on the beach.

We didn't charge our customers but did have clear signage stating that it was a private car parking and wheel clamping was in operation - before the law changed. Some chancer decided to park and put a similar worded notice to the one above on his windscreen threatening to bankrupt anyone who clamped his vehicle. Somehow when he returned to his vehicle he found that it had been hemmed in by three boats on trailers that we had needed to move whilst tidying up the boat yard. As he arrived after the day shift had finished it was four hours before he got his car out. He did call the police, but as the Marine Police were one of our tenants who themselves struggled to get parked, they dismissed it as a civil matter. He left threatening legal proceedings, needless to say it never happened.

Due to the change in the law affecting wheel clamping we have since signed up with a Parking Eye type of operation, from our customers point of view probably the best thing we've done as now they can park up.

And yes I would like to provide overnight motorhome parking, I often use marina aires when abroad and can see the fit with providing overnight berths for visitors, but we don't have either the space or the planning consents.

Image6044732049617152176.jpg
 
Oct 2, 2008
2,983
3,940
J10 M40
Funster No
4,247
MH
Bucher Duro 6x6 motorhome
Exp
since 1968
GJH following your suggestion
Parking is the action of moving a vehicle into a place in a car park or by the side of the road where it can be left. Cambridge dictionary .
Is there anything that says it must be left (vacated) ? The exclusions usually cite sleeping, etc . If one is in a MoHo in allowed suitable area, just sitting (waiting) , but not visible would that be "camping" , as unless evidence of sleeping etc surely no contravention would be demonstrated .
 

GJH

LIFE MEMBER
Aug 20, 2007
28,486
36,191
Acklam, Teesside, originally Glossop
Funster No
127
MH
Burstner t625 Harmony
Exp
Since 2006
GJH following your suggestion
Parking is the action of moving a vehicle into a place in a car park or by the side of the road where it can be left. Cambridge dictionary .
Is there anything that says it must be left (vacated) ? The exclusions usually cite sleeping, etc . If one is in a MoHo in allowed suitable area, just sitting (waiting) , but not visible would that be "camping" , as unless evidence of sleeping etc surely no contravention would be demonstrated .
Perhaps next time I make a suggestion you will read it properly before responding. The operative word is "habitation" not "parking". In the car park in question the act of camping is banned, whether visible or not - as I am sure you are well aware.
 
Oct 2, 2008
2,983
3,940
J10 M40
Funster No
4,247
MH
Bucher Duro 6x6 motorhome
Exp
since 1968
GJH Sorry for my lack of understanding of your suggestion , as we seem to be having difficulty with our cognizance of each others use of English probably best that we cease , Have a nice day :)
 

funflair

LIFE MEMBER
Dec 11, 2013
11,859
11,437
Guisborough
Funster No
29,351
MH
N&B Flair 8000 IVECO
Exp
since 2012
I think anybody interested in this subject should read this document first, http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Eliz2/8-9/62

For motorhome I think we have to read motor “Caravan” so we fit into the “ Caravan” category, for habitation you have to think of things like eating drinking sleeping using the loo etc etc,

Martin
 

Puddleduck

LIFE MEMBER
Jan 15, 2014
9,390
19,722
Scottish Borders
Funster No
29,703
MH
SunLiving Lido M45SP
Exp
On and off for many years.
GJH your professional knowledge in this area is much appreciated (by me at least).

If there are "no camping" signs I will not stay overnight in my motorhome. Shame on me but I have not read all the links, however in the UK I understand that sleeping in a vehicle is camping. I have seen signs that say "no cooking" and "no picnics" (Perth) but the last was totally ignored as the car park in question is a coach transfer station as well as a park and ride and has vending machines and other food outlets. Strangely the "no sleeping overnight" is not on the signs but is on the council website.

I checked it out as there is free parking for 60 hours and it would be a handy spot should we be doing one of the long distance cycle routes - park and sleep there using the bus or train to get to the start of, or from the end of the day's ride - but not to be of course.

I have found that if one approaches parking officers at local councils they are, as a rule, very courteous and often helpful. Many people would rather seek forgiveness but I am the type that likes to have permission and not wait in trepidation for a parking charge notice or even a fine to come through the post.
 
Last edited:

dabhand

LIFE MEMBER
Feb 19, 2014
2,971
5,213
Staffs
Funster No
30,178
MH
Hymer S830 A Class
Exp
Since 1993
People have choices in life, go park where it says don’t park (sleep), and pay the fine when/if you get one, it will probably be cheaper than staying on a campsite anyway! Does anyone park in a disabled bay when they are not disabled or have a blue badge, no, why not? It’s just a silly old sign, go purchase the park4night app, I’ll wager you’ll find somewhere reasonable, close to where you want to be, I live on a farm, I have no parking signs at the end of my drive “road” why? So the guy that keeps sheep in my field can get in with his tractor and trailer and she transporter to tend his sheep, does it make any difference? Does it fork! We still get inconsiderate tw*ts parking there because they think they have a divine right to park anywhere they like cos it’s a free country isn’t it? I have parked (read camped) in car parks, lay-bys, shopping centres, beaches, cliff tops, Council car parks in fact anywhere where I can get my van, if it says no motorhomes, no overnight sleeping etc I don’t unless I have had the express permission of the owner/operator of the enforcing body (which I’ve also had on several occasions) you might not like it but obey the signs. I bet you all obey this one....

1567335597040.jpeg
 
Feb 5, 2014
721
693
mid-Norfolk
Funster No
29,980
MH
A class
Exp
since 2006
Last year I had the dubious pleasure of receiving a letter from Parking Eye inviting me to send £100 for failing to comply with charges in Southampton. If I paid within 14 days I need only send them £60. :rolleyes:

Having checked with various websites I was relieved to discover that my transgression had been captured on ANPR cameras and so PE only had 14 days to invoice me, but the dates on their document clearly showed that they had taken 25 days. I pointed this out to PE who replied with a further demand for the £100 (and, although 3 weeks had gone by, they would accept £60 if paid within 14 days). :rolleyes::rolleyes:

So I started on their appeals procedure, pointing out that they were in breach of DVLA and their professional body (BPA) rules. I also demanded evidence of the signage under similar lighting conditions to those appertaining at the time of my error, etc [all as advised by websites].

Two weeks later the documents arrived (30+ pages), along with another request for £100. (n)

I sent my appeal and received several emails telling me how far it had progressed and that various aspects were not being accepted. Eventually I got an appeal rejection letter along with another £100 request. However, they also included a POPLA number, so I was able to upload an appeal to their website. :D

Six months after I had parked without buying a ticket, POPLA rejected Parking Eye's demands on the grounds that they had not acted within the 14 day period. This is presumably well known to PE but they insisted in going through with all of the paperwork, all of the time and effort in the hope that I would pay my PCN. There were times when my stress levels made me think that it would have been the easier choice. :devil:

Parking Eye is an organisation which gives leeches a bad name. From memory the POPLA statistics for 2016 stated that they received 13000+ appeals concerning PE and upheld almost 12000 of them. And each appeal costs PE approx £30 but is free for the appellant. (y)

Gordon
 

Puddleduck

LIFE MEMBER
Jan 15, 2014
9,390
19,722
Scottish Borders
Funster No
29,703
MH
SunLiving Lido M45SP
Exp
On and off for many years.
If you make an mistake or omission and everything on the landowner's side (signage etc) is correct, you then get "caught" and invoiced / fined I don't see that you have a legitimate reason to complain. I have certainly forgotten to display my parking permit when late for work and received a council fine - which I paid and sent a letter of apology.

If the landowner does not comply with the law / regulations then complaints should be made loudly and frequently.

Just my opinion.

Having said that I would not park where I was not welcome. Parking on street (car parking not van) I have had damage to my vehicle because the house owner (terraced house no garden no dropped kerb no parking restrictions) thought he had the right to be able to park immediately outside his house - others had also suffered damage when parking there and it became a case of criminal damage. Yes, the householder was in the wrong but when I found out about his feelings and issues I chose to park elsewhere. A note on the windscreen would have sufficed rather than four slashed tyres :(
 
Aug 18, 2014
12,053
28,089
Spain
Funster No
32,898
MH
Granduca 49
Exp
just restarted after 30 year break
I have found that if one approaches parking officers at local councils they are, as a rule, very courteous and often helpful.
Last one i enquired at refused to reply to numerous requests .When I made an official complaint along with an Foi , courtesy of info supplied by GJH, they actually replied that they considered anyone enquiring re; MH parking at their car parks was a traveller:Eeek:& staff had been instructed to ignore any requests.:laughing:
 

big map

LIFE MEMBER
Mar 8, 2009
4,516
56,454
Poole
Funster No
5,855
MH
A Class
Exp
Since 2009
I have been having ongoing correspondence with Civil Enforcement Ltd since October 2016, I have agreed to mediation on the 19th of September 2019. When I will tell the mediator the same as I told CE in my original letter I was not the driver, it was my husband.

The travelling community have moved into the car park at Sandbanks

Sandbanks Car Park.jpg
 

GJH

LIFE MEMBER
Aug 20, 2007
28,486
36,191
Acklam, Teesside, originally Glossop
Funster No
127
MH
Burstner t625 Harmony
Exp
Since 2006
Last one i enquired at refused to reply to numerous requests .When I made an official complaint along with an Foi , courtesy of info supplied by GJH, they actually replied that they considered anyone enquiring re; MH parking at their car parks was a traveller:Eeek:& staff had been instructed to ignore any requests.:laughing:
I have sent half a dozen or more FoI requests to all local authorities in the UK over the last 13 years. I have experienced a mere handful of problems and never heard an excuse like that. I would guess that it is somebody at a relatively low level making decisions he/she has no right to.
It is certainly not acceptable and I should have complained had I received it - and then escalated it to the ICO if need be.
 

Puddleduck

LIFE MEMBER
Jan 15, 2014
9,390
19,722
Scottish Borders
Funster No
29,703
MH
SunLiving Lido M45SP
Exp
On and off for many years.
I have been having ongoing correspondence with Civil Enforcement Ltd since October 2016, I have agreed to mediation on the 19th of September 2019. When I will tell the mediator the same as I told CE in my original letter I was not the driver, it was my husband.
And then you should invoice them for all your costs and time.
 

big map

LIFE MEMBER
Mar 8, 2009
4,516
56,454
Poole
Funster No
5,855
MH
A Class
Exp
Since 2009
I have put in my counterclaim for costs including time, postage, printing, stress, distress and ongoing harassment.
 

big map

LIFE MEMBER
Mar 8, 2009
4,516
56,454
Poole
Funster No
5,855
MH
A Class
Exp
Since 2009
I have been having ongoing correspondence with Civil Enforcement Ltd since October 2016, I have agreed to mediation on the 19th of September 2019. When I will tell the mediator the same as I told CE in my original letter I was not the driver, it was my husband.

The travelling community have moved into the car park at Sandbanks

View attachment 328569
 

gwyntaxi

LIFE MEMBER
Jun 9, 2009
454
211
,Swansea
Funster No
7,041
MH
hymer starline 655
Exp
42yearscaravanning&motorhoming
How many times does it take to get through? In UK law - that's UK law where the car park concerned is located - you don't need to set up a tent or caravan &c to be camping.

Whether people like it or not, in the UK sleeping in a motorhome is camping not parking.

It's high time some people realised that parliament makes the laws in this country, they aren't made up or interpreted to suit the likes or dislikes of individuals.
Hi DJH, I’m pretty sure I am aware of the difference between camping and parking, but if I were driving my CAR and decided I cannot drive any further due to being really tired, and slept the night in my car,Is that going to be classed as camping? By the same token if I arrive at a beach car park, again in my CAR, and decide to get the chairs out and light the BBQ it seems I am quite entitled to do so without being considered to be camping but simply parking my car and enjoying the surroundings and weather, I wouldn’t dream of doing the above in a beach car park if I were in my Motorhome, but how do yo differentiate between the two, it could be that I don’t have the luxury of a car and a Motorhome so just have the Motorhome albeit a small one that I use as my everyday transport,but I would be allowed to park next to a car in my Motorhome and he could legally get his chairs and BBQ out, but I am parked 4feet apart from him in the next parking bay but I am not allowed to get mine out, not being awkward just stating a fact, and the same would apply whether I were parked in UK or Europe, just saying.
 

GJH

LIFE MEMBER
Aug 20, 2007
28,486
36,191
Acklam, Teesside, originally Glossop
Funster No
127
MH
Burstner t625 Harmony
Exp
Since 2006
Hi DJH, I’m pretty sure I am aware of the difference between camping and parking, but if I were driving my CAR and decided I cannot drive any further due to being really tired, and slept the night in my car,Is that going to be classed as camping? By the same token if I arrive at a beach car park, again in my CAR, and decide to get the chairs out and light the BBQ it seems I am quite entitled to do so without being considered to be camping but simply parking my car and enjoying the surroundings and weather, I wouldn’t dream of doing the above in a beach car park if I were in my Motorhome, but how do yo differentiate between the two, it could be that I don’t have the luxury of a car and a Motorhome so just have the Motorhome albeit a small one that I use as my everyday transport,but I would be allowed to park next to a car in my Motorhome and he could legally get his chairs and BBQ out, but I am parked 4feet apart from him in the next parking bay but I am not allowed to get mine out, not being awkward just stating a fact, and the same would apply whether I were parked in UK or Europe, just saying.
Did anyone say life was fair?
The national laws are in place because of the problems caused by people camping in tents, caravans, motorhomes. In general there hasn't been a problem with people simply using cars for camping (hence the absence of national legislation) but some councils have introduced bye-laws which do ban cars when used for camping where it has become one.
Whether a car owner would be legally entitled to get a BBQ out would depend on the bye-law covering the specific car park.

Bottom line is that the law is what it is. If people don't like it they can campaign/lobby to change it. Simply whinging about it or trying to find excuses to not obey it because they are too bone idle to put the effort in will have no positive effect. That's why I can no longer be a*s*d to bother trying to help.
 
Aug 26, 2008
1,501
5,633
B&NES
Funster No
3,823
MH
Van Conversion
Exp
since 2007
Bowen won on lack of signage, in this case there was a perfectly adequate sign.

Of course it is advice. Only the court can make the final decision. It is, though, advice based on years of research, including working with Natural England and lawyers at DeFRA who implement the 1960 Act.
Of course that all counts for nothing doesn't it? Any wonder I am sick and tired of trying to do something constructive to help motorhomers any more?
In my experience when the other side fails to turn up at the hearing without asking for an adjournment, you always win.

The District Judge could make findings that the grounds relied on by the Defendant lawyer were proven, to prevent Parking Eye appealing.
 
Aug 26, 2008
1,501
5,633
B&NES
Funster No
3,823
MH
Van Conversion
Exp
since 2007
I can't find any authority for a legal definition of "camping".

Even the Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000 (as amended) which has a long list of restrictions on rights of access set out in Schedule 2 only says:

"(s) engages in any organised games, or in camping, hang-gliding or para-gliding, or"

It even defines a "short lead for dogs" but as for "camping" ... where is that defined?

This Act appears to be the basis for saying that wild camping in the countryside is unlawful in England and Wales. Also the common law tort of trespass, if you do not have the consent of the landowner.

Turning to the managed privately-owned car park situation where overnight "camping" in your vehicle is prohibited as a condition of contract, it is basically for Judges to decide what is or isn't "camping" on the facts of an individual case (assuming that the parking management company hasn't already displayed its contractual definition of "camping" for the motorist to read). From a consumer standpoint I expect any ambiguity in the wording on the displayed Notice should be construed in favour of the motorist. I wouldn't want to bet on winning, however.

This leaves a grey area of uncertainty for anyone in a MH wishing to park overnight. In the end you should use your common sense and go elsewhere to wild camp, unless you relish spending your time and energy appealing against a parking charge notice.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but there appears to be nothing further to add to this thread from a legal standpoint that would give better guidance to Funsters.

e&oe - usual disclaimer applies!
 
Feb 9, 2008
5,430
6,769
Corby, Northants
Funster No
1,455
MH
Coach Built
Exp
Since 2007
"No camping" is clear enough isn't it? It restricts the activity, the illustration is just that.

Nothing to do with "leeches". We have discussed often enough the fact that land owners don't want their car parks clogged up with campers just because it suits them.
Is there a legal definition of what 'camping' means in the UK, I wonder. Or, do we motorhorme owners wrongly (or rightly) make our own interpretation ? I for one would be interested in the response from Parking Eye.
 
SMC Motorhomes Newark
RoadPro
Johns Cross
Safeguard Motorhome Insurance
Rhino Installs
Friendly professional service from qualified technicians
Free Club Stickers
Top