Overnighting in Yorkshire seaside towns

[TheMobileWanderer]

I like the term "guerrilla parking" it nicely encapsulates the sort of selfish behaviour that is unlikely from MHF members.

I think it's an inaccurate description. Most who park inconsiderately aren't trying to push any viewpoint or agenda or belief. They're just bl**dy inconsiderate: thoughtless: ignorant: entitled, people. They can take their pick as to which adjective(s) may apply to them.

 

[PlacidoD]

I think it's an inaccurate description. Most who park inconsiderately aren't trying to push any viewpoint or agenda or belief. They're just bl**dy inconsiderate: thoughtless: ignorant: entitled, people. They can take their pick as to which adjective(s) may apply to them.

Guerrilla tactics are the actions of usually a minority against "the establishment" which is precisely what those who indulge in it are doing.

Guerrilla: "referring to actions or activities performed in an impromptu way, often without authorization"

There does not have to be a viewpoint or agenda.

 

[GJH]

It's a shame that trials of paid areas are not as well publicised as the issues caused by some of the free-parkers.
Paid approved at the P&R for any seaside town would encourage us to go, at the moment the Yorkshire coast feels unwelcoming and we will go elsewhere.

The Guisborough trial was very well publicised - on here and in other forums and in the motorhome press of the time.
It was a pity, after all the effort that was put in (by those of us asking for it and from the LA), that only about half a dozen people used it (or, at least paid to use it) in 18 months. It certainly wasn't for the lack of publicity.

 

[Rosehip]

The Guisborough trial was very well publicised - on here and in other forums and in the motorhome press of the time.
It was a pity, after all the effort that was put in (by those of us asking for it and from the LA), that only about half a dozen people used it (or, at least paid to use it) in 18 months. It certainly wasn't for the lack of publicity.

ah, I just re-read the date of it - I was still tenting then.
I'm not sure how valid a 15year-old trial is though. Lots has changed since then

 

[GJH]

Useful info GJH . It will be info such as that, which may inform planning and decision-making in other areas. I think if one were to be challenged to improve parking provision for locals and motorhomers alike, it could be taken up by other Councils, once the benefits are attained and visible.
I think the term 'payback' can mean different things to different people or entities. As I understand it, amongst other things, Councils have a responsibility to secure social cohesion and so, if they achieve (or regain) that following a period of uncertainty or unease, that should be 'payback' in accordance with their remit.

I think; if one Council were to achieve a new form of social cohesion which improved the situation for locals and visitors alike then, I would hope, such demonstration of that way forward would make it easier for other Councils to adapt and adopt those new practices.

As I said, there are very wide variations in different towns. That means that what works in one area doesn't necessarily work elsewhere.
I say that from the experience of promoting motorhome facilities for some 13 years between 2006 and 2019 - experience which involved contacting every local authority in the UK on at least 4 occasions. The promotion was mainly daytime parking but also some overnight camping in the later years (including some authorities contacting me for help).

There simply isn't a one size fits all. Each location takes understanding of the needs of both sides and motorhomers who are willing to put in the necessary effort to try to find a mutually beneficial outcome. The shortage tends to be in the latter area as much as in LAs :-(

 

[GJH]

ah, I just re-read the date of it - I was still tenting then.
I'm not sure how valid a 15year-old trial is though. Lots has changed since then

I agree that a lot has changed since then but please see my post above this one, especially the final sentence.

 

[Rosehip]

(cross-posted)

 

[Neilh]

It’s just another place to avoid!!

Scarborough was before any ban

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[JockandRita]

I hope the vast majority would use it, we certainly would.

Sounds ideal

We would as well, especially if like Canterbury, the bus fare was included in the parking charge..........and not to far out of town.

Always amazes me that folks are prepared to pay tens of thousands of pounds for a motorhome or camper van but Baulk at paying for a campsite for the night.

We don't want to pitch up on an expensive Campsite, in the middle of nowhere, where there is no rural bus service, and the only way into town is via a taxi each way. We would however be happy to pay a charge for overnighting, close to a town's amenities and within a short walking distance or bus ride, whether it has basic facilities or not.

Why?

If you don't need to be on an all-singing all dancing site, why would you pay for one?

We pay for campsites when it suits, depending on what we need and where
But:
been doing 50-60 nights per year and that will go up once Husband retires tomorrow ( ) it all adds up. £50 nights @ even £30/night is a lot and the £30 is a long way from top end these days.
We're finding fewer campsites accept one night bookings and some are going to at least 3.
It's getting harder to find no electric on the smaller sites which pushes their price up.
CL/CS's can be a pain to see availability and book on the road if they don't have a website - and many are grass and not open all year.
Why would I want to pay around £45/night to sit and listen to 20 dogs barking and look at a row of white boxes.

I'm sure others can add their reasons.

Well put.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[Loopyxlou]

We recently stayed in Skipton on the motorhome parking. It was well used. We’ve also stayed in Ingleton in their dedicated motorhome parking, again well used. These were set up by Craven district council some years ago, before the amalgamation into North Yorkshire council. So there are examples of good practice in North Yorkshire - just needs to be copied across the region.

 

[Lenny HB]

Always amazes me that folks are prepared to pay tens of thousands of pounds for a motorhome or camper van but Baulk at paying for a campsite for the night.

That really is a stupid statement, what relevance does the price of a van have to do with where you park.

Our van cost quite a bit over £100k, we don't like sites and rarely use them.

We are not rich and as I have said many times the Motorhome was paid for out of life savings but using it comes out of our pensions.

 

[Dfc]

That really is a stupid statement, what relevance does the price of a van have to do with where you park.

Our van cost quite a bit over £100k, we don't like sites and rarely use them.

We are not rich and as I have said many times the Motorhome was paid for out of life savings but using it comes out of our pensions.

That really is a stupid statement, what relevance does the price of a van have to do with where you park.

Our van cost quite a bit over £100k, we don't like sites and rarely use them.

We are not rich and as I have said many times the Motorhome was paid for out of life savings but using it comes out of our pensions.

With all due respect regardless of whatever anyone has paid their vehicle there is no entitlement to pitch up wherever the fancy takes them. Clearly there have been issues on the various sea fronts (not designated MH stop over points) throughout the country. Sounds like the locals and the local authorities are getting fed up of certain elements of MH society taking the proverbial and feeling that they have a right to pitch up where they like.
I agree you don’t have to use sites all the time, we don’t always use sites particularly when abroad. We do use small sites or designated airs or motorhome stopover points where they have proper facilities for waste disposal etc.
Unfortunately motor homers are getting bad press due to the actions of a small minority.

 

[TheMobileWanderer]

With all due respect regardless of whatever anyone has paid their vehicle there is no entitlement to pitch up wherever the fancy takes them.

Quite a lot to unpick there but, OK, I'll have a go
I agree with there being no entitlement though, equally, there should be no justification in removing people's choice by forcing them into a pen or forcing them into extra expense.
The pejorative term 'free-loaders' is just that. I don't pay to park on the road at or near my house so would those who use that term consider me a free-loader?! I doubt it. If they do they would be wrong. I pay my taxes as do most people, so I doubt it's parking for free that is a justifiable criticism.

Sounds like the locals and the local authorities are getting fed up of certain elements of MH society taking the proverbial and feeling that they have a right to pitch up where they like.

Maybe they should express their frustration with Councils for not doing enough to address the matters in each place.
I often see more cars than vans parking wherever they like - often unlawfully - so there must be some other reason for motorhomers getting the criticism. Maybe it's the cumulative effect of several in one place that takes the limelight? (It's not like we can miss the sight of a bunch of vans [if bunch is the collective term lol]).
Though I think it may be a mix of:-
Council inertia: whether they have tried some things or none - results matter more than effort, in my opinion)
snobbishness of some: eeew motorhomes, just go away.
nimbies: yeh, OK, vanners, do your thing but do it somewhere else.
anti-social vanners - yep, said many times before, tarring with one brush is taking the easy option.
disgruntled residents: yes, it's a pita sometimes when a motorhome parks where it does. Not necessarily blocking a view that they would like (and which they can see every day of the year) but, it's been noted that they park without other consideration for other potential parkers. (No Goldilocks gap front and rear yet they get all spiky when someone points it out to them).

I agree you don’t have to use sites all the time, we don’t always use sites particularly when abroad. We do use small sites or designated airs or motorhome stopover points where they have proper facilities for waste disposal etc.
Unfortunately motor homers are getting bad press due to the actions of a small minority.

It certainly seems to be that motorhomers are getting bad press. If only there were still journalists who would research a subject matter before blindly regurgitating one sides agenda without challenging it. (I know; I concede I am becoming a grumpy old git).
Still; I would like others to be able to enjoy their visits around the country exercising their own choice

 

[funflair]

The Guisborough trial was very well publicised - on here and in other forums and in the motorhome press of the time.
It was a pity, after all the effort that was put in (by those of us asking for it and from the LA), that only about half a dozen people used it (or, at least paid to use it) in 18 months. It certainly wasn't for the lack of publicity.

I believe it was before my time as a motorhome owner but living in Guisborough I think I would have been aware if it got used much so I think you are right that it didn't get used payed or not, I think the problem is that just one place in a barren desert doesn't really hit the radar as you can't link it up with other stopovers so if you are going to need a campsite so you might as well go straight there.

Out of interest Graham what restrictions were on the potential stay, was it overnight or daytime parking as well ?

 

[GJH]

I believe it was before my time as a motorhome owner but living in Guisborough I think I would have been aware if it got used much so I think you are right that it didn't get used payed or not, I think the problem is that just one place in a barren desert doesn't really hit the radar as you can't link it up with other stopovers so if you are going to need a campsite so you might as well go straight there.

Out of interest Graham what restrictions were on the potential stay, was it overnight or daytime parking as well ?

It was the Fountain Street coach park which was used Martin. The layout has been quite extensively redesigned since then though.
The maximum stay was 18 hours, between 6pm and noon the next day.
At the time there were nowhere near as many stopovers as there are today but it was hoped that it would gain interest from people touring up and down the coast, or having spent the day in the East Cleveland area and wanting to stay the night before moving on.

It was a pity that it didn't get off the ground because a lot of work had gone into it, both from Guisborough resident David Lloyd (who first mooted the idea) and myself and from council officers and executive members.

We did then suggest looking at provision in Redcar as it might prove more popular but, given the failure, it took a long time for the experience to be overcome and for discussions to start on potentially using Majuba for a more comprehensive Aire (which I haven't been involved in). Sadly, that could well be stopped now that boy racer activity means Majuba will now be closed overnight.

 

[pappajohn]

Why?
If you don't need to be on an all-singing all dancing site, why would you pay for one?

Exactly, if you want to stay on a campsite buy a tent.

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[PaulC70]

With all due respect regardless of whatever anyone has paid their vehicle there is no entitlement to pitch up wherever the fancy takes them. Clearly there have been issues on the various sea fronts (not designated MH stop over points) throughout the country. Sounds like the locals and the local authorities are getting fed up of certain elements of MH society taking the proverbial and feeling that they have a right to pitch up where they like.
I agree you don’t have to use sites all the time, we don’t always use sites particularly when abroad. We do use small sites or designated airs or motorhome stopover points where they have proper facilities for waste disposal etc.
Unfortunately motor homers are getting bad press due to the actions of a small minority.

"a right to pitch up where they like" Interesting statement, I guess you are coming at it from the point of view of those that show no respect etc or make a nuisance of themselves, although, just like beauty, that is in the eye of the beholder.

But a different spin, what about those builders building houses wherever they like? Building and buying a house in an area with natural beauty or attractions then expecting others not to want to enjoy?

 

[GJH]

what about those builders building houses wherever they like?

Given current planning laws, anyone building wherever they like, especially in an area with natural beauty or attractions would be highly likely to be told to demolish it and reinstate the land

 

[Proudfeet]

Useful info GJH . It will be info such as that, which may inform planning and decision-making in other areas. I think if one were to be challenged to improve parking provision for locals and motorhomers alike, it could be taken up by other Councils, once the benefits are attained and visible.
I think the term 'payback' can mean different things to different people or entities. As I understand it, amongst other things, Councils have a responsibility to secure social cohesion and so, if they achieve (or regain) that following a period of uncertainty or unease, that should be 'payback' in accordance with their remit.

I think; if one Council were to achieve a new form of social cohesion which improved the situation for locals and visitors alike then, I would hope, such demonstration of that way forward would make it easier for other Councils to adapt and adopt those new practices.

Have you not heard of CAMpRA?

 

[TheMobileWanderer]

Have you not heard of CAMpRA?

Yes; but thank you.

 

[PaulC70]

Have you not heard of CAMpRA?

Im not sure what the point is you are trying to make here?

 

[Imala615]

One council who did take the motorhome parking on board was Fylde , i have been stopping at St Annes for quite a number of years ,originally it was £5 a night with a dedicated car park near the cinema, they now have 5 dedicated parks marked out for motorhomes and north beach has toilets and a sluice (£1) . I stayed there a couple of weeks back and was quite surprised at the price hike £15 a night (paid that for 2 nights a couple of years back ) £25 for 2 nights (20p extra if you use their app) which is the maximum incidentally every space was taken (i got the last one) and this was out of season . there are usually a couple of THS sites in the area which i shall be using in future.

 

[GJH]

One council who did take the motorhome parking on board was Fylde , i have been stopping at St Annes for quite a number of years ,originally it was £5 a night with a dedicated car park near the cinema, they now have 5 dedicated parks marked out for motorhomes and north beach has toilets and a sluice (£1) . I stayed there a couple of weeks back and was quite surprised at the price hike £15 a night (paid that for 2 nights a couple of years back ) £25 for 2 nights (20p extra if you use their app) which is the maximum incidentally every space was taken (i got the last one) and this was out of season . there are usually a couple of THS sites in the area which i shall be using in future.

Fylde was one of the first councils I had discussions with when I started my website back in 2006. At the time they were having problems with people camping overnight. However, when a number of people, separately, approached them with constructive suggestions they were open enough to take them on board, with the result being what we see today.
As regards pricing, the fact that "every space was taken" points to it being a price that the wider market deems acceptable.

 

[Imala615]

As regards pricing, the fact that "every space was taken" points to it being a price that the wider market deems acceptable.

looks like it.

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[Proudfeet]

Im not sure what the point is you are trying to make here?

CAMpRA have been doing what GJH suggested in his post for a few years now! And LA’s are still banning campervans/motorhomes!

 

[GJH]

CAMpRA have been doing what GJH suggested in his post for a few years now! And LA’s are still banning campervans/motorhomes!

Assuming CAMpRA's approach is right (recognising that each case needs treating on its merits) they are to be applauded. Even so, there may well be good reason(s) in some places not to allow overnight camping.
The previously mentioned planning restriction in Scarborough is one.
Competition for usage of car parks (e.g. commuters early morning or late evening) is another which springs to mind.

 

[Proudfeet]

Assuming CAMpRA's approach is right (recognising that each case needs treating on its merits) they are to be applauded. Even so, there may well be good reason(s) in some places not to allow overnight camping.
The previously mentioned planning restriction in Scarborough is one.
Competition for usage of car parks (e.g. commuters early morning or late evening) is another which springs to mind.

I’m sure it is.

 

[PaulC70]

CAMpRA have been doing what GJH suggested in his post for a few years now! And LA’s are still banning campervans/motorhomes!

They've been "campaigning" and unfortunately while to some degree there are successes, to another they are encouraging councils to charge silly amounts for a car park that's already empty overnight, some rubbish car parks that are £20 with bugger all facilities.

What's really needed is some sort of campaign / group that would be representative of motorhomers / campers to educate both users and the public about the use of spaces in a responsible way and the benefits this could bring. This simply doesn't exist though.

 

[Proudfeet]

They've been "campaigning" and unfortunately while to some degree there are successes, to another they are encouraging councils to charge silly amounts for a car park that's already empty overnight, some rubbish car parks that are £20 with bugger all facilities.

What's really needed is some sort of campaign / group that would be representative of motorhomers / campers to educate both users and the public about the use of spaces in a responsible way and the benefits this could bring. This simply doesn't exist though.

Unfortunately, if it’s not paid for, LA’s aren’t interested.

 

[GJH]

What's really needed is some sort of campaign / group that would be representative of motorhomers / campers to educate both users and the public about the use of spaces in a responsible way and the benefits this could bring. This simply doesn't exist though.

Why not start one then? If you don't want to why should anyone else?

Unfortunately, if it’s not paid for, LA’s aren’t interested.

Why should they be? They are not charities and there are expenses involved in setting up and managing Aires.