Overnight Parking in Dover

May 18, 2011
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From: Sue Young at DDC <Sue.Young@DOVER.GOV.UK>
Date: 15 September 2014 15:18:29 BST
To: "miketudor665p@yahoo.co.uk" <miketudor665p@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Motor Home Parking in Dover




Thank you for your e-mail relating to motorhome parking on the sea front in Dover


At its meeting on 11th September 2014, the Dover Joint Transportation Board took the decision to commence the process of introducing an overnight ban, from 6pm to 6am Monday to Sunday, on motor caravans parking on Marine Parade and Waterloo Crescent, Dover and The Beach, Walmer. This process will involve public consultation. At the same time, Parking Services have been directed to look into finding alternative provisions for motor caravans.


The relevant report can be viewed athttp://moderngov.dover.gov.uk/ieListDocuments.aspx?CId=124&MId=1672 . The minutes of the meeting will also be published here in due course.
Mrs. S. Young

Acting Parking Team Leader


Dover District Council

White Cliffs Business Park

Whitfield

Dover

CT16 3PJ


Telephone: (01304) 872459

Fax: (01304) 872445

Email: Parking@dover.gov.uk
 

Bertie Bassett

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Also thank you from us, it's interesting to see that they are looking for alternatives, it wasn't long ago that there would have been a blanket ban and that would have been it. We should thank people like Graham (GJH) who've spent so much time and effort contacting councils and making them aware of the potential business that we all bring.(y)
 
Sep 9, 2011
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Just like to add thank you to it as well as we will be down at dover on the 8th of October
 
Feb 16, 2013
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don't know why you all park in Dover anyway,get yourselves over and save yourself a day, for the sake of twenty minutes you can be in France, not having to get up early to catch a train you can have a leisurely breakfast in gravelines and be ready for the off
 
Aug 14, 2013
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don't know why you all park in Dover anyway,get yourselves over and save yourself a day, for the sake of twenty minutes you can be in France, not having to get up early to catch a train you can have a leisurely breakfast in gravelines and be ready for the off
Yes, that's fine for going south, but for travelling TO the UK our preferred option is to get to / near Calais, have a nice meal and then get a ferry about 22.00 - 23.00. Then we overnight on Dover sea front. That way we are in the UK ready for a long day in the saddle getting up to Cheshire.

J
 
Sep 8, 2010
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Dover District Council will not bother to find an alternative because there is no revenue in it for them. They may say there will be a consultation but it is a forgone conclusion. I have lived in Dover all my life and I have found that the council do not do anything that will not bring in revenue. They are not interested in the opinions of the public they are a law unto themselves. This came about because of one idiot complaining to the paper. Most of the people who live along the seafront have more problems with seagulls and the dover council not emptying bins. The latter causes more problems and rubbish than any motorhomer. If you went into Dover you would see how it has been left to go to rack and ruin. There is no revenue being put into the town at all, one wonders where it all goes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

LARRY99

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Dover District Council will not bother to find an alternative because there is no revenue in it for them. They may say there will be a consultation but it is a forgone conclusion. I have lived in Dover all my life and I have found that the council do not do anything that will not bring in revenue. They are not interested in the opinions of the public they are a law unto themselves. This came about because of one idiot complaining to the paper. Most of the people who live along the seafront have more problems with seagulls and the dover council not emptying bins. The latter causes more problems and rubbish than any motorhomer. If you went into Dover you would see how it has been left to go to rack and ruin. There is no revenue being put into the town at all, one wonders where it all goes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have used the seafront a few times, always parked up the top by the marina so as not to spoil any residents veiws, then I would go into town for a meal ,and as you say , I have noticed how quiet the pubs and restaurants were, seems that the council thinks the local traders don,t need any trade from us motorhomers,,,
 

magicsurfbus

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Maybe it's about time we stopped being subject to 54 year-old legislation, ie Section 29(1) of the Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act 1960. There's been some significant changes in vehicle ownership and holiday making trends since 1960.

I don't suppose it's occurred to Dover council to consider the French model and charge £5 a night for parking on the esplanade, thus earning a bit of revenue for the benefit of its residents?
 

Hymie

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Thanks for this, looking to park overnight on 3rd October but probably give it a miss and stay at the Canterbury P&R instead.

Hymie.
 

magicsurfbus

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..plus you could pay a modest fee to take the P&R bus into Canterbury and spend some of your money in their community instead of in bloody Dover who no longer want us there.

I think we might do the same in a few days' time.
 

GJH

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Dover District Council will not bother to find an alternative because there is no revenue in it for them. They may say there will be a consultation but it is a forgone conclusion. I have lived in Dover all my life and I have found that the council do not do anything that will not bring in revenue. They are not interested in the opinions of the public they are a law unto themselves. This came about because of one idiot complaining to the paper. Most of the people who live along the seafront have more problems with seagulls and the dover council not emptying bins. The latter causes more problems and rubbish than any motorhomer. If you went into Dover you would see how it has been left to go to rack and ruin. There is no revenue being put into the town at all, one wonders where it all goes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have used the seafront a few times, always parked up the top by the marina so as not to spoil any residents veiws, then I would go into town for a meal ,and as you say , I have noticed how quiet the pubs and restaurants were, seems that the council thinks the local traders don,t need any trade from us motorhomers,,,
Maybe it's about time we stopped being subject to 54 year-old legislation, ie Section 29(1) of the Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act 1960. There's been some significant changes in vehicle ownership and holiday making trends since 1960.

I don't suppose it's occurred to Dover council to consider the French model and charge £5 a night for parking on the esplanade, thus earning a bit of revenue for the benefit of its residents?
If there is so much benefit to be gained by Dover Council from overnight camping by motorhomes why not make that case to them (including pointing out areas where the "alternative provisions for motor caravans" might be located) instead of just being negative?

Section 29(1) of the Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act 1960 does not need any changes. The exemption in Para 11 of Schedule 1 gives local authorities all the powers they need to make provision for stopover - but there is no sense at all in them doing so if the costs to their taxpayers are not at least equaled by the benefits.
 

magicsurfbus

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Just give Dover Council's Parking Management Team the telephone number of Canterbury's Parking Management Team?

It may be time that the definitions in the 1960 Caravan Sites legislation are updated so a distinction is drawn between a towed mobile dwelling and one on a fixed chassis with its own motor that can be manouevered and parked like other motor vehicles up to 3.5 tons in weight, and which can be parked overnight in streets or regular car parks.
 

GJH

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Just give Dover Council's Parking Management Team the telephone number of Canterbury's Parking Management Team?
The Canterbury P&R was designed with the stopover as an integral part - rather cheaper than altering a car park.
It may be time that the definitions in the 1960 Caravan Sites legislation are updated so a distinction is drawn between a towed mobile dwelling and one on a fixed chassis with its own motor that can be manouevered and parked like other motor vehicles up to 3.5 tons in weight, and which can be parked overnight in streets or regular car parks.
Why? What difference would it make in practice? There are still the same potential problems/costs of nuisance to residents and use of parking areas for camping.
 
Feb 16, 2013
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cant see many people shopping in Dover if they are parking up at midnight and going at six
 

GJH

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cant see many people shopping in Dover if they are parking up at midnight and going at six
That's part of the point about making the case for each area separately. When we stayed at Canterbury in May we were there for something like 45 hours which included two (spending) trips into the city plus topping up with provisions and fuel before moving on. Much easier to argue a boost to the local economy than somebody just stopping for a few hours.
 

Gorse Hill

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Also thank you from us, it's interesting to see that they are looking for alternatives, it wasn't long ago that there would have been a blanket ban and that would have been it. We should thank people like Graham (GJH) who've spent so much time and effort contacting councils and making them aware of the potential business that we all bring.(y)
Really, how do you work that out they have just closed somewhere for us to park and we should be thankful to the council for not putting a blanket ban in
I have just been to France for the first time, what a massive difference in attitude to M/H everywhere u go there are facities to use.
People/councils are very welcoming to us and been absoult pleasure to come here, unlike the councils back home
You right GJH does do a lot of hard work for us but even he must feel like he's swimming uphill with our lot
Bet you any money they don't find an alternative in IMO there full of shit treating us all like tinkers
 
Feb 16, 2013
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honestly,just don't bother with Dover, get on the tunnel you are in France sooner than you can park up over here, the extra it costs,you for the tunnel you can get back in a couple of days parking for free in Calais and cite Europe or 6 euros at gravelines
 
Aug 14, 2013
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GJH

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Really, how do you work that out they have just closed somewhere for us to park and we should be thankful to the council for not putting a blanket ban in
I have just been to France for the first time, what a massive difference in attitude to M/H everywhere u go there are facities to use.
People/councils are very welcoming to us and been absoult pleasure to come here, unlike the councils back home

You right GJH does do a lot of hard work for us but even he must feel like he's swimming uphill with our lot
Bet you any money they don't find an alternative in IMO there full of shit treating us all like tinkers
As has been posted time and time again, that's because of the different historical development of caravan and motorhome use between here and the continent plus the geographical differences.

Yes, I do feel like I'm swimming uphill sometimes. The reason? Plenty of people are quick to complain but very few will actually put in the effort to make positive approaches to councils providing them with a sound case for spending (their taxpayers') money on facilities for relatively few people.

As John mentioned, Colin Perris is very helpful, I always mention Canterbury in approaches to other authorities. As stated previously, though, Canterbury enjoys a geographic position which few British towns and cities share.

If anyone does want to put some effort in I have set set up a letter template Here which anyone is welcome to use as a starter.
 

magicsurfbus

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Perhaps far better than us pleading individually with English councils about how they might make money, wouldn't it be more effective to point them at examples of French councils who definitely have made money? That would presumably involve someone with a good knowledge of the French language and system finding the necessary evidence.

Maybe we Funsters and other MH industry stakeholders should club together and subsidise a Phd study on the economic multiplier effect of aires de service in France.
 

GJH

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Perhaps far better than us pleading individually with English councils about how they might make money, wouldn't it be more effective to point them at examples of French councils who definitely have made money? That would presumably involve someone with a good knowledge of the French language and system finding the necessary evidence.

Maybe we Funsters and other MH industry stakeholders should club together and subsidise a Phd study on the economic multiplier effect of aires de service in France.
That might work if somebody could find a French council which was roughly equivalent to an English council. Is that likely though? As I understand it, other than large cities French communes are more equivalent to UK parish councils rather than district councils which encompass several towns and villages.

As regards evidence, we each of us know what we spend and the areas we like to go to (and where we would like to see stopovers) without the need for a lot of extra research. Using that knowledge is a simpler proposition isn't it?
 

Bertie Bassett

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Really, how do you work that out they have just closed somewhere for us to park and we should be thankful to the council for not putting a blanket ban in
I have just been to France for the first time, what a massive difference in attitude to M/H everywhere u go there are facities to use.
People/councils are very welcoming to us and been absoult pleasure to come here, unlike the councils back home
You right GJH does do a lot of hard work for us but even he must feel like he's swimming uphill with our lot
Bet you any money they don't find an alternative in IMO there full of shit treating us all like tinkers

Whatever you say.
 

Gorse Hill

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As has been posted time and time again, that's because of the different historical development of caravan and motorhome use between here and the continent plus the geographical differences.

Yes, I do feel like I'm swimming uphill sometimes. The reason? Plenty of people are quick to complain but very few will actually put in the effort to make positive approaches to councils providing them with a sound case for spending (their taxpayers') money on facilities for relatively few people.

As John mentioned, Colin Perris is very helpful, I always mention Canterbury in approaches to other authorities. As stated previously, though, Canterbury enjoys a geographic position which few British towns and cities share.

If anyone does want to put some effort in I have set set up a letter template Here which anyone is welcome to use as a starter.
Graham we do appreciate what you do, however why do we have to go cap in hand all the time to councils (that are paid for by you and me) to provide parking facilities with water and
disposal when having travelled throu France and found the above at lots of places including small villages /towns in the middle of no where with no obvious signs of industry in sight yet the council/parish are financially able to provide and not only that keep them in a clean condition
I find it difficult to believe that in a more wealthy country such as ours we are unable to do the same yet can find the money to send aboard to countries like India in aid or provide interpreters at local social security offices to name but a few
You say relatively few, but over 250,000 seems a quite a few to me many of who have/are paying taxes and have been for many years am not sure it's down to cost more like attitude of councils towards M/H
Am pretty sure having spoken to a number of fellow M/H here in France many would visit the uk if only we could provide adequate facilities for them to use like France/Germany who by the way are very similar to us geographically/historically yet they are able to provide the facilities
 

magicsurfbus

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As regards evidence, we each of us know what we spend and the areas we like to go to (and where we would like to see stopovers) without the need for a lot of extra research. Using that knowledge is a simpler proposition isn't it?
OK, so you, me, and various others each write to (say) Dover council in our best joined-up writing to tell them "If you provide low cost overnight parking for Motorhomes, we promise we'll spend around £x in your community every time we stay". How many of us will have to write to them before they stop thinking "Yeah yeah they would say that wouldn't they."? 10? 100? 1000? More?

On the other hand, MH industry stakeholders approach a prestigious University and commission a thoroughly-executed postgraduate academic research project into the actual recorded economic impact of low cost MH parking in a variety of French communities. The results are published in report format with lots of graphs, tables, charts, and conclusions, and distributed to the parking management teams of every council in the UK for their comments and reactions.

I have a huge regard for what you do GJH, it's real labour of love, but I think we'd need to mobilise bigger guns than just MH owners before anyone in local government will pay any attention. My own local authority not only provides overnight parking for MHs, they also have a new mantra of 'growth and prosperity' - that's the corporate mentality we need to be playing on. It's high time the people who make, sell and service motorhomes in the UK get wise to the fact that more MHs of any nationality on our country's roads is good news for their industry and profits, and get out and do their bit. A delegation of a dozen 'industry' people in suits armed with a well-written report would get far more attention than a rag tag army of middle-aged MH owners in fleecies and cargo trousers.
 

GJH

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Graham we do appreciate what you do, however why do we have to go cap in hand all the time to councils (that are paid for by you and me) to provide parking facilities with water and
disposal when having travelled throu France and found the above at lots of places including small villages /towns in the middle of no where with no obvious signs of industry in sight yet the council/parish are financially able to provide and not only that keep them in a clean condition
I find it difficult to believe that in a more wealthy country such as ours we are unable to do the same yet can find the money to send aboard to countries like India in aid or provide interpreters at local social security offices to name but a few
You say relatively few, but over 250,000 seems a quite a few to me many of who have/are paying taxes and have been for many years am not sure it's down to cost more like attitude of councils towards M/H
Am pretty sure having spoken to a number of fellow M/H here in France many would visit the uk if only we could provide adequate facilities for them to use like France/Germany who by the way are very similar to us geographically/historically yet they are able to provide the facilities
It isn't going cap in hand. It is going saying "We want facilities for a maximum of 250,000 people out of 65 million" - that is 0.4% of the population, very few in relative terms.

Spending on things like overseas development has nothing to do with it. Such policies are national political decisions whilst spending on stopovers are local decisions, from the point of view of national government (of whatever party) the legislation is already in place. We will only achieve change if we show local politicians that it is worth spending local taxpayers' on stopovers. Simply saying "France has got it so we want it" carries no weight at all.

What is this "attitude of councils towards M/H"? The vast majority of councils (and I've been in touch with all of them several times) are constructive towards motorhomes, within the bounds of the overall demands placed upon them. The fact is that they have to balance competing demands and the demands of motorhomers for stopovers are, in the case of many councils, virtually nil. We will only change that by making a positive case.
 
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