options on very small pvc's - can I pick your brains please (1 Viewer)

[Viennese]

WildAx Pulsar??

 

[scotzsue]

Good to hear your thoughts @scottie , thank you. I never used the oven in my larger coachbuilt in 3 years, don't see it changing now!

Good thing we are all different. Hadd the microwave taken out the Mizar as we rarely use one at home, and have never missed one while away. Our full cooker gets used often, especially in the winter, as does the remoska any time of the year. Neither remoska nor microwave would be of any use when off grid, for me full cooker is a godsend. Have often thought of compromises that would need to be made if we downsized though and have decided I could cope much better without an oven and microwave than I could without a toilet compartment. Can't wait to see the finished article.

 

[Debs]

@CWH when are you expecting to take delivery Wendy?

It's been great reading this thread btw

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[Viennese]

Mmm you didn't deny WildAx Pulsar, and it does have a wheel on the back!!

 

[CWH]

decided I could cope much better without an oven and microwave than I could without a toilet compartment

Errm... Yes I have to agree with you on that!

@CWH when are you expecting to take delivery Wendy?

It's been great reading this thread btw

They haven't even got the van yet Debs. Once they have it, they take a week to build and another week to test it.
It's been a brilliant thread hasn't it? I continue to be amazed at how much advice & information people offer on this wonderful Forum. Downsizing by 2 metres turns me into a complete newbie and I'm not sure I'd have had the confidence to do it if I hadn't known how much support I can count on from Funsters.

Mmm you didn't deny WildAx Pulsar, and it does have a wheel on the back!!

I was away!!! (chatting with my dad, not snoozing in the sun). Meanwhile - I deny EVERYTHING for now.

 

[Anthea M]

It's all very exciting and I can't wait to hear of your travels and see photos!!

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[hilldweller]

the 80 w panel matches the 100 amp battery. There's no space on the roof for any more than the 80 w so I've ordered a second leisure battery. Seems the 3 batteries will look after each other.

This seems a constant theme on here, add another battery without working out how to charge it.

Some numbers, bright Spanish sun and you might get 80/12= 6A ( very rough ).
Half empty 100Ah battery as is the norm, you need 50Ah.
You have 6A so 50/6=8hours of good sunshine.

Now you add a second battery so the numbers are 100/6=16hours. So way over a day to recharge.

What I am saying is you can fit 10 batteries but all the electricity you have, parked up, is the 80W of solar.

If you drive a lot the picture changes as the engine does some charging, it depends on your lifestyle.

As a matter of interest we have 100Ah and 100W of solar and if we have to charge the bikes when off hook it gets very very tight.

 

[CWH]

Never thought to ask about moving

Don't know how big the solar panel is, but seems it must be as big as the roof!... I was surprised there wasn't room for more solar, & I did push it after everybody's advice on here, but he was adamant there's no space.

 

[CWH]

This seems a constant theme on here, add another battery without working out how to charge it.

Some numbers, bright Spanish sun and you might get 80/12= 6A ( very rough ).
Half empty 100Ah battery as is the norm, you need 50Ah.
You have 6A so 50/6=8hours of good sunshine.

Now you add a second battery so the numbers are 100/6=16hours. So way over a day to recharge.

What I am saying is you can fit 10 batteries but all the electricity you have, parked up, is the 80W of solar.

If you drive a lot the picture changes as the engine does some charging, it depends on your lifestyle.

As a matter of interest we have 100Ah and 100W of solar and if we have to charge the bikes when off hook it gets very very tight.

You're right Brian I don't really understand the electrics, I keep trying but it just doesn't go in. But I was fairly sure I'd understood that I'd probably be ok with the 80 w as I'm not planning to be static for long (maybe a few meets).
I'm assuming - and I'd be very grateful if you'd put me right - that I can charge all 3 batteries through travelling, then I have 2 leisure batteries' worth of electricity that would last me a couple or so days?
I don't want to put in the second leisure battering it's of no use.

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[Infinity31]

I get 2-3 days usage from my Waeco CD50, a compressor fridge, from a 110ah battery. That's taking into account other usage which is minimal just lighting (led) charging phone etc.
With two batteries and 80w solar I'd say you'd fine for the time you plan to be off grid.

It is worth noting that an alternator is not a battery charger and it cannot fully charge a battery, no matter how long you drive the vehicle for.
It's main purpose is to supply the vehicles electrical equipment when the engine is running. To fully charge and condition the batteries you need to be on hookup and let the charger do it's stuff.
Once a month is recommended, This will give better performance from your batteries and should extend the service life.

 

[mitzimad]

It is worth noting that an alternator is not a battery charger and it cannot fully charge a battery, no matter how long you drive the vehicle for.
It's main purpose is to supply the vehicles electrical equipment when the engine is running. To fully charge and condition the batteries you need to be on hookup and let the charger do it's stuff.
Once a month is recommended, This will give better performance from your batteries and should extend the service life.

that explains why my van battery has failed after 7 years never been charged. Dont know why ive been dragging an alternator around all that time

 

[Infinity31]

that explains why my van battery has failed after 7 years never been charged. Dont know why ive been dragging an alternator around all that time

So CTEK, Stirling, Victron et al are conning us with their intelligent chargers and solar products as we need is an alternator.

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[DBK]

So CTEK, Stirling, Victron et al are conning us with their intelligent chargers and solar products as we need is an alternator.

Those type of charger are needed because solar works all the time and a vehicle could be on EHU for months. However, an alternator only works when the engine is running but given enough time it can certainly recharge all the batteries. How do you think the vehicle battery in non-MHs is kept charged?

 

[Infinity31]

Those type of charger are needed because solar works all the time and a vehicle could be on EHU for months. However, an alternator only works when the engine is running but given enough time it can certainly recharge all the batteries. How do you think the vehicle battery in non-MHs is kept charged?

The alternator is capable of replacing the small amount energy used in starting the vehicle. It's not designed to charge and condition a fully depleted leisure battery.

 

[hilldweller]

You're right Brian I don't really understand the electrics

I don't want to put in the second leisure battering it's of no use.

OK, the easy way to explain electricity is with water.

Your solar hosepipe can deliver ( at best ) 6 gallons an hour. ( 80W panel )
Your battery tank can hold 100 gallons but you can use only 50 gallons or risk damaging the tank.
So your tank is half empty and the water arrives with daybreak and 50 / 6 = 8 hours later your tank is full.

Now the guesswork, you use your water at 6 gallons and hour all night ( TV, light, heating, fridge, laptop ) and 8 hours you're down to half full.

The above is perfectly balanced - water in = water out over 24hrs. Happiness.

Next we add a second tank. You have 200 gallons, 100 you can use. You do just the same with 6 gallons out, 50 gallons used but this time you have another 50 gallons spare. Next day storms and no solar, you can use that spare 50 gallons to survive.

Next day sun shines, 8 gallons flows, it delivers 50 gals but since you need 100 for a full fill you are OK for tonight but will be empty again by morning.

Now do you see where you are at with 2 tanks. You get a spare day for emergencies but the solar will never deliver enough to fully charge them again. No point in two tanks if you can't fill them. Fine if you hook up, fine if you drive a long way but on one small solar it's a system out of balance.

Another way of looking at it. Your diesel tank is 100 miles, you know the next filling station is 90 miles away, it works. You decide to fit an extra tank, yippee I can go 200 miles and one day a closed station forces you 200 miles, then the station tells you they can sell you only 100 miles of diesel. Now you are back to square one, only 100 before you need diesel.

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[CWH]

Ooh now my brain hurts. I'll ponder that & get back to you (I may be some time [I have to 'entertain' my dad between times] ) - I'm very grateful for your time and efforts to educate me Brian, I'll try my best to be a successful student : )

 

[hilldweller]

efforts to educate me Brian

But the bottom line is all this depends on sunlight and your usage of electricity so guesswork.

I would buy with one battery and add one later if needs be but even then you fit the second and then find out the, I must say pathetic, 85W panel is not enough.

In a few days we will be at Chester with 100W and 100Ah battery, we will survive the 4/5 days. If I were to improve it I be fitting another panel rather than a battery, it all goes pear shaped if you can't get the electricity in.

Now, let's have a think, a 5.5m van, I think half a meter would take a 100W panel nicely

 

[DBK]

The alternator is capable of replacing the small amount energy used in starting the vehicle. It's not designed to charge and condition a fully depleted leisure battery.

You're moving the goal posts now. It was the statement the alternator can't fully charge the leisure batteries I took issue with. Whether this is the best way to do it is a different issue. My Victron solar controller takes the batteries through a daily charging cycle which the vehicle system won't. However, there are undoubtedly numerous MHs without solar and which are used off EHU and their owners are quite happy with the results they get charging the batteries by going for a drive. It probably shortens the life of the leisure batteries but I wonder by how much?

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[Langtoftlad]

@hilldweller
Your point is well made - but surely only if solar is the only source of charging?
If the vehicle is never moved nor ever plugged in the EHU.

Many people survive a day or two off grid with just one battery.
No solar - relying on their alternator & being plugged in to top up their battery.

Two batteries means twice as long between having to be plugged in, solar means extending that time, even if only by a little in British weather.

Unless wanting to be completely off grid for weeks, most of us both move the van and have a night or two onsite if only to dump/fill & perhaps laundry.

IIRC - It's been generally recommended here that first add an extra battery, then get solar.

 

[Langtoftlad]

However, there are undoubtedly numerous MHs without solar and which are used off EHU and their owners are quite happy with the results they get charging the batteries by going for a drive.
It probably shortens the life of the leisure batteries but I wonder by how much?

An interesting point about the economics of solar.
A solar panel, professionally fitted, is usually around £500
A 100amp leisure battery about £100
Even if you changed one every two years, it would take a decade to recover the cost of a solar panel.

 

[hilldweller]

IIRC - It's been generally recommended here that first add an extra battery, then get solar.

If you listen to and not analise the crap posted on here you will either kill yourself or go mad.

Justify that statement you just made.

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[hilldweller]

A solar panel, professionally fitted, is usually around £500
A 100amp leisure battery about £100

So what.

One generates electricity, the other stores electricity, they are not the same. I suspect a professionally fitted price of a battery would be way above your estimate.

Sorry to have a go at two of your posts but whilst the subject is very active we might as well get it right.

If indeed there is any "right" because it's all down to individual users.

 

[Viennese]

But the bottom line is all this depends on sunlight and your usage of electricity so guesswork.

I would buy with one battery and add one later if needs be but even then you fit the second and then find out the, I must say pathetic, 85W panel is not enough.

In a few days we will be at Chester with 100W and 100Ah battery, we will survive the 4/5 days. If I were to improve it I be fitting another panel rather than a battery, it all goes pear shaped if you can't get the electricity in.

Now, let's have a think, a 5.5m van, I think half a meter would take a 100W panel nicely

HI Brian
I used to take my previous old vans to an annual festival with no ehu or solar panel and spend up to 5 days with no problems, even when it poured down for days. The battery coped fine. My present van has its original leisure battery (4.5 yrs) and I have had no problems with a (supposedly more than pathetic) 80w solar panel*. What exactly do you do in your van to just 'survive' with only one battery and one 100w panel??? Look forward to seeing you both 'surviving'! XXX
* I asked for a 100w panel but Dave Newell fitted 80w as he was out of stock!!!

 

[hilldweller]

to just 'survive' with only one battery and one 100w panel???

I did say "survive" not "just survive".

Though what can kill us is off hook and using two e-bikes. The two bikes can take all the usable electricity out of one 100Ah battery. So some would jump in and say "fit another battery" and they would be totally wrong because that solar can barely charge one 100Ah battery on a good day. In fact it will not fully charge 100Ah on most British days. The better solution would be two solar panels and charge the e-bikes as much as possible in daylight.

Funnily enough I saw The Light in Chester years ago, so cold the ambulances were on the field regularly treating brass monkeys. No solar and we were flat after 2/3 days. It was the heater that tipped us over the edge. So I invested all of £170 in 100W of solar.

Usually we watch a film in the evening with or without heat depending on weather. Some computing use.

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[Langtoftlad]

If you listen to and not analise the crap posted on here you will either kill yourself or go mad.
Justify that statement you just made.

Seriously ?
I don't have to "justify" anything
but
http://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/extra-battery-and-or-solar-panel.140434/

So what.

One generates electricity, the other stores electricity, they are not the same. I suspect a professionally fitted price of a battery would be way above your estimate.

Sorry to have a go at two of your posts but whilst the subject is very active we might as well get it right.

If indeed there is any "right" because it's all down to individual users.

So what?
Post was in reference to @John Laidler post about the merits or otherwise of different changing methods
I don't think I'm far out with my estimate of replacing a battery .
Indeed I know the price the OP's converter charges for an additional battery .

I'm sure you think your right is the correct right, Brian, but others may have alternative opinions.
All depends on an individual's needs & usage.

 

[CWH]

OK, I've carefully read the various posts on here, and even asked my dad to help explain watts/ amps/ ampere hours/ volts.
I'm one of those people who need to see the realities and basically learn by experience; I'm banking on your information to help me avoid a DISASTROUS experience!
The way I'm looking at it right now is: If I'm out under cloud:
- if I have more generating capacity it won't help & I have to find a hook-up - or go for a drive.
- if I have more storage capacity I can last longer before I have to drop down out of the mountains (or whatever) and hook up.
Am I right?

Anyhow, in my situation I apparently can't have more than the 80 w unless I go for a 'suitcase' which as a portable accessory is a decision for further down the line.
Brian @hilldweller has explained why this solar wouldn't be much use for topping up 2 batteries, and I now understand that (thank you Brian) but I think I've also understood that 2 batteries would give me longer wandering around off-grid if I'm not relying only on the solar.
Yes or no?

And I still don't get amps & watts.
But I think I'm getting there.

Indeed I know the price the OP's converter charges for an additional battery .

And is it too much or about right Stephen?

 

[Langtoftlad]

And is it too much or about right Stephen?

Well, it's just a little bit more than I paid a local place to have an extra one fitted in my old van... (probably £10+)

• But I'm having one as an option on mine, because it's easier to have it fitted at time of collection,
• it'll be a neater install as the battery box/compartment will be adapted to take two batteries side by side.
• And it's one point of call if any glitches in the electrics, no pointing at third parties

- those are the reasons I'm having their solar too, rather than shopping around for the absolute cheapest deal.

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[CWH]

Well, it's just a little bit more than I paid a local place to have an extra one fitted in my old van... (probably £10+)

• But I'm having one as an option on mine, because it's easier to have it fitted at time of collection,
• it'll be a neater install as the battery box/compartment will be adapted to take two batteries side by side.
• And it's one point of call if any glitches in the electrics, no pointing at third parties

- those are the reasons I'm having their solar too, rather than shopping around for the absolute cheapest deal.

My thoughts too, I'd have put up with a lot more than £10 difference for exactly those reasons. Thanks.