Options being Considered in Fife for the Future of MH Parking - Consultation Paper

[bigtwin]

I have yet to read this but thought folks might be interested in its contents and perhaps inclined to send feedback.

I believe the authors are open to comments until 31 Jan 2020.

Ian

 

[nicholsong]

'File not found'

 

[bigtwin]

'File not found'

B*gge*r!

Help! Jim

Ian

 

[irnbru]

It’s there, I’ve been reading it. Not all against motorhomers however I think £10 a night to park at Ruby bay is a bit much without facilities. I will finish reading later and reply when I get back home.

 

[monzer]

It doesn't show figures for last year but the un-permitted overnight stays for those places for 2018 aren't really that high. OK one place had 15 vans one night but usually only hitting 2 and 3's. I'd hardly class that as excessive.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[WillH]

Very interesting read. The report is thorough and clearly states that it is only a minority of motorhomers who foul the areas with waste. There is, as recognised in the report, a growing problem in Fife.

They said that from one car park along there was lost revenue of over £23k, had all the campers used local sites. My feeling, having been to St. Andrews last year, is that local sites would not have the capacity to accommodate all the vans, even should the campers be willing to pay. I stayed on a site and all the touring pitches were taken all week.

It shall be interesting to see the outcome if any, considerable investment is needed in infrastructure before the car parks can be properly regulated.

 

[bigtwin]

It’s there, I’ve been reading it. Not all against motorhomers however I think £10 a night to park at Ruby bay is a bit much without facilities. I will finish reading later and reply when I get back home.

It doesn't show figures for last year but the un-permitted overnight stays for those places for 2018 aren't really that high. OK one place had 15 vans one night but usually only hitting 2 and 3's. I'd hardly class that as excessive.

Yes, I did a quick calculation and thought the average number per night wasn’t that high. However some of the peaks might be considered excessIve.

It does contain an erroneous, but common, assumption that all of these nights result in lost revenue to campsites. That is simply not the case and needs to be refuted.

Ian

 

[bigtwin]

It’s there, I’ve been reading it. Not all against motorhomers however I think £10 a night to park at Ruby bay is a bit much without facilities. I will finish reading later and reply when I get back home.

Ahh, relief. I’d been looking to see if I could convert the file to a MS Word document to try that.

Ian

 

[Lenny HB]

They said that from one car park along there was lost revenue of over £23k, had all the campers used local sites.

They just don't get it do they. Most of the Motorhomes that wild or use low cost Aires are not going to stay on a campsite at £26 a night.

 

[bigtwin]

I have yet to read this but thought folks might be interested in its contents and perhaps inclined to send feedback.

I believe the authors are open to comments until 31 Jan 2020.

Ian

I received the file from this chap:

Robbie Blyth​

Head of Operations - Fife Coast and Countryside Trust​

Email: robbie.blyth@fifecountryside.co.uk​

The consultation paper provides this e-mail address:

ask.us@fifecountryside.co.uk​

Ian

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[bigtwin]

They just don't get it do they. Most of the Motorhomes that wild or use low cost Aires are not going to stay on a campsite at £26 a night.

No, but that’s why it’s important for us to point that out and to detail our (simple) needs.

Ian

 

[nicholsong]

They just don't get it do they. Most of the Motorhomes that wild or use low cost Aires are not going to stay on a campsite at £26 a night.

Correct, and I am one.

But these people also do not realise that some of us do not want to stay cheek-by-jowl with others and have footballs kicked against our powder-coating, or other neighbours habits.

I wonder where the same Councillors will be standing when they are considering new applications for campsites in competition to the existing ones, which could bring down the existing prices.

Geoff

 

[PeteH]

You need adobe acrobat to read the File.

Makes "interesting" reading. And highlights the perennial problem that raises every time!. The minority who by their appalling selfish behaviour, create most of the issues. I applaud their idea of proactively approving licencing third parties, (CL-CS style), which would take some load off. The "elephant in the room" is of course going to be the Fee level!.

The (miss) statement about proximity, is largely an Urban Myth. In my experience, albeit now some years old, There have been no recorded cases of fire spread on Continental "aires" where many times it would be difficult to get the obligatory "fag paper" between units!. It`s not satisfactory I agree. But overnight we have often had to put up with hardly room to open the `van door!.

Much as many would like to have "open range" access, on this small island, it is never going to be possible. Even in the USA there are restrictions on access to BLM and State land and rules for it`s use, and they have vast area`s of "wild" land!. Open use of existing facilities. Will never be solved until the anti social aspects of the activities of the so called "Travelling People" is dealt with conclusively. And the filthy behaviour of what I call the "Great British Unwashed", is similarly dealt with!.

A point made, it also valid. The use of chemicals in our toilet systems is not compatible with rural sewage methods, leading to the expense of unblocking and clean-up. I note one idea proposed is (Charged For) separate dedicated Points?.

One Idea, which would be very unpopular with big site owners you can bet!. Would be to make their licences conditional on them providing a small percentage of "simple" pitches, for short term (overnight) use, at a fixed fee, commensurate with local Parking charges.

 

[MisterB]

Would it be possible for response to be sent from a forum that has 40k members? It would certainly lend more weight to the argument and potentially put this forum in the knowledge base of local councils who produce such documents for consultation? Can anyone summarise the main questions and post them, asking for yes/no/agreed answers? I would be happy to collate responses. It's a lot easier to collate and respond to the consultation with yes/no responses. Just allow a comment of no more than 20 words to be added, again so a summary of additional comments can be added?

 

[jongood]

They just don't get it do they. Most of the Motorhomes that wild or use low cost Aires are not going to stay on a campsite at £26 a night.

And to have booked it the previous year!

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[jongood]

Ive only skimmed so far, but are they talking about a scheme like in NZ?
That works really well.

 

[sallylillian]

What I find intriguing is that the major European countries have Aires, Stellplatz etc by the bucket load ranging from simple areas in car parks to serviced dedicated spaces and yet here we are in the UK examining the issue like reinventing the wheel. Germany has motorhome tour routes. It perhaps requires a national approach to the subject and the need to see motorhome owners as visitors rather than some kind of parasite that needs vaccination. Sure as stated there are those that abuse the opportunity but this is the case in almost any walk of life.
Michael

 

[jongood]

Tot

What I find intriguing is that the major European countries have Aires, Stellplatz etc by the bucket load ranging from simple areas in car parks to serviced dedicated spaces and yet here we are in the UK examining the issue like reinventing the wheel. Germany has motorhome tour routes. It perhaps requires a national approach to the subject and the need to see motorhome owners as visitors rather than some kind of parasite that needs vaccination. Sure as stated there are those that abuse the opportunity but this is the case in almost any walk of life.
Michael

totally agree, the Kiwis control their excellent system through the NZMCa an organisation totally set up to represent mh's not like the profiteering caravan club we re lumbered with.

 

[PeteH]

What I find intriguing is that the major European countries have Aires, Stellplatz etc by the bucket load ranging from simple areas in car parks to serviced dedicated spaces and yet here we are in the UK examining the issue like reinventing the wheel. Germany has motorhome tour routes. It perhaps requires a national approach to the subject and the need to see motorhome owners as visitors rather than some kind of parasite that needs vaccination. Sure as stated there are those that abuse the opportunity but this is the case in almost any walk of life.
Michael

You raise a point which has been raised, here and elsewhere, many times. The "Aires and Stellplatz. where introduced in an era before the current drive to remove all private vehicle use off the planet in the interests of the so called "green option". You can be sure that very, very, few NEW Aires or Stellpaltz will be built any time soon. For the UK we start from a much lower point of view, and have a Huge Mountain of bureaucratic Bull Shite to climb!, before we even start!.

Its not that we should not try. But holding your breath is not recommended!. I beleive, for example, the last attempt at a Petition, got pathetically few "votes", despite the alleged overwhelming "need" espoused on many Forums etc;.

 

[jongood]

You raise a point which has been raised, here and elsewhere, many times. The "Aires and Stellplatz. where introduced in an era before the current drive to remove all private vehicle use off the planet in the interests of the so called "green option". You can be sure that very, very, few NEW Aires or Stellpaltz will be built any time soon. For the UK we start from a much lower point of view, and have a Huge Mountain of bureaucratic Bull Shite to climb!, before we even start!.

Its not that we should not try. But holding your breath is not recommended!. I beleive, for example, the last attempt at a Petition, got pathetically few "votes", despite the alleged overwhelming "need" espoused on many Forums etc;.

I disagree, we are frequently encountering new aires, spain is particularly active to encourage more tourism.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[PeteH]

I disagree, we are frequently encountering new aires, spain is particularly active to encourage more tourism.

Assuming you are correct, and the new Aires are not just replacements for closed ones. something I know has happened in the past?, then I welcome it. The ethos in "continental" countries is however far different to that of the Bureaucratically Constipated and short sighted views of UK authorities.

The nearest you get in Blighty, is to "Ban" everything!. Put up a barrier (cheap), job sorted, Until of course one of our "Travelling Fraternity" pitches up with the "skill saw" and cuts it down!. At which point they go into meltdown, as no one wants to be accused of being "racist". So local "vandals" get blamed!. Until the local population are comfortable with the idea of "tourist" Aires, they will be perceived at local level every time as being "traveller" sites, and the fear of theft and vandalism that follows!. The Fife initiative is welcome, but I fear most likely doomed, would you like one next door?.

 

[sallylillian]

I disagree, we are frequently encountering new aires, spain is particularly active to encourage more tourism.

Exactly my experience, and they are for the most part new additional ones.

 

[RustyRuss]

As a newbie to Motorhoming it strikes me that our collective voice needs to be heard in the potential legislation that is going to be enforced upon us.

I have read the consultation document above, and although I now live in England and only have limited MH experience (and only in England as yet) I have spent many happy holiday times in the areas highlighted as a youth in my Mum & Dad’s touring caravan. Fifers welcome tourists and their money with open arms! They want us to visit, this document proves they are trying to find a solution to a difficult problem and most importantly, make it as self financing as possible so it isn’t a burden on the locals. I suspect other Scottish Councils will be watching, ready to implement Fife’s solution. Places like Loch Lomond, The Trossachs, the west coast and the NC500.

Do we want legislation that will effectively ban wild camping?

I noted with interest that there are 40,000 ish members of this forum, even if the membership is only half of that then we have a significant voice that must be heard.

An earlier poster suggested a survey of our thoughts on this, and presumably other issues that we face when out enjoying our country, could the committee take this forward so that we can create an effective lobbying voice?

Thanks for listening! All positive criticism welcomed!

Cheers!

RustyRuss

 

[tonyidle]

We may not have 'aires' as such but we do have a very large number of cl / cs sites which, although very often not near towns, offer camping at reasonable rates. My use of aires has always been as a single night stop en route to my destination and not as a holiday in themselves. The nearest equivalent in the UK is a decent layby or motorway services both of which I use.

 

[bigtwin]

Would it be possible for response to be sent from a forum that has 40k members?

I noted with interest that there are 40,000 ish members of this forum, even if the membership is only half of that then we have a significant voice that must be heard.

An earlier poster suggested a survey of our thoughts on this, and presumably other issues that we face when out enjoying our country, could the committee take this forward so that we can create an effective lobbying voice?

I dont think that there is time for that - I understand that responses are required by 30 Jan so would urge folks to submit their own responses.

nicholsong irnbru monzer WillH Lenny HB PeteH MisterB jongood sallylillian Jim tonyidle

Ian

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[irnbru]

I will get onto it now. Thanks for the reminder

 

[jongood]

We may not have 'aires' as such but we do have a very large number of cl / cs sites which, although very often not near towns, offer camping at reasonable rates. My use of aires has always been as a single night stop en route to my destination and not as a holiday in themselves. The nearest equivalent in the UK is a decent layby or motorway services both of which I use.

Too remote for our requirements. We use aires predominantly to visit places so CLs dont do it especially with the 5/6 mh limit

 

[irnbru]

We may not have 'aires' as such but we do have a very large number of cl / cs sites which, although very often not near towns, offer camping at reasonable rates. My use of aires has always been as a single night stop en route to my destination and not as a holiday in themselves. The nearest equivalent in the UK is a decent layby or motorway services both of which I use.

I have now sent a reply to the council and included this point above. Also have linked to the Aire at St Annes and also pointed out £10 a night at Ruby bay PLUS cassette emptying fees is too high a charge for a car park.

Thats me done my bit, cmon folks can you get behind this and write an email. whether you plan to visit the area or not.. Whats a few minutes of your time. You never know where it might lead .

 

[hblewett]

I will send a response to this consultation. Also, I want to 'watch' this topic - is there any way of doing so other than by contributing to it? If there is, I'm obviously not bright enough to find it!

 

[funflair]

I will send a response to this consultation. Also, I want to 'watch' this topic - is there any way of doing so other than by contributing to it? If there is, I'm obviously not bright enough to find it!

Just click “watch” at the top

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}