Not charging on hookup (1 Viewer)

[GyroPilot]

Hi, I attach a pic of my setup.

The leisure battery suddenly stopped charging from hookup. 240v is definitely entering the van.

It continues to charge OK from the engine.

Points to note:

When on hookup, the yellow middle light "Volladen" is lit.
The yellow 20A fuse to the right has melted twice over the past year, without me noticing anything amiss (What does this fuse do, btw?)

Once, I'm sure I briefly regained hookup charging with the following procedure:-

hookup off

engine on

hookup on

engine off

but I don't seem to be able to repeat the trick !

Any suggestions from bright sparks would be welcome

?

 

[SandraL]

I think the las1216 is a second, auxilliary, battery charger.
If the 20amp fuse has popped then I suggest it has been working hard or faulty.
Volladen translates as full load, so suggests its working hard.
Cant see mains input to las1216. Is it ok?

Can you check dc voltage on output terminals on las1216? With mains on and off.

Assume main electroblock has dc charger as well. Is there mains on its input plug? Careful with that multimeter! Is it charging? Once again check dc voltage with mains on and off. Try to check each charger individually.
ie. Disconnect mains to both chargers, check dc volts, reconnect 1 charger only ,dc volts higher?
Then disconnect mains and try other charger.
Best do above with no other dc charging, solar or engine.

How many batteries connected, how old? Fully charged or flat?

 

[GyroPilot]

Wow, lots of info there, much of it over my head.

The battery is 3 months old Varta N9 225Ah, to replace another which "exploded". Someone told me it would be OK to leave it permanently on hookup....

Now I only charge for a few hours at a time, when I'm actually at the van.

Anyhow the hookup had stopped working when I visited this week. I think the DC volts were showing 11.8v..

A couple of hours engine charging brings it up to showing a maximum 13.2v, settling at about 12.8v when discharging, which then quite quickly falls to about 12.2v., where it stays for quite a while....

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[autorouter]

First, the blue box on the right is a battery charger LAS1216, 16A 3-stage intelligent charger (that's what IUoU means).

Looking at the main Elektroblock (I can't see what model number it is, presumably it's hidden by the mains wire).

The rightmost two fuses are 'Internes Lademodul' (= Internal Charger Module) and 'Zusatz Ladegerat' ( = Auxiliary Charger). The Auxiliary Charger is the box on the right, ie the LAS1216. It is connected to the EBL by a 2-way connector, labelled Zusatz Ladegerat.

If the fuse in the auxiliary charger is melting, then that means the connection at the fuse is bad, causing a resistance, which develops heat. If it was overcurrent, the fuse would blow, so it's not that. It's getting hot just by passing its normal current, so there must be a bad connection. Maybe the connection has finally given up.

So first check the two rightmost fuses as above. For the hookup charging to fail, both chargers would need to be not working or not connecting somehow.

 

[autorouter]

Volladen translates as full load,

In this context it's one of the three charging stages:

Hauptladen = Bulk charge (stage 1)
Volladen = Absorption charge (stage 2)
Erhaltungsladen = Float charge (stage 3)

Does it ever reach the final stage (ie Float Charge)?

 

[GyroPilot]

Thanks

All the Electroblok fuses are fine.

There is power going to the LAS1216, because the centre light is on, when on hookup, although flickering slightlly.

Where can I get another LAS1216, since that appears to be wherein the problem lies?

pics of fuses.

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[GyroPilot]

An old pic of the Electroblok.

After the battery blew in July, I noticed the setting seemed to be on "Gel" [in that pic], so I moved the red slider to "Saure".

The previous owner must have been running it like that forever ! I bought the van in December 2019.

There is a similar slider on the LAS, but for the life of me I cannot see any switch or slider in the slot....

 

[autorouter]

You could send/take the LAS1216 to Apuljack Engineering or A&N Caravans, who repair electronic modules like this. Maybe they will send a refurbished one if you send the faulty one in part-exchange. Or you could send it to the manufacturers Schaudt. OK,they are in Germany, but their service is good and delivery is good too.

But you should be getting some charge from the internal charger. The only reason for fitting the auxiliary charger is that the 18 amp internal charger is not up to charging over 200Ah of battery. It will get there eventually, but it takes a long time. From what you are saying, you get no charge at all on hookup.

The main 50A fuses on the starter and habitation batteries must be OK, because there is charging from the engine, which goes through both of them. So the problem must be in the EBL or wiring somewhere.

 

[GyroPilot]

It appears not to be charging on hookup. Needle stays in the centre, and battery is discharging, according to the LED/USB socket I replaced a Hella with..
Whereas on engine, needle goes 3/4 over and battery charges (somewhat)

There was no problem with hookup charging until this week. Even after the battery blew and was replaced in July, it seemed to continue to work perfectly on hookup.

Any idea of the price of a LAS1216 (or superior - the van is 16 years old).? If reasonable cost, I may as well just purchase one and get it fitted, instead of faffing with postal refurbs, etc.

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[raysalaugh]

You could try A and N caravans at Colwyn Bay that's is one of their areas of expertise.
Not that far from you.

 

[GyroPilot]

I'll give them a ring, but I think they do refurbs by mail only.

For scarcely more I could get a new more recent unit.

Schaudt LAS 1218-2 ab 159,00 € | Preisvergleich bei idealo.de

Bereits ab 159,00 € ✓ Große Shopvielfalt ✓ Testberichte & Meinungen ✓ | Jetzt Schaudt LAS 1218-2 günstig kaufen bei idealo.de

www.idealo.de

 

[autorouter]

I'm not convinced that fixing/replacing the LAS1216 will solve all your problems. The internal charger should be pushing out at least 16 amps, even if the LAS1216 is totally disconnected.

There's one way to test the internal charger. Remove the 'Internes Lademodul' fuse. Measure the voltage between one terminal of the fuse socket and ground. One side of the fuse connects to the habitation battery. In fact it goes via the big 3-way screw terminal block on the back of the EBL. So one measured voltage should be the habitation battery voltage. The other side of the fuse goes to the internal charger module output. When the hookup is connected and the mains is going to the EBL, the charger should be outputting a charging voltage, between 13.0 and 14.8V. If it's not then there's a problem with the internal charger.

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[Kenp]

Another vote for A&N they offered good advice and sorted mine out.

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[GyroPilot]

There's one way to test the internal charger. Remove the 'Internes Lademodul' fuse. Measure the voltage between one terminal of the fuse socket and ground. One side of the fuse connects to the habitation battery. In fact it goes via the big 3-way screw terminal block on the back of the EBL. So one measured voltage should be the habitation battery voltage. The other side of the fuse goes to the internal charger module output. When the hookup is connected and the mains is going to the EBL, the charger should be outputting a charging voltage, between 13.0 and 14.8V. If it's not then there's a problem with the internal charger.

Thanks. I will try this next time I'm at the van, in a few days. Presumably with 240v hookup on?

 

[GyroPilot]

Another vote for A&N they offered good advice and sorted mine out.

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But that is SO intimidating for a clueless noob. They may as well be asking me to dismantle the Space Shuttle ! And they don't take phone calls...

Surely there are trusted mobile sparks or places to take the van?

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[GyroPilot]

OK, done some testing.

When hookup is ON, Volladen light is lit, flickering slightly, as mentioned previously.

I disconnected the wires Batterie +- in the picture

There is about 12.8v across the wires, BUT

when probing their sockets.... NOTHING.

(these two brown/blue wires seem to trace back to Block 3 on the EBL)

There is about 12.6V across the "Zusatz Ladergerat" (Secondary Charger) fuse on the EBL.
(removed fuse, probed one terminal, and earthed on the hab battery neg)

Surely this indicates the LAS is kaput?

 

[Vipar]

I would certainly clean that earth connection up and find out why it’s rusted. Or is it a burn mark?

 

[autorouter]

Surely this indicates the LAS is kaput?

I'm not sure if the LAS is one of those 'too intelligent for its own good' chargers that shuts down if no battery is connected, so maybe that's not a definite conclusion. However not looking good for it.

There is about 12.6V across the "Zusatz Ladergerat" (Secondary Charger) fuse on the EBL.
(removed fuse, probed one terminal, and earthed on the hab battery neg)

This one is more definite. This terminal connects inside the EBL directly to the internal charger (it's an internal version of the LAS1218, similar but without the metal box round it). Assuming the 'Internes Lademodul' fuse is OK, the 12.6V means it's not charging even though it's powered. It should be 13.0V at least, more like 13.6V.

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[GyroPilot]

OK, I have now tested both the charging fuse sockets on the EBL with the engine running.

The voltage on both does indeed rise to 13.2V.

With engine off, and hookup ON, it falls back to about 12.6V (presumably just indicating what is in the battery)

What might that indicate? Maybe a 240V wiring problem from the hookup socket to the EBL?

All 240V appliances are working fine.

 

[GyroPilot]

I have now checked the black plug on the end of the white cable, going into the top of the EBL.

There is definitely about 230V AC going into the EBL.

 

[GyroPilot]

I would certainly clean that earth connection up and find out why it’s rusted. Or is it a burn mark?

It was like that when I got the 16 year old van. It appears to be a good earth.

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[autorouter]

One final test to prove the internal charger isn't working. Measure at the Secondary Charger fuse socket. Then plug in the EHU, plug in the EBL mains lead, slot in the Internal Charger fuse, and measure the Secondary Charger fuse socket again. It should rise if the charger is working. If not, that definitely proves it isn't working.

Inside the charger is a mains fuse (one of those cylindrical glass ones). It is a 2 Amp Slow-blow fuse. On the front panel of the EBL, in the lower right of the writing area, that's what the '2AT' means.

To replace the fuse, I had to take off the EBL casing, and look for the fuse in the circuit board that is the internal charger.

If you do this, I hope you have better luck than me. I put in a new fuse, put it all back together, and when I switched on, I heard a crackling sound, and thin wisps of smoke curled up from the inside of the EBL. I pulled out the mains plug, and haven't used it since. I got a Victron 15A charger feeding into the 2-way Secondary Charger input, and that's been enough for my needs so far.

 

[GyroPilot]

OK,thanks.

Hookup off, both fuses removed.

Secondary charger fuse voltage, 11.9V

Hookup on, internal charger fuse inserted.

Secondary charger fuse voltage, 11.9V


Sounds like the EBL charger is kaput? The LAS may be OK?

I'm not competent to take this to bits looking for an internal fuse, and sounds like you didn't get the desired results, anyhow.!

How about introducing another charger to charge the battery, while I ponder my next move....

...which sounds like the mail-order route, which I think I will put off until after the winter.

 

[autorouter]

Sounds like the EBL charger is kaput? The LAS may be OK?

Mains is going in, battery is connected, but no evidence of charging, so yes, kaput.

You can do a similar test for the LAS. Remove the internal charger fuse, insert the secondary charger fuse, power up the LAS and do similar voltage measurements at the fuse socket.

If you're going to get a charger to feed into the EBL LAS 2-way socket, 18A is about the limit for those connector pins. Anything bigger can be wired directly to the battery, but that will bypass the shunt resistor inside the EBL so it won't be accounted for by the EBL charge monitoring bit. No functional problem, just an annoyance.

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[GyroPilot]

Happy to say it seems all sorted, but cost a lot to fix (good job I got the van for a song!). New alternator and new engine battery (replacing one only 1 month old) were also required.

Plaudits:
A&N Caravan Services, North Wales. Very quick turnaround over Christmas, reasonably priced, Martin was very helpful, despite them frowning on phone calls. He even learned something about my particular Electroblock, which at first he thought was mismatched somehow with the secondary charger, and was prepared to acknowledge a gap in his knowledge, when evidence was produced that the setup, although rare was correct..

A2B Vehicle Repairs, Prees, Shropshire. Adam is a very helpful and accommodating young man. Very reasonably priced for general repairs and general advice is gratis (does not do gas, but knows a good guy who does)

Avoid:
an outfit near Dutton, Cheshire which also deals in SatNav. Charged me an arm-and-a-leg to simply take out and re-install the repaired chargers. Overcharged me, from the original quote. Tried to encourage me to break the lock down. Tried to charge me for 5 minutes advice on how to operate a gas generator. Re-installed the charger so the lights were now facing the wall (go figure!). Lost a screw. Failed to electrically re-connect the water pump.... Moneygrubbers.

Everything running sweetly now on a Honda 1.0 gas generator.

Except the Dometic fridge, which seems to have died. Anyone know where to go for a fix?
Van located in Shropshire. Nice open farm storage for just £300 a year. CCTV, owners on site. Come and go as you please, with barrier fob. Cassoa Gold.

 

[Cheshirecat57]

Happy to say it seems all sorted, but cost a lot to fix (good job I got the van for a song!). New alternator and new engine battery (replacing one only 1 month old) were also required.

Plaudits:
A&N Caravan Services, North Wales. Very quick turnaround over Christmas, reasonably priced, Martin was very helpful, despite them frowning on phone calls. He even learned something about my particular Electroblock, which at first he thought was mismatched somehow with the secondary charger, and was prepared to acknowledge a gap in his knowledge, when evidence was produced that the setup, although rare was correct..

A2B Vehicle Repairs, Prees, Shropshire. Adam is a very helpful and accommodating young man. Very reasonably priced for general repairs and general advice is gratis (does not do gas, but knows a good guy who does)

Avoid:
an outfit near Dutton, Cheshire which also deals in SatNav. Charged me an arm-and-a-leg to simply take out and re-install the repaired chargers. Overcharged me, from the original quote. Tried to encourage me to break the lock down. Tried to charge me for 5 minutes advice on how to operate a gas generator. Re-installed the charger so the lights were now facing the wall (go figure!). Lost a screw. Failed to electrically re-connect the water pump.... Moneygrubbers.

Everything running sweetly now on a Honda 1.0 gas generator.

Except the Dometic fridge, which seems to have died. Anyone know where to go for a fix?
Van located in Shropshire. Nice open farm storage for just £300 a year. CCTV, owners on site. Come and go as you please, with barrier fob. Cassoa Gold.

The “outfit” at Dutton is FALCON
5 miles from where I live, but not impressed when I wanted some work doing and the quote pricess was like pulling teeth. The owner does most of the shows and is quite full of himself