Norton (1 Viewer)

[Peppadog]

I read recently that the father of F1 driver Lance Stroll is investing in AM.
Companies only go bust when they run out of cash. Looks like AM will soon have some more. Its been the same with them since I can remember.

 

[Peppadog]

John Bloor is the exception with Triumph. He has made a great success of them. When I bought my Bonny when first re-launch in 2000, it was said he had by then invested £100m into to Triumph. I think most think he deserves his reward.

 

[Coastal Cruiser.]

No. But the receiver divisions of firms like kpmg are ruthless on behalf of whoever authorised them. They have the right to always take their costs out first!

Use to enjoy the receivers letters when they were trying to recover the £200k that I was owed by two firms that had gone bust.
We have managed to recover this and that blah, blah and here’s a breakdown of cost,, £400 an hour for some and I think the cheapest was about £190 an hour!!
I know they have a job to do but

Needless to say never got a penny back.

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[bigtwin]

No. But the receiver divisions of firms like kpmg are ruthless on behalf of whoever authorised them. They have the right to always take their costs out first!

If that were not the case, I suspect the queue of firms lining up to take on the job would be extremely short!

Ian

 

[Peppadog]

Use to enjoy the receivers letters when they were trying to recover the £200k that I was owed by two firms that had gone bust.
We have managed to recover this and that blah, blah and here’s a breakdown of cost,, £400 an hour for some and I think the cheapest was about £190 an hour!!
I know they have a job to do but

Needless to say never got a penny back.

Ouch

 

[PhilG]

Now that sounds spot on.

As I remember it he was on a loser from day one. He bought Norton and the new brilliant engine design from, I think, Canada. But what he got was an unworkable engine.

So he got stuck in and got the mechanics sorted out working out of rented sheds at Donington race track. It was a real B grade engine, with push rods. Most living people have never heard of push rods. They sold some bikes, all hand made and labour intensive then all of a sudden Norton moves to Donington hall to set up manufacturing at a most unlikely venue.

Vanity fits that pretty well.

This is typical of how many businesses fail. Bloke with money comes in and buys a name, and doesnt do due diligence on the engineering. Everyone gets caught up in the 'wave of emotion' , and before you know it the PR machine is in full swing, and folk want to throw money at it.

In the mean time, a few folk see a chance to gamble big with other folks money, and piss peoples pension pots into the wind, along with some government money. After all Triumph and Royal Enfield have done it , right?

John Bloor has made a small fortune building motorcycles in my home town, because he started off with a great big one, from his building company. He worked hard to build profitable bikes , that folk could afford, and went from there, now they have a great range , and a brand that actually rivals the original name . It was touch and go for a bit when they went through the crash, but they get it.

Royal Enfield are shipping bikes back from India , that we sent them the tooling for cos nobody wanted in back in the 60's.. they have an R&D department here in the UK, and i am lucky enough to have a couple of good friends who test the fleet. They are building on a solid base.

Norton just seems to have been all wind and piss, trying to launch numerous models without the wherewithal to see it through, running a race team, that didnt pay folk, running out of a Stately Home. My mate who rode for them lived there for a year, which was a far cry from the sofa surfing he used to do , staying on mine more than once in 2005. But there wasnt enough to back it up.

There was a big hoo ha with Chris Walker being part of it, but that went quiet, then they went after McGuinness, who declined to race as he was injured, but i think the reality was , he wasnt risking his neck and not getting paid, which is what has been rumoured.

Its a shame, but there will be folk there who saw it coming and got out, and those that beleived the hype and didnt.

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[Enword]

Not sure this will play, Outrageous If this is true!!

 

[hilldweller]

Not sure this will play, Outrageous If this is true!!

That's putting it mildly.

But you sure have to wonder why anyone would pay that much for one. Surely Ducati at half the price is so much better.

 

[tonyidle]

I've never understood the 'brand loyalty' thing. Once the original company, the one with the racing history, and its products are gone you are left with the tank badge. From then on it could be stuck on anything. What has that got to do with an original British company and its history?

I have to declare a total non-interest in British bikes and in parallel twins in particular. I had British (Norton funnily enough) singles and even a solitary Tiger Cub along with my first love - strokers. Couldn't wait for the Japanese to make decent ones. They did and I bought one. Never looked back.

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[Enword]

Not good.

Taken for a ride: how Norton Motorcycles collapsed amid acrimony and scandal

Exclusive: Guardian/ITV investigation reveals how pension holders, customers and staff lost out

www.theguardian.com

 

[LesW]

That's putting it mildly.

But you sure have to wonder why anyone would pay that much for one. Surely Ducati at half the price is so much better.

Image is often everything in motorcycling.. 'better' has nothing to do with it.

Look at how many people ride Harleys.. a dreadful bike.. (well the Dynaglide I rode was), but each to their own etc, it's only money.

 

[Commando73]

I've owned five Nortons, And have enjoyed every minute riding them. I rode my 1955 Dominator 99 UBJ490 down to Hackney in London to the 59 club 30 odd years ago, rode to John O Groats and round what is now the NC500, 30 odd years ago and hardly saw another vehicle on the road. Lake district and all over the shop. Used my bikes as everyday transport too.
The engines were easy to repair and fairly reliable once set up right.

I've followed Nortons fortunes over the years with hope and then dismay. It felt great watching Trevor Nation racing the rotary. A real shame that this once great engineering company is in the state it's in.
I've loved British bikes since I was a teenager and have ridden them as everyday transport, from my 1959 T20 Road Cub HSY102 engine and frame no.T67502, through a 49 D1 Bantam, Royal Enfield 250 Continental GT, Tiger 100 cafe racer, Norton Big Four, Norton 16H, two '55 Dominator cafe racers Triumph Trident to my present 73 750 Commando.I just sold an Indian Chieftain with 100w sound system, heated seat and grips, 1181cc V Twin, central locking hard panniers and all. Comfortable and powerful, but not as much soul, for me, a Norton.
and hope one day the Norton name will do as well.

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[olley]

Interview with Stuart tiller in superbike interesting.

SuperBike Magazine | Riding and reviewing motorcycles since ages ago | SuperBike Magazine

SuperBike Magazine. Motorcycle news, reviews, racing chit-chat and anything else motorbike related

www.superbike.co.uk

 

[hilldweller]

Norton Motorcycles – was it a fraud from the start? Part one | SuperBike Magazine

You’re about to read the first in a series of interviews relating to the Norton story. The story is not a good one for the UK motorcycle industry.

www.superbike.co.uk

 

[hilldweller]

Interview with Stuart tiller in superbike interesting.

SuperBike Magazine | Riding and reviewing motorcycles since ages ago | SuperBike Magazine

SuperBike Magazine. Motorcycle news, reviews, racing chit-chat and anything else motorbike related

www.superbike.co.uk

Beat me to it. What a bastard.

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[tonyidle]

I've owned five Nortons, And have enjoyed every minute riding them. I rode my 1955 Dominator 99 UBJ490 down to Hackney in London to the 59 club 30 odd years ago, rode to John O Groats and round what is now the NC500, 30 odd years ago and hardly saw another vehicle on the road. Lake district and all over the shop. Used my bikes as everyday transport too.
The engines were easy to repair and fairly reliable once set up right.

I've followed Nortons fortunes over the years with hope and then dismay. It felt great watching Trevor Nation racing the rotary. A real shame that this once great engineering company is in the state it's in.
I've loved British bikes since I was a teenager and have ridden them as everyday transport, from my 1959 T20 Road Cub HSY102 engine and frame no.T67502, through a 49 D1 Bantam, Royal Enfield 250 Continental GT, Tiger 100 cafe racer, Norton Big Four, Norton 16H, two '55 Dominator cafe racers Triumph Trident to my present 73 750 Commando.I just sold an Indian Chieftain with 100w sound system, heated seat and grips, 1181cc V Twin, central locking hard panniers and all. Comfortable and powerful, but not as much soul, for me, a Norton.
and hope one day the Norton name will do as well.View attachment 362273

I still don't understand. Buy a badge and stick it on anything that looks half decent. That's what the last company did, and what any future Norton company will be doing. Want a successful modern bike with real old and recent history? Buy a Honda - made by the most successful motorcycle company (by any measure) the World has seen.

 

[olley]

At collage in 68 and guy in the same class has a brand new 175 Honda, it had electric start and it didn't leak oil he came to classes in a suit, and he kept up with my 600cc domi, hated the guy.
Whoever thought a pressed steel chain case (pre unit construction) wouldn't leak oil needs giving a good kicking.

Didn't really hate him.

British motorcycles died and they deserved too.

 

[Silver-Fox]

Doesn’t make for good reading does it.

Still trying to figure out how a gamekeeper is suddenly a partner in a high end engineering buisness.

Then his father coughs up 90k.
I would of wanted half of his half, that would of rained him in.

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[Silver-Fox]

I still don't understand. Buy a badge and stick it on anything that looks half decent. That's what the last company did, and what any future Norton company will be doing. Want a successful modern bike with real old and recent history? Buy a Honda - made by the most successful motorcycle company (by any measure) the World has seen.

Worked for Triumph though ?

 

[tonyidle]

Worked for Triumph though ?

It certainly works for many companies. I just don't understand brand loyalty when the only link to past achievement is the name on the tank. Any past history ended with the original firm.

 

[hilldweller]

I just don't understand brand loyalty

It's what we humans do - football, country, monarchy, facebook, etc.

How many xxxxxFUN numberplates have you seen in pics on here.

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[Lot lover]

The Norton man decided that something that had worked for De Lorean would work for him and it seems that he was right. Oh the gullibility of those distributing largesse in the form of regional and development grants etc. The easiest thing in the world is spending the money of others.

Never having owned a motorbike I have never seen their attraction but plenty do, each to his own.

 

[Neckender]

At collage in 68 and guy in the same class has a brand new 175 Honda, it had electric start and it didn't leak oil he came to classes in a suit, and he kept up with my 600cc domi, hated the guy.
Whoever thought a pressed steel chain case (pre unit construction) wouldn't leak oil needs giving a good kicking.

Didn't really hate him.

British motorcycles died and they deserved too.

My first bike in 1966 was a 1949 BSA C11 250cc and a mate at the same pit that I worked at had Suzuki 65cc and it left my BSA standing.

John

 

[tonyidle]

Never having owned a motorbike I have never seen their attraction but plenty do, each to his own.

Sometimes you have to try something, just once, before you are smitten.
I was 12 years old and had no interest whatsoever in motorbikes despite my Dad being an enthusiastic trials rider. He even took me along to a few Trials and race meetings where I was bored stiff. One day we were at a farm where he had a shed with an old bike in it that he was about to scrap and he basically shamed me (said I was scared) into having a ride round a field. The bug bit immediately and I spent all my time at the farm riding it in the fields. Got my licence at 16, didn't have a car until I was into my 20s and even then rode a bike in summer for years afterwards. There's no way to describe the appeal - it isn't cheap, it isn't comfortable, but the sense of freedom and of being in control of something so powerful is addictive.

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[PhilG]

Having read the article, my initial thoughts are correct , but it would appear that the Spondon guy made him fully aware of the shortcomings.

It does underline the willingness of people who you would expect to be switched on, to throw money at something , hoping it will turn up one day.

What is also noted , is that this isn't the first time this has happened at Donington either . The guy who ' had the vision to bring F1 back to the track, was cut from a similar cloth , going to do great things with other peoples money , but failed dismally'. Maybe its something in the water .

 

[hilldweller]

What is also noted , is that this isn't the first time this has happened at Donington either . The guy who ' had the vision to bring F1 back to the track, .

And almost identical - The Circuit of Wales.

It's just amazing how people fall for these schemes. COW had "no chance" written all over it from the start yet they got government money and a 5 year deal to run MotoGP. "No chance", well it was on a welsh hill, no roads, middle of nowhere and they said a circuit would appear in a year, together with several million local jobs and industry.

 

[Vipar]

I had Norton once but it slowed my computer down so much I deleted it??

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[PhilG]

And almost identical - The Circuit of Wales.

It's just amazing how people fall for these schemes. COW had "no chance" written all over it from the start yet they got government money and a 5 year deal to run MotoGP. "No chance", well it was on a welsh hill, no roads, middle of nowhere and they said a circuit would appear in a year, together with several million local jobs and industry.

The shame of this, is that anyone with even an inkling of reality sees if for what it is. Back when Donington went after this charade, I proclaimed that if this ever happened, I would shove live wasps up my arse, on the Autosport Forum ( going back and reading that might be fun actually) .

Of course there were those that posted pics of the work, but I knew the background of the bloke trying to pull it off, and his chances of pulling it off,

Back to the COW , bearing in mind motorsport in Wales is one thing , pretty much , and that is Rallying, the fan base for the facility was never there, if it was , Pembrey wouldn't be the armpit that it is would it ?

And Ty Croes , which has gone on to be the very good Anglesey Circuit, is an example of what it is possible to sustain, not just build.

Its laughable. Right up to the point where people get away with the money .

Incidentally, I commentated on the last ever bike race at Rockingham , another white Elephant of mammoth proportions.

 

[PhilG]

I had Norton once but it slowed my computer down so much I deleted it??

You did well to get it to start.

 

[TinaLes]

Having read this sad thread, it raised a question to me, how are Triumph Motor bikes doing these days?, so I checked it out and its still British owned (chap called Booth or sommink)
Ok, so we have to accept that only way to survive may be to farm out (diversify) some production to the Far East, but its worked out. The Brand is still very much liked, and the sales figures increase year on year.
Now I am not a purist by any means, but if they can produce something that looks good and works to enable it to sell, then it cant be all bad cant it?
I fancied a Triumph Thruxton, (Cafe Racer, based on a Bonneville) I like the look of it, even the sound of it, I even liked the You Tube video reviews, but you guys will know more than me, as its years since I rode a big bike.
Would you buy a Triumph, even as a second bike, for a bit of nostalgia, maybe you already have one?
LES

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