No overnight parking signs (1 Viewer)

Minxy

LIFE MEMBER
Aug 22, 2007
32,488
66,008
E Yorks
Funster No
149
MH
Carthago Compactline
Exp
Since 1996, had Elddis/Swift/Rapido/Rimor/Chausson MHs. Autocruise/Globecar PVCs/Compactline i-138
Hi sandra. You will know that a lot of the natives ignore the majority of those signs :LOL:.. and if it's away from the built up area I most probably would too...
If you are up that way why not use the map provided by the smwc ...loads of places round there.
Ta andy
What's smwc???
 

andy63

Free Member
Jan 19, 2014
4,672
15,017
south shields
Funster No
29,767
MH
None
Exp
since 1990
What's smwc???
A facebook group... Scottish motorhome wild campers.. good group to join if youer planing a visit north of the border... provide an excellent map with all manner of info from stopovers to lpg fill etc.
Ta andy
 

PeteH

Free Member
Nov 22, 2007
6,853
9,029
East Riding of Yorkshire
Funster No
900
MH
Rapido, 999M.
Exp
18+yrs plus 25+Towing
WHY? Would I wish to visit the home (land) of my Relatives?. I get enough "flack" when the bu**ers lose (and even more if they ever win), at Rugby!. I`ve told them, they can leave the Union any-time they wish, but they voted to hang on and cost me further money in Taxes!.

Pete

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

Debs

LIFE MEMBER
Jun 9, 2014
6,277
179,604
West Notts
Funster No
31,908
MH
A class Adria Vision
I wasn't suggesting that locals should have been informed....just wondered if lack of information is what caused the bad feelings.....and people assuming the worst seeing that number of vans:unsure:

Sad state of affairs really...
 

pappajohn

LIFE MEMBER
Aug 26, 2007
43,207
48,802
Dark side of the moon
Funster No
172
Exp
Since 2005
Taken from Andy Strangeways websit

That argumentative tosser only believes what he wants to believe.
He doesnt even own a motorhome so must sleep in his car....less chance of being moved on.

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: GJH

Minxy

LIFE MEMBER
Aug 22, 2007
32,488
66,008
E Yorks
Funster No
149
MH
Carthago Compactline
Exp
Since 1996, had Elddis/Swift/Rapido/Rimor/Chausson MHs. Autocruise/Globecar PVCs/Compactline i-138
searched on
Why would the smwc (South Maryland Wrestling Club) produce or provide a map?
When I googled smwc I came up with Super Mario World (hacking) Club!!!! :D
 

Minxy

LIFE MEMBER
Aug 22, 2007
32,488
66,008
E Yorks
Funster No
149
MH
Carthago Compactline
Exp
Since 1996, had Elddis/Swift/Rapido/Rimor/Chausson MHs. Autocruise/Globecar PVCs/Compactline i-138
That argumentative tosser only believes what he wants to believe.
He doesnt even own motorhome so must sleep in his car....less chance of being moved on.
Eh???? Who is the tosser???
 

pappajohn

LIFE MEMBER
Aug 26, 2007
43,207
48,802
Dark side of the moon
Funster No
172
Exp
Since 2005
In supervising the site you have to make arrangements for Drinking Water, Disposal of Grey and Black Water as well as Dry Rubbish. Noise etc. has to be controlled. The name of the exempted organisation and the location of the person supervising has to be displayed.
And, of course, you need permission from the land owner....in this case probably the local council or highways dept.
 

andy63

Free Member
Jan 19, 2014
4,672
15,017
south shields
Funster No
29,767
MH
None
Exp
since 1990
That argumentative tosser only believes what he wants to believe.
He doesnt even own a motorhome so must sleep in his car....less chance of being moved on.
That's a bit harsh lol... I haven't been about or looked into it enough but in his own way he seems to have done a fair bit of research and work to try and aid the cause of motorhome parking ...
Andy..
PS. . It was him who got the Highland council to remove their lay by signs and think he's fairly active in your area trying to get the local authority to provide parking... His tactics may not be to everyone's liking but each to their own...

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

pappajohn

LIFE MEMBER
Aug 26, 2007
43,207
48,802
Dark side of the moon
Funster No
172
Exp
Since 2005
Look into it further Andy.

Yes, he has done a lot of research but once he THINKS he's correct he will argue day is night that he IS right....even when he obviously isnt.
 

GJH

LIFE MEMBER
Aug 20, 2007
29,450
38,828
Acklam, Teesside, originally Glossop
Funster No
127
MH
None, now sold
Exp
2006 to 2022
How do we know if these signs are legal or not? Should they gave a bylaw number or something?
You can check of they have the backing of a legal order by looking at that legal order. I haven't seen the full order in the case of Dundee City Council but I have been in touch with them and the statement Broken Link Removed about sleeping, camping &c was added to their web site to make it clear tat such activities are prohibited by the order
No, that sign is only a request; if it seemed that we wouldn't be inconveniencing anyone we would decline the request and overnight there. Toby n Suzy Trux.
What evidence do yiu have that it is only a request?
A lot of the signs in Scotland were found to be erected illegally and councils were made to remove them. I just wonder if this one is legal or not.
In Scotland all the lay by signs saying no overnight stops were removed.
Not them all. Some are still legal.
That removal of signage occurred in the Highland Council area. See the Highland entry on the Scotland Page on my web site for an explantion.
5.0 Legality of Signs

Black on yellow ‘No Parking Overnight’ signs are not covered by a traffic regulation order. Non prescribed signs such as this require special approval from the Scottish Ministers but there is no record of them having received any such authorisation.

An enforceable prohibition of parking would require an appropriate Traffic Regulation Order with signs and lines that comply with the Traffic Signs regulations and General Directions.

Taken from Andy Strangeways website.

I'm pretty sure the signs in the main loch front carpark in Fort William have the regulation part beside them.

Still ignored them and wasn't disturbed.........along with Fritz
That information from Strangeways is rubbish. What he fails (or refuses) to acknowledge is that the sign regulations apply only to signs on the highway and not to signs in car parks. There is simply no way that car park signs are large enough to cover everything in a legal order, which is why many councils simply have signs saying something like "Park in accordance with the current order".
I like Graham have contacted every local authority.
Their reply to an FOI request was:
"Dundee City Council only employ one person to work on the TROs, I regret to advise that we do not have the resources to provide copies of the TRO’s."

TROs must be published and copies made available. Without them being available for inspection no TRO can legally be enforceable.(snip)
It is good practice for councils to publish their orders on-line but resources do not always allow that (especially if the order is so old that no electronic copy still exists). The legal requirement is met (as with many other items) as long as a copy is held at the council HQ and is available for inspection.
 
OP
OP
irnbru

irnbru

LIFE MEMBER
Jun 27, 2013
13,503
31,101
Glasgow
Funster No
26,684
MH
Benimar 264
Exp
11 yrs
Thx for your link @GJH but the spot I was parked on was not in a car park. It was in an off road space at the beach in Broughty Ferry. Not even a single house on the esplanade within a quarter of mile.

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

GJH

LIFE MEMBER
Aug 20, 2007
29,450
38,828
Acklam, Teesside, originally Glossop
Funster No
127
MH
None, now sold
Exp
2006 to 2022
Thx for your link @GJH but the spot I was parked on was not in a car park. It was in an off road space at the beach in Broughty Ferry. Not even a single house on the esplanade within a quarter of mile.
It could well still count as a car park. If it is part of the local nature reserve it could be covered by a general order for that area rather than a parking order. There are generally restrictions on camping in such areas throughout the UK because of the risk of adverse effects on nocturnal wildlife.

The only way to know for sure the legal standing of the sign is to contact Dundee City Council and ask them.
 
OP
OP
irnbru

irnbru

LIFE MEMBER
Jun 27, 2013
13,503
31,101
Glasgow
Funster No
26,684
MH
Benimar 264
Exp
11 yrs
@GJH Any chance you can give me an idea of a draft please as I'm not too sure shat U should be asking. :)

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

GJH

LIFE MEMBER
Aug 20, 2007
29,450
38,828
Acklam, Teesside, originally Glossop
Funster No
127
MH
None, now sold
Exp
2006 to 2022
@GJH Any chance you can give me an idea of a draft please as I'm not too sure shat U should be asking. :)
Something like
Freedom of Information Request
I was visiting ??????? recently, parked at ????????? and noticed the sign in the attached picture.
I am aware that some similar signs in the Highland Council area have been found to be not legally enforceable and have been removed as a result.
Could you please provide me with details of the legal status of the sign at ????????????? and the wording of any existing legal order covering the area.

EDIT - The e-mail address to send the request to is parkingenquiries@dundeecity.gov.uk
 

Traveller_HA5_3DOM

Free Member
Jul 13, 2012
422
323
Following the Sun
Funster No
21,940
MH
Hobby Premium 65GE
Exp
since 1985
I must have got this wrong somewhere because my understanding of five van sites was that outline planning permission was given nationally if it was administered by an organisation such as CC, C and CC, or similar ie Funsters. The onus being on them to check that the conditions applied not the local council.
 
OP
OP
irnbru

irnbru

LIFE MEMBER
Jun 27, 2013
13,503
31,101
Glasgow
Funster No
26,684
MH
Benimar 264
Exp
11 yrs
@GJH I emailed the council last week and heard nothing so I called to ask what their email response time was. The lady I spoke to said it wasn't her department and she would pass it on. Today I got a call from a gentleman from the council to inform me there are No byelaws, its parking management rules on open spaces as stated on their website and therefore enforceable. I asked him just to reply to the email at which point he said he would pass it to the legal team to reply.
Having no knowledge myself ..Whats your thoughts on this?
 
Aug 27, 2009
19,788
23,032
Hertfordshire
Funster No
8,178
MH
Van Conversion
Exp
40 years
I guess it will depend if you want to see a height barrier restricting the next time that you visit preventing all camper parking . Abuse by the few eventually spoils it for all.
 

GJH

LIFE MEMBER
Aug 20, 2007
29,450
38,828
Acklam, Teesside, originally Glossop
Funster No
127
MH
None, now sold
Exp
2006 to 2022
@GJH I emailed the council last week and heard nothing so I called to ask what their email response time was. The lady I spoke to said it wasn't her department and she would pass it on. Today I got a call from a gentleman from the council to inform me there are No byelaws, its parking management rules on open spaces as stated on their website and therefore enforceable. I asked him just to reply to the email at which point he said he would pass it to the legal team to reply.
Having no knowledge myself ..Whats your thoughts on this?
You have made a written request by e-mail which, therefore, qualifies as a valid request under the Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act. The council has up to 20 working days to respond, starting with the first working day after they received it (in the case of an e-mail that is the first working day after you sent it whether they read it on that day or not).

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

Puddleduck

LIFE MEMBER
Jan 15, 2014
12,357
43,865
Scottish Borders
Funster No
29,703
MH
Without at present
Exp
On and off for many years.
@GJH I emailed the council last week and heard nothing so I called to ask what their email response time was. The lady I spoke to said it wasn't her department and she would pass it on. Today I got a call from a gentleman from the council to inform me there are No byelaws, its parking management rules on open spaces as stated on their website and therefore enforceable. I asked him just to reply to the email at which point he said he would pass it to the legal team to reply.
Having no knowledge myself ..Whats your thoughts on this?

Seems like it's a fob off to me. The legal department will be involved because it is FOI and a legal issue. This is the only thing could find on the website:

The Dundee City Council car parks are generally not suitable for motorhomes. East Whale Lane car park is the most suitable but please contact 01382 432095 to make arrangements prior to parking. Note - you are not permitted to use the vehicle for sleeping, camping or cooking whilst parked in any Dundee City Council car park.
 
OP
OP
irnbru

irnbru

LIFE MEMBER
Jun 27, 2013
13,503
31,101
Glasgow
Funster No
26,684
MH
Benimar 264
Exp
11 yrs
I guess it will depend if you want to see a height barrier restricting the next time that you visit preventing all camper parking . Abuse by the few eventually spoils it for all.
The stupid thing is there are no yellow lines on the road so easy enough just to stop right next to the little car park if you can even call it that.

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

GJH

LIFE MEMBER
Aug 20, 2007
29,450
38,828
Acklam, Teesside, originally Glossop
Funster No
127
MH
None, now sold
Exp
2006 to 2022
Seems like it's a fob off to me. The legal department will be involved because it is FOI and a legal issue. This is the only thing could find on the website:

The Dundee City Council car parks are generally not suitable for motorhomes. East Whale Lane car park is the most suitable but please contact 01382 432095 to make arrangements prior to parking. Note - you are not permitted to use the vehicle for sleeping, camping or cooking whilst parked in any Dundee City Council car park.
That sentence was added to the web site after I had been in touch with someone at the council 2 or 3 years ago. He was very helpful and wanted to ensure that misleading information wasn't published. By making phone contact the size of the motorhome and part of the city you want to get to could be discussed. There are a few other councils which take that approach as well, mainly those which don't receive a lot of requests for motorhome parking.
I found this..dont know if it applies and I'm still none the wiser if what I was told today is actually legal or not.

http://www.andywightman.com/docs/dundee_parkrules.pdf
I looked that up and found it on the DCC web site Broken Link Removed as well. It looks perfectly legal to me. It covers use of vehicles within recreational parks &c rather than in car parks themselves so it would depend how the particular location in question is defined as to whether it would have effect in this particular case.
 
OP
OP
irnbru

irnbru

LIFE MEMBER
Jun 27, 2013
13,503
31,101
Glasgow
Funster No
26,684
MH
Benimar 264
Exp
11 yrs
You have made a written request by e-mail which, therefore, qualifies as a valid request under the Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act. The council has up to 20 working days to respond, starting with the first working day after they received it (in the case of an e-mail that is the first working day after you sent it whether they read it on that day or not).
What happens after 20 days?I have had no return of email, just the phonecall as mentioned earlier in the thread. What do you suggest now...A 2nd email?
 

GJH

LIFE MEMBER
Aug 20, 2007
29,450
38,828
Acklam, Teesside, originally Glossop
Funster No
127
MH
None, now sold
Exp
2006 to 2022
What happens after 20 days?I have had no return of email, just the phonecall as mentioned earlier in the thread. What do you suggest now...A 2nd email?
Forward your original e-mail to foi@dundeecity.gov.uk (full details Here) and tell them that if they don't get their backsides into gear straight away and reply to you by return that you will report them to the Scottish Information Commissioner for breach of the Act.

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

Join us or log in to post a reply.

To join in you must be a member of MotorhomeFun

Join MotorhomeFun

Join us, it quick and easy!

Log in

Already a member? Log in here.

Latest journal entries

Funsters who are viewing this thread

Back
Top