Newbie lessons learned

[Glas Robin]

Long post alert...

So we have just returned from our third overseas trip in our first year of MoHo ownership. Our first trip was a week to northern France last autumn, our second was a week to the Swiss Alps in June.

This trip was a longer trip (18 days) with the Memsahib, and the 19 and 16 yr old gene puddles. We intended to get to Dubrovnik via Italy and return via Austria. In the end we spent more time island hopping than we planned and didn't get further south than Plitvice national park.

So we offer a few (hopefully not too self-evident) lessons these newbies have learned. But first, the trip in numbers:

Road trip 2019:

3,000 miles driven.
In 72 hours.
Over 18 days.
Across 12 borders.
Through 9 countries.
Over countless bridges and through innumerable tunnels.
Via 4 bikes, 3 ferries, 2 trains, 1 gondola, 1 vaporetto, 1 kayak, 1 cable car, 1 funicular railway, 1 tram, 1 paddleboard, and a toboggan.
At an average speed of 41mph.
And 25 mpg roughly.

Lessons:

1. France is always closed. Whenever you go.
2. Our plastic footprint is huge and worrying - mostly from water and soft drinks. We've now bought a soda stream to eliminate soft drinks. We've bought a container to fill with drinking water so as not to use the tank water.
3. Stop worrying about the MPG. It is what it is. But check websites such as fuelshare for the cheapest diesel in town. In France it is always at a Carrefour.
4. Put a multimeter in your tool kit. Most useful tool after a roll of gaffer tape.
5. Autoroutes are quicker but pricier - especially in France.
6. Watch out for the vignettes in places like Switzerland, Austria and Slovenia. Buy in advance as you can't be sure of getting one at/just over the border. Austria are very good at extracting fines at the first motorway on-ramp.
7. Plans change. Roll with it.
8. Wilding/Aires is possible pretty much everywhere if you plan ahead... Park4nights is our preferred app for this.
9. Sygic Truck is our preferred satnav. We have it installed in an Android head unit with a ten inch screen. Works well for us.
10. Take all the instruction books with you...we left ours behind to save weight. And then wasted an hour fiddling with a simple problem with our awning.
11. Four adults living in a four berth van is do-able but intimate.
12. Teenage boys produce an incredible amount of hair, dust, skin flakes and grit. The 12v rechargeable handheld Hoover was one of our best purchases.
13. Make a note of all the things that need fixing or improving in the van as you go...you'll forget at the end of the trip.
14. We used 14l of LPG in our 18 days... We had EHU on possibly fix or six nights. We drove on probably a little more than half the days. So we used 14l to heat showers and run the fridge, plus four or five BBQs. It wasn't even a full tank...so my planned capacity-upgrade to the GasIt system I installed has been put on hold. Ditto the solar panels...but I may fit a second leisure battery.
15. No matter how many USB charger sockets you install, it's never enough.
16. We have a 15m electric cable... Wish we had 25m or 30. We also need to take an European socket to EHU adapter ... Some sites in Croatia were running off what looked like domestic plugs!
17. France is always closed. Whenever you go.

We had a blast on this trip. Really got on with the van, and with mohoing. Every trip just gets better and better. Seriously thinking of ways to do this for extended trips/semi-full time...

 

[Figaro]

Sounds a great trip.
Can you expand on this please

Austria are very good at extracting fines at the first motorway on-ramp

I bought a gobox this year to cross Austria and nobody knew we had it, could easily have not bothered to get one.
Plus I couldn't get rid of the damn thing on leaving. Had to bring it home and post back to them and still waiting for a refund !
Did you see people getting fined for not having one ?

 

[The Dudess]

The Go Box system has to be the most difficult and convoluted way of paying tolls. We bought a GoBox earlier this year for Austria. Had to pay >100 euros because you have to preload it. It worked Ok on the way over but on the way back it suddenly started bleeping twice on tolls instead of once. We called customer service twice, had it checked at 3 different 'GoBox' outlets and no-one could tell us why it was bleeping. Very stressful trying to find firstly where these outlets were situated and then trying to get to them in a 7.5 metres, 4.1/2 ton van! Not wishing to incurr any fines we changed our route to avoid tolls and we're now in the process of trying to get the remaining euros refunded. Firstly you have to have it blocked which involves scanning all the documentation/receipts (which were printed on what looked like flimsy toilet roll!) and emailing them. Once they have confirmed that it has been blocked you have to send the Go Box back - cost £4.50 at the post office. In future if we have to go via Austria we will be avoiding tolls points.

 

[Glas Robin]

Sounds a great trip.
Can you expand on this please

"Austria are very good at extracting fines at the first motorway on-ramp "

I bought a gobox this year to cross Austria and nobody knew we had it, could easily have not bothered to get one.
Plus I couldn't get rid of the damn thing on leaving. Had to bring it home and post back to them and still waiting for a refund !
Did you see people getting fined for not having one ?

No idea about GoBoxes as I think they are for vans over 3.5T and we are under.

The Austrian police are apparently notorious for pulling over drivers at the first on-ramp or service station and fining those without a vignette. There is one chap I read a post from (possibly on here) who was physically pulled out of the queue to buy a vignette at the first service station by a traffic cop and fined for the couple of miles he had already travelled. When protesting, he was told to have bought it before entering Austria and the "law is the law".

You can buy a vignette online linked to your number plate - but it can't be done less than 18 days before you travel due to Austria consumer protection laws.

Apparently a lot of fines are now issued electronically, and there are lots of signs about camera surveillance and vignettes as you enter the motorway. We entered without a vignette from Slovenia through a tunnel - and were forced to use the motorways for a couple of miles before exiting. We bought a vignette later that day, but it remains to be seen if a fine will arrive through the post shortly.

It varies between 120 and 240 euros apparently.

I should add, the rest of Austria is delightful and on the list of places to go back to and explore more fully.

 

[Figaro]

The Austrian police are apparently notorious for pulling over drivers at the first on-ramp or service station and fining those without a vignette

Interesting, never saw any of that, lots of overhead cameras for sure but nothing to do with enforcement of vignette I think so you won't be getting a fine, sleep easy.

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[Glas Robin]

Interesting, never saw any of that, lots of overhead cameras for sure but nothing to do with enforcement of vignette I think so you won't be getting a fine, sleep easy.

I hope you're right.

But this is from the Afsinag website. Afsinag run the motorway system in Austria.



"Automatic vignette control

In addition to the manual control, the vignette is also checked with cameras. Where, for reasons of traffic safety, it is not possible to divert and stop the toll, the Automatic Vignette Control (AVK) is used (for example on multi-lane city highways). Currently, nine camera systems are in use. The locations of the mobile systems change every seven to 14 days.
This is how the "electronic eye" works
The camera body is mounted over a lane and checked from there two-lane motor vehicles up to 3.5t maximum gross vehicle weight. Vehicles without a valid vignette will be recognized by the recording system. Only in well-founded cases of suspicion will the system record and store an overview image with license plate as well as a detail image of the windscreen. Afterwards, the proofs of responsibility of employees in the ASFINAG Enforcement Center are additionally checked manually for correctness.!

 

[chaser]

Don't know if it's changed but two years ago we bought an under 3.500 one from a filling station just before the border about 8 euros

 

[icantremember]

Long post alert...

So we have just returned from our third overseas trip in our first year of MoHo ownership. Our first trip was a week to northern France last autumn, our second was a week to the Swiss Alps in June.

This trip was a longer trip (18 days) with the Memsahib, and the 19 and 16 yr old gene puddles. We intended to get to Dubrovnik via Italy and return via Austria. In the end we spent more time island hopping than we planned and didn't get further south than Plitvice national park.

So we offer a few (hopefully not too self-evident) lessons these newbies have learned. But first, the trip in numbers:

Road trip 2019:

3,000 miles driven.
In 72 hours.
Over 18 days.
Across 12 borders.
Through 9 countries.
Over countless bridges and through innumerable tunnels.
Via 4 bikes, 3 ferries, 2 trains, 1 gondola, 1 vaporetto, 1 kayak, 1 cable car, 1 funicular railway, 1 tram, 1 paddleboard, and a toboggan.
At an average speed of 41mph.
And 25 mpg roughly.

Lessons:

1. France is always closed. Whenever you go.
2. Our plastic footprint is huge and worrying - mostly from water and soft drinks. We've now bought a soda stream to eliminate soft drinks. We've bought a container to fill with drinking water so as not to use the tank water.
3. Stop worrying about the MPG. It is what it is. But check websites such as fuelshare for the cheapest diesel in town. In France it is always at a Carrefour.
4. Put a multimeter in your tool kit. Most useful tool after a roll of gaffer tape.
5. Autoroutes are quicker but pricier - especially in France.
6. Watch out for the vignettes in places like Switzerland, Austria and Slovenia. Buy in advance as you can't be sure of getting one at/just over the border. Austria are very good at extracting fines at the first motorway on-ramp.
7. Plans change. Roll with it.
8. Wilding/Aires is possible pretty much everywhere if you plan ahead... Park4nights is our preferred app for this.
9. Sygic Truck is our preferred satnav. We have it installed in an Android head unit with a ten inch screen. Works well for us.
10. Take all the instruction books with you...we left ours behind to save weight. And then wasted an hour fiddling with a simple problem with our awning.
11. Four adults living in a four berth van is do-able but intimate.
12. Teenage boys produce an incredible amount of hair, dust, skin flakes and grit. The 12v rechargeable handheld Hoover was one of our best purchases.
13. Make a note of all the things that need fixing or improving in the van as you go...you'll forget at the end of the trip.
14. We used 14l of LPG in our 18 days... We had EHU on possibly fix or six nights. We drove on probably a little more than half the days. So we used 14l to heat showers and run the fridge, plus four or five BBQs. It wasn't even a full tank...so my planned capacity-upgrade to the GasIt system I installed has been put on hold. Ditto the solar panels...but I may fit a second leisure battery.
15. No matter how many USB charger sockets you install, it's never enough.
16. We have a 15m electric cable... Wish we had 25m or 30. We also need to take an European socket to EHU adapter ... Some sites in Croatia were running off what looked like domestic plugs!
17. France is always closed. Whenever you go.

We had a blast on this trip. Really got on with the van, and with mohoing. Every trip just gets better and better. Seriously thinking of ways to do this for extended trips/semi-full time...

It would appear that you all had a great time on this trip and now are completely smitten with moho life.
I am intrigued how you manage to fit four adults along with all the essential luggage into a motorhome of almost 7.5m long and only with a MGW of 3500Kg.
Did you have the unit weighed once packed and loaded with essentials and the four occupants?

 

[Blue Knight]

No idea about GoBoxes as I think they are for vans over 3.5T and we are under.

I keep hearing that four adults in a fully loaded van which is registered at 3,500kg is impossible to run legally so what van, payload, axle weights does yours have please?

 

[mikebeaches]

Don't know if it's changed but two years ago we bought an under 3.500 one from a filling station just before the border about 8 euros

Yes, they are ridiculously cheap for under 3,500kg. And, as you say, get 'em from filling stations.

We didn't buy ours until we'd been in the country a week, but during that time we were nowhere near any motorways.

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[Glas Robin]

I keep hearing that four adults in a fully loaded van which is registered at 3,500kg is impossible to run legally so what van, payload, axle weights does yours have please?

That's a very good question, and one which I can't fully answer.

We have a Carado T449.
MIRO is 2,850 and payload is apparently 650kg. But we all know what those figures are like.

I haven't weighed us fully loaded. We run with a max of 20l water on the road and empty the grey and black before we leave sites, and the fridge always seems empty!

I would guess we will be close to the limit or over if weighed with all four of us on board, plus bikes.

The van can be uprated without modification to 3,850. I'm confident we are well below that when all four of us are on board, but I haven't checked the individual axle weights.

I really should weigh us. And then get my @rse in to gear and sort out the uprating. Fortunately I have a C1 license as does the co-pilot.

Alternatively I'm looking to dispose of the gene puddles asap - 1 is at uni now and the other starts a-levels this year. So hopefully it will just be the memsahib and me soon.

 

[Glas Robin]

Yes, they are ridiculously cheap for under 3,500kg. And, as you say, get 'em from filling stations.

We didn't buy ours until we'd been in the country a week, but during that time we were nowhere near any motorways.

9.20 Euros for a ten day vignette now. Cheap as chips. Especially when compared to the tolls in France.

 

[mitzimad]

low gas use changes in autumn when you need heating

 

[Glas Robin]

low gas use changes in autumn when you need heating

Yep - we ran out in a week last autumn in France.

I was surprised at how little gas the fridge used, given it was on much of the time and battling 30-35degree heat.

Buying a bag of ice in the supermarket and keeping it in the freezer helped.

 

[Glas Robin]

Incidentally, safety issues aside - has anyone ever been stopped and weighed - or seen anyone stopped and weighed?

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[denisejoe]

That seems a lot of miles for an 18 day holiday! I felt exhausted just reading it. We don't do that many miles in a month! Never travel for more than an hour or so and quite often even less. We want to see the country not have a driving holiday.

Denise

 

[Glas Robin]

That seems a lot of miles for an 18 day holiday! I felt exhausted just reading it. We don't do that many miles in a month! Never travel for more than an hour or so and quite often even less. We want to see the country not have a driving holiday.

Denise

You're quite right, Denise. But we deliberately wanted to get to Croatia on this trip, via Italy out and Austria back. and 600 of the miles are from N wales to the tunnel and back.

Most of the mileage was done in a concentrated couple of days at the beginning and end. But we are probably at the limits at of what can be done and called a "holiday". The days where you do no driving or just an hour are much more enjoyable - especially for the lower ratings in the cheap rear seats.

Looking forward to the time in life when we can be much more leisurely!

 

[Hollyberry]

Took my kids to Plitvice in the mid 60s, beautiful. Well done on steps to reduce plastic use. I can add soap instead of shower gel and shampoo bars instead of liquid.

 

[Blue Knight]

That's a very good question, and one which I can't fully answer.

We have a Carado T449.
MIRO is 2,850 and payload is apparently 650kg. But we all know what those figures are like.

I haven't weighed us fully loaded. We run with a max of 20l water on the road and empty the grey and black before we leave sites, and the fridge always seems empty!

I would guess we will be close to the limit or over if weighed with all four of us on board, plus bikes.

The van can be uprated without modification to 3,850. I'm confident we are well below that when all four of us are on board, but I haven't checked the individual axle weights.

I really should weigh us. And then get my @arse in to gear and sort out the uprating. Fortunately I have a C1 license as does the co-pilot.

Alternatively I'm looking to dispose of the gene puddles asap - 1 is at uni now and the other starts a-levels this year. So hopefully it will just be the memsahib and me soon.

Hi there,

I'm really sorry to say this but perhaps the biggest learning point from your tour is that you're way-way off with your payload figures:

The Carado T-449 has a 650kg payload in 2-berth guise only but yours is a 'UK market' 4-berth option so you need to remove the following weights from your 650kg:

1. Dropdown bed: 55kg.
2. Awning 4.5m: 45kg.
3. 4 bikes & rack: 60kg.
4. UK standard chassis pack: 30kg.
5. UK Basic Pack: 22kg
6. Extra gas: 25kg.
7. Solar: 10kg.
8. If you have an oven then that's a further 14kg and that goes in combo with the 167-liter fridge option which weighs a further 15kg over standard.
9. If you have a 150bhp Auto then remove a further 32kg.
10. Estimated weight variation as per EU Directive: 40kg minimum.

You therefore have one of the following:

1. 130bhp Manual Van with a: 334kg payload.

2. 150bhp Auto Van with a: 302kg payload.

This excludes all three passengers, gear, water, food, extra hab batteries(27kg) etc.

If you add water then by my reckoning you will be running at 4T and would be 500kg over, plus way over your rear axle and tyre safety loadings.

I would get rid of the big kids for starters.

All the best,

Andrew

 

[mikebeaches]

7. Solar: 10kg.

Andrew

Good point well made.

Small detail, the OP said he hadn't got solar -10kg.

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[Blue Knight]

Good point well made.

Small detail, the OP said he hadn't got solar -10kg.

That's a tip-top observation Mike

In that case they've gained 10kg more but have lost a further 27kg for the second hab battery and 5kg for all of the manuals which they forgot on this trip.

........so that's a further 22kg gone overall

 

[The general]

That seems a lot of miles for an 18 day holiday! I felt exhausted just reading it. We don't do that many miles in a month! Never travel for more than an hour or so and quite often even less. We want to see the country not have a driving holiday.

Denise

Nothing wrong in a driving holiday , as long as roads are not stressful , I am in Scandinavia been to nord kapp , that was part of the trip the road up there , enjoy the scenery , mind you Norwegian rds need a bit of attention .

 

[mikebeaches]

That's a tip-top observation Mike

In that case they've gained 10kg more but have lost a further 27kg for the second hab battery and 5kg for all of the manuals which they forgot on this trip.

........so that's a further 22kg gone overall

Don't think so. Believe OP said he was 'thinking' of getting a second hab battery...

 

[denisejoe]

Nothing wrong in a driving holiday , as long as roads are not stressful , I am in Scandinavia been to nord kapp , that was part of the trip the road up there , enjoy the scenery , mind you Norwegian rds need a bit of attention .

Agree there's nothing wrong if you want a driving holiday but personally if I wanted to do long distances I'd prefer to do it by coach rather than taking the MH.

I don't think the driver really gets to see much scenery, particularly on a long drive.

 

[Glas Robin]

Hi there,

I'm really sorry to say this but perhaps the biggest learning point from your tour is that you're way-way off with your payload figures:

The Carado T-449 has a 650kg payload in 2-berth guise only but yours is a 'UK market' 4-berth option so you need to remove the following weights from your 650kg:

1. Dropdown bed: 55kg.
2. Awning 4.5m: 45kg.
3. 4 bikes & rack: 60kg.
4. UK standard chassis pack: 30kg.
5. UK Basic Pack: 22kg
6. Extra gas: 25kg.
7. Solar: 10kg.
8. If you have an oven then that's a further 14kg and that goes in combo with the 167-liter fridge option which weighs a further 15kg over standard.
9. If you have a 150bhp Auto then remove a further 32kg.
10. Estimated weight variation as per EU Directive: 40kg minimum.

You therefore have one of the following:

1. 130bhp Manual Van with a: 334kg payload.

2. 150bhp Auto Van with a: 302kg payload.

This excludes all three passengers, gear, water, food, extra hab batteries(27kg) etc.

If you add water then by my reckoning you will be running at 4T and would be 500kg over, plus way over your rear axle and tyre safety loadings.

I would get rid of the big kids for starters.

All the best,

Andrew

That’s sobering, and underlines the need to weigh the thing. I can see why people say you can’t run a 4 berth legally at 3.5T...

Where did you get your technical figures from? I’ve got something which states the MIRO for my van is 2,993 with 502kg payload - and I’d like to double check what is/isn’t in that.

It makes tiny differences - no bike rack (use the garage), no solar and no second battery (yet), and we’ve taken the carpets out. And it’s the 130 manual version. But I guess we’ll have to ditch the kids and the Memsahib will have to rationalise the spice cupboard more.

Thanks for the heads up...think it’s time to empty the van totally and weigh it compared to stated MIRO.

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[Glas Robin]

Agree there's nothing wrong if you want a driving holiday but personally if I wanted to do long distances I'd prefer to do it by coach rather than taking the MH.

I don't think the driver really gets to see much scenery, particularly on a long drive.

I’m not so sure. I think you see plenty. Plus in a coach, unless you’re at the front, you only get a side view.

We got into mohoing with 2 long RV holidays in SW USA and the Canadian Rockies... I was the sole driver on those and saw plenty. Mind you, the landscape is rather expansive over there!

 

[Blue Knight]

That’s sobering, and underlines the need to weigh the thing. I can see why people say you can’t run a 4 berth legally at 3.5T...

Where did you get your technical figures from? I’ve got something which states the MIRO for my van is 2,993 with 502kg payload - and I’d like to double check what is/isn’t in that.

It makes tiny differences - no bike rack (use the garage), no solar and no second battery (yet), and we’ve taken the carpets out. And it’s the 130 manual version. But I guess we’ll have to ditch the kids and the Memsahib will have to rationalise the spice cupboard more.

Thanks for the heads up...think it’s time to empty the van totally and weigh it compared to stated MIRO.

Robin,

There are a few payloads being quoted depending on the manufacturing year of the van and what spec is being tested. The current 2019 standard payload for a 2-berth non-UK spec'd T-449 Is 650kg. This is according to the MY19 Carado home page.

If you then access the 20-page Carado Options brochure then it highlights all of the packages and weights etc. The dealers will not tell you about the precise details that I've quoted since quite frankly they haven't got a fricking clue.

The carpet (as an example) weighs 7kg, according to the brochure, so that's now in your favour as you've removed it.

If you have the 130-Man cab then add 27kg (10kg (solar) + 10kg (bike rack) + 7kg (carpet)), to my initial figure of 334kg and in theory you should now have c.361kg of payload to use, assuming that you can distribute the weight across the axles.

All I'll say is don't trust the dealers or their tech specs.

All the best,

Andrew

 

[Glas Robin]

Robin,

There are a few payloads being quoted depending on the manufacturing year of the van and what spec is being tested. The current 2019 standard payload for a 2-berth non-UK spec'd T-449 Is 650kg. This is according to the MY19 Carado home page.

If you then access the 20-page Carado Options brochure then it highlights all of the packages and weights etc. The dealers will not tell you about the precise details that I've quoted since quite frankly they haven't got a fricking clue.

The carpet (as an example) weighs 7kg, according to the brochure, so that's now in your favour as you've removed it.

If you have the 130-Man cab then add 27kg (10kg (solar) + 10kg (bike rack) + 7kg (carpet)), to my initial figure of 334kg and in theory you should now have c.361kg of payload to use, assuming that you can distribute the weight across the axles.

All I'll say is don't trust the dealers or their tech specs.

All the best,

Andrew

Thanks Andrew - I appreciate the advice. I must admit it was one of those things that I was vaguely concerned about, but assumed even if we were overweight from a legal point, we’d be well inside the design limit. I’m not so sure now, so want to check.

Fortunately most of the time there’s either three or just the two of us in the van. Which is why I want to be clear on the real MIRO and work from there.

 

[Blue Knight]

Which is why I want to be clear on the real MIRO and work from there.

You've got a real nice van there Robin but all I would do at this stage is to get the two axles weighed with everything and everyone onboard and take it from there.

You can then look at tyres, air suspension and uplating if you need it but that'll all depend on your own needs.

Good luck and enjoy the van (great tips regarding France BTW),

All the best,

Andrew

 

[RedFrame]

Without a doubt you are running overweight, how long ago did you purchase the van? After purchasing our van and then visiting a weighbridge (after advice received at a funster meet) we found that at 3.5T our van was fine with half a tank of water, half fuel and me and Bannock in it, adding the boss took us over, then there was the clothes, books, camping paraphernalia etc.

We went back to the dealer and stated that the van was sold unfit for purpose... they paid for an SVTech uprate....

Cheers
Chris, Bannock and Red.