Newbee seeking mechanical servicing advice for old Hymer

[shepc]

Hello folks.

I’m new to mo-homing and have recently bought a 1997 2.5 Fiat Ducato based Hymer B544 …and am loving it!

Any advice appreciated please for the best way to go about getting it mechanically serviced, MOT’d, etc.

I don’t mind getting my hands dirty myself (for simple stuff like oil & filter change), but it seems quite hard to even find a workshop manual for this kind of age vehicle.

I live in Leicestershire… so can you perhaps recommend a decent, reasonable value / indy van mechanic in the region that will be confident on older vehicles like mine?

All advice appreciated, with thanks,
Chris

 

[Manic]

Simple mechanics on them so not difficult to work on
I recently had my cam belt replaced cheaply at a garage near Peterborough
work shop manuals search for Peter Russek ones or Haynes or this

 

[airwave]

hard to even find a workshop manual

I'm afraid there's a good reason for that , there was never one printed . There was a workshop maual printed , but these are very rare , and you need to be really quick off the mark to secure one . To date i've never even seen one . You say its a 2.5 , yet around 97 Fiat began producing the 2.8 which is what i have . You are sure it's a 2.5 arn't you ? . The main difference between the two very basically , is the head , the 2.8 still uses the 2.5 lower engine components and block . It's an old school motor , pump and direct injection . You do NOT have an ECU , and you don't have a common rail fuel system either , so don't let anyone try and tell you it has . The basic engine is actually quite robust , so i doubt you will have any problems , mechanically . However , i would strongly advise changing the oil regularly , and with this fit a new oil filter . I would also recommend flushing the oil system with a flushing oil , but frankly this is not vital . I do it every time i change the oil , and really , it only takes about 20 minutes extra to get clean oil galleries , which is the purpose of this oil . Do not drive the vehicle with this oil , it is not thick enough to protect the engine internals . Air filter is really a doddle to change , but i would be wary of advising fuel filter , without seeing what you have . There is a system about that causes all kinds of problems , but in the main these appear to be fitted to later motors , i just don't want to get caught out . I don't have this system , and as a consequence this is also a doddle , i would just want to be sure !! .
All of this work is easily achieved by someone with limited mechanical knowledge , and i would also recommend the Peter Russek manual . However i would also urge caution , as this book is in no way complete . It has large sections missed out , and others are pure basic information . Photographs are almost non-existent , and those there are , are not the clearest i've seen . The schematics are better , but only cover the section being dealt with , so you may need to view a second section to get the full picture . However the information it does contain is better than nothing , my advantage is i have a diesel car of the same era, and i do have a Haynes manual for that .
At this time , my van is sat on the drive for the second winter . During this time , i have completed a complete rebuild of the cooling system , a complete overhaul of the timing system , work on the engine breather system , windscreen washer deep clean , and overhaul , and following discovery of corrosion during an inspection of the power steering , begun to acquire parts to fully overhaul this system as well . I've also being involved in various other areas , including chassis , lighting , and electrics , but this mostly now involves fitting a media system , which itself involves major modifications , and finally bodywork where i've welded the front bumper and spats . Actual internal work is very small , with only a couple of jobs required .

 

[shepc]

Thanks for taking the time to respond all - appreciated, and reassuring to know that I should be able to do a fair amount myself. Yes, it’s a 2.5 and supposed to be a Tdi version, though not sure how to identify this, TBH. Will try and track down a workshop manual, and the Amazon pointer seems as good a place to start as any. Cheers!

 

[Manic]

Another on amazon

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[Silver-Fox]

Generally older base vehicles need you to have a bit of common sense.
Along with google you can sort most basic stuff out.

Would it be worth looking to see if there is a forum for the base vehicle.
Might be a good starting point for any info you might need.

Good luck with your new purchase

 

[airwave]

Thanks for taking the time to respond all - appreciated, and reassuring to know that I should be able to do a fair amount myself. Yes, it’s a 2.5 and supposed to be a Tdi version, though not sure how to identify this, TBH. Will try and track down a workshop manual, and the Amazon pointer seems as good a place to start as any. Cheers!

Engines of this vintage , are a really good place to learn . They don't have the fancy bits that quite frankly a diesel doesn't need . Once running it is entirely possible to remove the battery , because they don't actually need that either , only for starting . Unlike a petrol engine , the actual bang is created by pressure . Spark plugs are not even an optional extra , so straight away you have lost one of the most troublesome components of any engine , ignition . Feed it clean air , and clean fuel , and it will go on forever .
Modern diesels are a totally different beast . They are far more reliant on batteries , and there're tolerances are much tighter , making them a nightmare to work on . Certainly no place for a beginner to learn . They have added fancy bits , and are loaded with sensors which will go wrong at some point . Some of these even give false warnings , and lets not forget , a lit engine management light is now an mot failure . Added complication just where you don't need it , and just remove the battery , and see what happens .

Yes it is a TDI , all diesels are . Though a select few did use a form of carburettor in the past (actually i'm not even sure that stands today) , there're not fitted to diesels . They are almost certainly all injected , which is what the I stands for . I'm guessing you have a turbo , so that takes care of the T , and of course it's a diesel so there's your D . Turbo Diesel Injection . Only non turbo diesel are not tdi , and my car is one of them .
As @Silver-Fox , has already stated common sense and google will steer you round a good portion of the problems . As for forums , well yes there is , but to be honest it's not that good . I am a member there as well and pop over every once in a while , but vans of this era don't generally get mentioned . By far it mainly concerns vans of 2006 up , Even going back to past threads , tdi questions were quite light , which kind of reinforces what i said in my first post . In the time i've being a member , i think i've asked one questions , and that was answered by the moderator . I don't think anyone left who knows .

Another on amazon

Ah don't confuse the guy , mate . That is the wrong one for his van , the reason i questioned it in the first place

 

[gus-lopez]

Yes, it’s a 2.5 and supposed to be a Tdi version, though not sure how to identify this,

Open bonnet & look for the exhaust manifold. A turbo would be attached to it if present. On the air intake side it will go through the air filter then a pipe on to one side of the turbo ,out of the bottom towards the front, if it has an intecooler which will be around or under the radiator usually, then out of the intercooler back in to the intake manifold

Yes it is a TDI , all diesels are . Though a select few did use a form of carburettor in the past (actually i'm not even sure that stands today) , there're not fitted to diesels . They are almost certainly all injected , which is what the I stands for . I'm guessing you have a turbo , so that takes care of the T , and of course it's a diesel so there's your D . Turbo Diesel Injection .

No , not quite correct. If a diesel only, mine was, also known as normally aspirated it has no turbo or ,obviously, intercooler.
if it is a turbo it can be shown as 'Td'= turbo diesel . The 'I' on the end represents it having an intercooler.
the 2,5 early on was only sold as normally aspirated .then it got a turbo followed by an intercooler. same with the 1900cc.

 

[mitzimad]

All deisels are injected ,as said oil change regular air filter and diesel filter is about as much servicing the engine needs personally i wouldnt use flushing oil on such an old engine make sure you find the correct oil for the vehicle i would contact an oil supplier to find out if theres a synthetic or semi synthetic equivalent
Before changing the diesel filter find out the correct bleeding method generally there will be a bleed on the pump and you probably need to crack injector nuts .Buy a can of aerostart as it can be handy to get them running after a filter change.If you want to get it done by a garage look for a mechanic over 40 or they will be wandering round trying to find the obd port

 

[mitzimad]

As it sounds like a turbo get under neath and check the waste gate is free to move probably need to remove the actuator or arm to do that check gearbox level and if its 5 speed over fill a bit

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[jockaneezer]

I too am not a fan of flushing oil, especially on an engine that you don't know it's use/history. Let sleeping sludge lie I say !

 

[shepc]

What a great forum… plenty there for me to take on board and lots of good pointers. Cheers guys.

 

[Itsmcb]

I have a 1996 Peugeot Boxer 2.5 TD which I have had about 6 years now. As mentioned above, fairly simple by today's standards but I am happy about that. Being front wheel drive everything is fairly crammed in and lots of bits are not particularly easy to get at. I have the manual suggested above but it's really not very good, yes better than nothing (maybe) but certainly not up to Haynes manual standards. Getting parts has not been a problem so far although it's not needed much. A starter, a battery and a diesel cut off solenoid recently. The 5speed gearbox tends to be more problematic on these.

 

[shepc]

I got a fair pile of past invoices with the van, including an invoice for an expensive gearbox rebuild a few years ago, due to the dodgy 5th speed. The previous owner has advised me that the gearbox oil has recently been overfilled, as per advice above, so fingers crossed on that count (plus I’m waiting for the engine to warm up before selecting 5th, which I read somewhere can help things)… it’s like having a new, very old baby… learning curve, etc. Cheers for sharing your experiences.

 

[Kev and Christa]

We use ARC motors in Sileby Leics for Servicing, MOT and repairs and seem to be knowledgeable and well priced.

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[Kev and Christa]

Sorry ARK Motors

 

[mitzimad]

I got a fair pile of past invoices with the van, including an invoice for an expensive gearbox rebuild a few years ago, due to the dodgy 5th speed. The previous owner has advised me that the gearbox oil has recently been overfilled, as per advice above, so fingers crossed on that count (plus I’m waiting for the engine to warm up before selecting 5th, which I read somewhere can help things)… it’s like having a new, very old baby… learning curve, etc. Cheers for sharing your experiences.

yes wait before using 5th is good advice gives it time for the oil to splash 5th gear failiure isnt that hard to fix if you can find the right gears can be done in situ

 

[Clipgate]

One item worthy of note is the oil used in the gearbox, a subtle difference but vital is that it's a GL4 specification not GL5.
The earlier gearboxes used Bronze bearings and GL 5 causes them to pick up and wear badly. As previously stated slightly over fill, the reason is that the fifth speed is splash lubricated and the gallery is not well fed, on this point I ran a fleet of these vans and never had any gearbox issue's of any great note, in my view due to the drivers always were training for F1 qualifying !
Motorhomes are often driven far to low a speed in each gear and the load (torque) is high.
I would suggest not engaging fifth gear in under 2or3 miles in order to allow sufficient lubricant to reach the fifth speed gear housing
Another area worthy of service is the front hub bearings, they are taper bearings, with an end float achieved by a spacer between the bearings
The grease dries out over time and they are ignored due to the challenge of dismantling, a big mistake as a hub bearing on this range breakdown as the roadside is a real challenge. I would strip them and at the very least repack and fit new seals, probably fit new bearings as a matter of course.
Pressing out the bearings, removing the hub and setting the end float is possibly better done by a knowledgeable engineer, ideally one with Ducato experience
A schedule of work is a good place to start, as stated from Cam belt to oil changes, them brake fluid flush and change etc, working through a planned program.
A good chassis and reliable, however it is not a car and maintenance is required in order to keep you in good spirits.
Nice motorhome do enjoy.

 

[shepc]

Thanks for all the great advice and the time this has taken to provide

 

[airwave]

No , not quite correct.

Oh god , sorry mate , but i'm afraid i'm gonna have to pick you up on a couple of points here gus , because it's you that's not quite right .
First off TDI , google it and please feel free to post your findings , i'm afraid i simply can't be bothered .
Like you , i figured the " i " signified intercooler , until i discovered several years back the term actually pre-dated the use of such units . My research revealed that Tdi is actually a Volkswagen term . If i remember correctly , first used on the early golf's back in the 70's , when diesels had an image problem . It was an attempt to bring the diesel golf into the fore , and also into line with models like the Gti , itself in competition with Ford , and the likes of the Sport , Ghia , Gt , and then later the Rs series . Interestingly , the " i " in Gti also stood for injection , which in the days of carbed engines did offer a boost in performance , i read they slipped the " i " into Tdi and hoped no one would notice all diesels were actually injection . The point they were trying to make was , one vehicle with several different finish levels , producing cheaply 5 cars from one basic model . The problem was they only ever made two versions of diesel , Td and Tdi . Basically it was a form of badge envy . The term stuck though not until the introduction of the later intercooled Audi's , did it actually make sense . I have no idea if it was ever official changed , and quite frankly i don't care , but i can assure you , the original term was injection .
And so now i'm sure you can guess what the second point is . We have a new guy here , who is trying to learn about his engine , telling him he may have a unit fitted , when in actual fact he probably doesn't is far from helpful .
Fiat only began series fitting of intercooled units in 97 with the introduction of the 2.8 . No 2.5 units were ever fitted with such , though i have little doubt it is possible to fit retrospectively , beit costly . I would argue the performance boost would not be worth the outlay , but that is for individual owners to consider . I only know of one person who has done it , and to be honest i never heard of the outcome . It would appear to be rather straight forward upgrade , but likely an engine out job , putting it beyond many home mechanics ability .

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[JockandRita]

shepc. We had a Fiat Ducato based MH for 14 x years. It was 20 x years old when we sold it.
Fortunately my HGV mechanic pal did (and still does), most of the work for me, including complete suspension replacement front and rear.
Parts are easy to get, but the 5th gear assembly is becoming rare to obtain apparently. Glad to see that yours has already been done.

If you need any diesel specialist work done, these people at Hawarden Ave are excellent. https://www.welhamgroup.co.uk/

They repaired my leaky diesel pump at the kerb outside their workshops, rather than have me remove it and send it over to them. Seals on the actuator arm had perished, causing a fuel leak from the pump, which if detected at the time of the test, is an MOT failure. Great service from them, and very knowledgeable.

Good luck with it all. If you need some one to do work you are not confident of doing yourself, ie, cambelt kit and water pump replacement, I know a man that can, so give me a shout. I'm just north of Peterborough.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[PP Bear]

As an indication, I won’t change up into 5th, until my engine temp gauge tells me too. Silly ole ways, but keeps me in check with the pesky wear and tear issue.

 

[Itsmcb]

One item worthy of note is the oil used in the gearbox, a subtle difference but vital is that it's a GL4 specification not GL5.
The earlier gearboxes used Bronze bearings and GL 5 causes them to pick up and wear badly. As previously stated slightly over fill, the reason is that the fifth speed is splash lubricated and the gallery is not well fed, on this point I ran a fleet of these vans and never had any gearbox issue's of any great note, in my view due to the drivers always were training for F1 qualifying !
Motorhomes are often driven far to low a speed in each gear and the load (torque) is high.
I would suggest not engaging fifth gear in under 2or3 miles in order to allow sufficient lubricant to reach the fifth speed gear housing
Another area worthy of service is the front hub bearings, they are taper bearings, with an end float achieved by a spacer between the bearings
The grease dries out over time and they are ignored due to the challenge of dismantling, a big mistake as a hub bearing on this range breakdown as the roadside is a real challenge. I would strip them and at the very least repack and fit new seals, probably fit new bearings as a matter of course.
Pressing out the bearings, removing the hub and setting the end float is possibly better done by a knowledgeable engineer, ideally one with Ducato experience
A schedule of work is a good place to start, as stated from Cam belt to oil changes, them brake fluid flush and change etc, working through a planned program.
A good chassis and reliable, however it is not a car and maintenance is required in order to keep you in good spirits.
Nice motorhome do enjoy.

Any other tips gratefully received! as I mentioned above mine is a 1996 and I have no intention of changing it if I can help it. How would I draw up a realistic maintenance schedule? Any help in keeping the old girl on the road is appreciated

 

[busbuddy]

Hello folks.

I’m new to mo-homing and have recently bought a 1997 2.5 Fiat Ducato based Hymer B544 …and am loving it!

Any advice appreciated please for the best way to go about getting it mechanically serviced, MOT’d, etc.

I don’t mind getting my hands dirty myself (for simple stuff like oil & filter change), but it seems quite hard to even find a workshop manual for this kind of age vehicle.

I live in Leicestershire… so can you perhaps recommend a decent, reasonable value / indy van mechanic in the region that will be confident on older vehicles like mine?

All advice appreciated, with thanks,
Chris

As has been suggested..ark motors in sileby and there is also sh autos just outside of sileby, if you are over that side of leicestershire
The garage having the room and ramp for the van is the limiting factor

 

[airwave]

Any other tips gratefully received! as I mentioned above mine is a 1996 and I have no intention of changing it if I can help it. How would I draw up a realistic maintenance schedule? Any help in keeping the old girl on the road is appreciated

Oh god where do you wanna start . What kind of mechanic are you ? , what kind of work have you previously done ?

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[Itsmcb]

Oh god where do you wanna start . What kind of mechanic are you ? , what kind of work have you previously done ?

To be honest I used to do all my own car maintenance for many years so I do have a reasonable understanding over how everything works but since I now don't have a garage at home it's become impractical for most things. I take the camper to a local semi commercial garage for servicing and repairs. They do mostly vans and a few the guys there are in their fifties and sixties so have a good understanding of the older vehicles but it would be nice to have a checklist of things like the wheel bearings mentioned above which are maybe specific to Boxer/Ducatos of that age which probably aren't on the standard service checklist.

 

[stevewagner]

Engines of this vintage , are a really good place to learn . They don't have the fancy bits that quite frankly a diesel doesn't need . Once running it is entirely possible to remove the battery , because they don't actually need that either , only for starting . Unlike a petrol engine , the actual bang is created by pressure . Spark plugs are not even an optional extra , so straight away you have lost one of the most troublesome components of any engine , ignition . Feed it clean air , and clean fuel , and it will go on forever .
Modern diesels are a totally different beast . They are far more reliant on batteries , and there're tolerances are much tighter , making them a nightmare to work on . Certainly no place for a beginner to learn . They have added fancy bits , and are loaded with sensors which will go wrong at some point . Some of these even give false warnings , and lets not forget , a lit engine management light is now an mot failure . Added complication just where you don't need it , and just remove the battery , and see what happens .

Yes it is a TDI , all diesels are . Though a select few did use a form of carburettor in the past (actually i'm not even sure that stands today) , there're not fitted to diesels . They are almost certainly all injected , which is what the I stands for . I'm guessing you have a turbo , so that takes care of the T , and of course it's a diesel so there's your D . Turbo Diesel Injection . Only non turbo diesel are not tdi , and my car is one of them .
As @Silver-Fox , has already stated common sense and google will steer you round a good portion of the problems . As for forums , well yes there is , but to be honest it's not that good . I am a member there as well and pop over every once in a while , but vans of this era don't generally get mentioned . By far it mainly concerns vans of 2006 up , Even going back to past threads , tdi questions were quite light , which kind of reinforces what i said in my first post . In the time i've being a member , i think i've asked one questions , and that was answered by the moderator . I don't think anyone left who knows .

Ah don't confuse the guy , mate . That is the wrong one for his van , the reason i questioned it in the first place

Never been carburettors on diesel engines only injectors. The diesel ignites once the piston compresses the diesel and air mixture together which creates enough heat to ignite it. The sequence of events on a four stroke engine is induction, compression, ignition, exhaust or as some like to say suck, squeeze, bang, blow.

 

[airwave]

To be honest I used to do all my own car maintenance for many years so I do have a reasonable understanding over how everything works but since I now don't have a garage at home it's become impractical for most things. I take the camper to a local semi commercial garage for servicing and repairs. They do mostly vans and a few the guys there are in their fifties and sixties so have a good understanding of the older vehicles but it would be nice to have a checklist of things like the wheel bearings mentioned above which are maybe specific to Boxer/Ducatos of that age which probably aren't on the standard service checklist.

Okay well first off , it's difficult to have a schedule as i've found , on a twenty year old van , one job can quickly lead into another . An example of this , was my own rear wheel bearings . Dismantling the nearside rear hub i discovered a wet patch inside , on the axle hub . I rapidly found this was caused by a leaking wheel cylinder . Corrosion lead to a complete overhaul of the rear brakes , whereby everything on the rear axle was replaced . In for a penny , in for a pound i ended up replacing everything from the fuel tank back . The original job was planned for a weekend , but ended up taking a total of around three weeks as i didn't have the necessary brake pipe in stock (i make my own brake pipes) , plus had to order wheel cylinders , brake proportion valve , and flexible rear hose , along with new shoes and adjusters . The job also included releasing a seized handbrake adjuster , a complete change of fluid , and of course the original job , wheel bearings . The result was a 3 ton van , literally jumping out of the test rollers , taking the tester completely by surprise . Needless to say , it passed it's mot . Another problem is spares , i have just done a full cooling system rebuild which took close on a year to complete . Parts were difficult to source , with some parts listed on the suppliers computer , totally different to what i actually had fitted .
So what would i advise , well change the fluids especially the oil regularly . I do mine twice a year , new filter every time . I also change the air and fuel filters at the start of each year . It is a bit over the top , i admit , but during this work , i am inspecting the vehicle for any developing problems . My van is an A class , with all the access issues that brings . Yet i get my head and shoulders right into the engine bay . Now because my body is often blocking the light , i have both electric , and battery inspection lights . I examine every square inch i can see , then get under the thing , and do it all again . Anything i don't like is noted , brakes and steering is instant attention . Lubricate any pivots , hinges , etc , not forgetting the wiper swivels .
At the end of the year , i prepare the van for mot . Now this is quite a brutal inspection , and over the years i have learnt what to look for , but i'm still no expert . Wheels are removed , tyres are cleaned and inspected . I brutally test swivel pins , seals , steering components , and suspension . Test for play in the steering , examine the braking system under pressure for leaks . Pressure wash the inner wings , engine bay , and underside , actually i would advise this being done first . Lubricate and grease where needed . When i purchased the van i found the belly pan missing , this was the first thing i brought . It keeps all the crap and s**!? from the roads out of the engine bay . So cuts down corrosion , hence also premature wear , and helps keep the lubricating oils and grease where it should be . I leave the belly pan off for the mot inspection , the only time it is left off . I'm not trying to hide anything . My guy also acts like a second pair of eyes , if he see something , he points it out , and i deal with it . He even allows me under the vehicle while it's on the lift , and he's inspecting , knowing i'm inspecting as well . On one test i had , the inspector took one look under the car , and said it's not worth me looking under there . Laughing i asked him why ? , to which he replied it's all new . Well yeah it was , i had done a lot of work under there , but the car was actually 20 years old . It's 27 this year , and yes i still have it .
Now winding this up , the first thing i advise new mechanics to do is clean the engine . This is a good way for newbees to get to know their vehicle , but at the same time you get to know what goes where , and often does what . Because your cleaning , you are in a way inspecting , so really should it just be newbees . I mean like , nothing beats working on a clean motor does it ?

 

[mitzimad]

i always thought tdi was turbo direct injection

 

[airwave]

Never been carburettors on diesel engines only injectors.

Interesting , i suggest you re-read that post again , my actual words were ;

use a form of carburettor

Actually it was more of a metering device , but it used the same principle as a carb . I'm not quite sure why you continue on to recite the 4 stroke cycle though .

i always thought tdi was turbo direct injection

Yep , now you actually pricked my interest here , so i google it myself , and find you are quite correct . It is Turbo Direct Injection , actually it does sound better as well , i stand corrected !

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