New Motorhome Advice Needed and some questions (1 Viewer)

[Aido10]

Hi everyone, first post tonight. Been reading from afar for a while now. Delighted to become a member.

I've read a lot of great and very helpful advice already and I just wanted to hopefully try to get some help for my own questions before I take the plunge and purchase my first motorhome!

We're are a family of 4 (2 young kids - 2 and 4 in July) and we're looking to change from a caravan to a motorhome. I've researched for months now and think we are settled on a 4 berth twin fixed beds at the back for the kids and the drop down over cabin bed for ourselves. I've also spent a lot of time looking at models/brands matching that layout/style (and used vs New) and we are swaying towards the Hymer Exsis-i 580 pure special edition. There's a 2022 model available now to order for delivery in around Feb/March/Aprtil time 2022 on the Fiat chassis, automatic and from what I understand similar in spec to the pure 2021 model, except it's automatic and Fiat, not citreon.

The things on my mind at the moment stopping me from taking the plunge are some concerns around the payload and then around the actual cost given it's my first motorhome.

In terms of payload, I've seen loads of posts and I know you need to take the van to the weigh bridge but should I be concerned with around a 480kg payload with 4 of us? I've done some crude calculations and I think we should have more than enough but I am nervous that I am missing something.

The second thing is around the cost - I am not overly concerned about buying new, I just want to ensure that I've explored other options in around that price range. Are there any opinions around twin bed layouts in the same price bracket that would be a better fit or maybe even a better van? I don't believe I've seen too may negatives about Hymers in general and I've been very impressed with the brochures, reviews, info etc on this model. Perhaps there are some members who have opinion on the 580?

Sorry for the long post everyone! Thanks for taking the time to read (if you have!) and for any advice you may share. Hopefully this is my first post of many over the next many many years!

 

[Jonno1103]

Surely an extra battery, more solar & refillable gas tanks is dependant on how you plan using your motorhome?

 

[Jonno1103]

That's some very good advice and something I've been trying to think through. At the moment we usually take one each when we are in the caravan but it is a bit like musical beds depending on how the boys are sleeping. I was thinking it'll be the same for the first year or two with motorhome and then hopefully they go in together so we have the rear lounge and drop down bed (it's over the lounge) bathroom can still be accessed from both sides. The end lounge can also be closed over to give us some space when boys are older. There's also facilities to make a 5th bed but it's single. But it might help when they are older. In reality, by the time they are 12 and 14, we'll have moved on from this motorhome I would say. If we get 5-10 years enjoyment, family fun and memories from it, I'll be a happy man

Have you looked at motorhomes with bunk beds?

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[Aido10]

I m in the not too fussed about air con in the habitation as well.
Solar, extra battery and a gas system fitted is where I would start, once he/she doesnt agree to that tell him/her that youll pay for the gas system at cost but want the BBQ point as well and he/she can throw in the battery and solar to save you buying it at the other dealer (he/she will know if that is plausible or not so dont blag too much). Once he/she has agreed to that get some toilet fluid off him/her. Its a sellers market atm so anything is a plus.

Good luck with explaining to the wife if it doesnt go through as well as she has it going through in her head.

Thanks! That’s the problem. My wife said to me there when I finished work, have you rang the man yet . I’m waiting to Monday at earliest and if it’s gone, it wasn’t meant to be. Want to mull over it again a bit more

 

[Aido10]

Have you looked at motorhomes with bunk beds?

We did, and twin singles. We didn’t feel like we had the space that we need with two boys and us. Is there a van you’d recommend looking at? We really like the thought of having two social type areas for rainy days/nights when away

 

[Captain Yoghurtpot]

I was thinking it'll be the same for the first year or two with motorhome and then hopefully they go in together so we have the rear lounge and drop down bed

Just another thought, and please believe me, I am not trying to take away from your excitement, but if the two boys are together in the middle drop down bed and you are relaxing in the rear lounge but keeping an eye on them and their moving in their sleep, when you go to bed you will not be watching them as you are asleep.
I take it the sleeping position is transverse of the beds, ie widthways and if so, you will probably need to fit roll guards or netting to the side of each bed on the mid one over the lounge because each side is open and it could be a fair drop for a youngster to fall if they should fall out of bed in their sleep.
Does the drop down mid bed come with side guards, or is it so low to the floor as not to be necessary.
Personally I don’t think it will go lower than 2 to 2 and a half feet due to the kitchen units, but I could be very wrong.
Might be worth checking.

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[Aido10]

Just another thought, and please believe me, I am not trying to take away from your excitement, but if the two boys are together in the middle drop down bed and you are relaxing in the rear lounge but keeping an eye on them and their moving in their sleep, when you go to bed you will not be watching them as you are asleep.
I take it the sleeping position is transverse of the beds, ie widthways and if so, you will probably need to fit roll guards or netting to the side of each bed on the mid one over the lounge because each side is open and it could be a fair drop for a youngster to fall if they should fall out of bed in their sleep.
Does the drop down mid bed come with side guards, or is it so low to the floor as not to be necessary.
Personally I don’t think it will go lower than 2 to 2 and a half feet due to the kitchen units, but I could be very wrong.
Might be worth checking.

You are exactly right. We’re looking at getting side guards for that exact reason. The end lounge bed goes quite low so not as pressing a concern. The one over the cab as you say is still quite high so side guards are a must for us. It’s something I’m trying to get right with research over the weekend before deciding to make a final offer or not. That’s the main concern at the moment for me. The sleeping arrangements for the boys. And safety. And the fact that I was always told not to pay listed price!

 

[Captain Yoghurtpot]

The one over the cab as you say is still quite high so side guards are a must for us.

Is this correct?
I thought one bed was over the rear L shape area, the other dropping down in the middle of the van, not dropping down over the cab area at the front.
It is a Burstner744 you are looking at , isn’t it?
I have looked at a video for that van at Camper UK.
Just google Camper UK and do a bit of digging on their site.
Only trying to help in what will be an enormous decision.

 

[Aido10]

Is this correct?
I thought one bed was over the rear L shape area, the other dropping down in the middle of the van, not dropping down over the cab area at the front.
It is a Burstner744 you are looking at , isn’t it?
I have looked at a video for that van at Camper UK.
Just google Camper UK and do a bit of digging on their site.
Only trying to help in what will be an enormous decision.

sorry I meant the front bed which is over the front lounge area as you go in main door. Suppose it’s not quite the middle and not quite the front. I’ve been in the 744 and 745 quite a few times now.

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[RubyOptics]

sorry I meant the front bed which is over the front lounge area as you go in main door. Suppose it’s not quite the middle and not quite the front. I’ve been in the 744 and 745 quite a few times now.

I too am not trying in any way to "rain on your parade" but rather just give some food for thought. You said that you really like the idea of having 2 social areas for rainy nights/days. With your kids being quite young, they are going to be going to bed quite early, so that front lounge is going to be out of use for the majority of the evening for you. Also, from a look at the floor plan, it looks like that centre drop down bed that the kids will be using is going to cover most, if not all of, your hab door. That's going to make getting in and out of the van a right PITA if you want to sit outside under the awning enjoying a glass of wine once the kids are in bed. What if either you or your wife wants to go to bed before the other? Where does the other person go? The only places you have left are outside if the weather is nice, or sitting in the cab seats. Our kids are a bit older than yours, but we are wrestling with exactly these problems ourselves. May i suggest you have a look at this one as i think this type of layout may just offer a bit more flexibilty to you and solve a few of the problems. As i said earlier though, i really would, from firsthand experience, recommend renting before spending 70k

Edit - also on that site, have a look at the SC740 as well - rear bunks for the kids as well as a small "hang out" area for them with a moveable table and twin rear seats. The one I linked has this too but when using the seating area you lose most of your garage space. On the longer van you get the space AND keep your garage due to the longer length.

 

[Captain Yoghurtpot]

I too am not trying in any way to "rain on your parade" but rather just give some food for thought. You said that you really like the idea of having 2 social areas for rainy nights/days. With your kids being quite young, they are going to be going to bed quite early, so that front lounge is going to be out of use for the majority of the evening for you. Also, from a look at the floor plan, it looks like that centre drop down bed that the kids will be using is going to cover most, if not all of, your hab door. That's going to make getting in and out of the van a right PITA if you want to sit outside under the awning enjoying a glass of wine once the kids are in bed. What if either you or your wife wants to go to bed before the other? Where does the other person go? The only places you have left are outside if the weather is nice, or sitting in the cab seats. Our kids are a bit older than yours, but we are wrestling with exactly these problems ourselves. May i suggest you have a look at this one as i think this type of layout may just offer a bit more flexibilty to you and solve a few of the problems. As i said earlier though, i really would, from firsthand experience, recommend renting before spending 70k

Edit - also on that site, have a look at the SC740 as well - rear bunks for the kids as well as a small "hang out" area for them with a moveable table and twin rear seats. The one I linked has this too but when using the seating area you lose most of your garage space. On the longer van you get the space AND keep your garage due to the longer length.

That’s impressive!
And a very good point I was about to make re the habitation door position on the Burstner re the middle drop down bed and access.

 

[Aido10]

That’s impressive!

I agree! RubyOptics why are you making my decision making so difficult

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[Captain Yoghurtpot]

Some very good points made by Ruby Optics, especially re hiring first.
CamperUK is a site worth checking out for new, used and hiring.
Definitely worth a good look.
Please though don’t rush.
70k is a lot of money.

 

[RubyOptics]

That’s impressive!
And a very good point I was about to make re the habitation door position on the Burstner re the middle drop down bed and access.

It's a very well thought-out layout in many ways. I only really know about it as we are currently in exactly the same position as the OP, only with older kids! Having had our small 6.3m bunk-bed moho for a year-ish has allowed us to look at other layouts and see some of the less-obvious problems i think!

 

[RubyOptics]

I agree! RubyOptics why are you making my decision making so difficult

Sorry! I just think that the Burstner, whilst very very nice (we have an old Burstner and love it!) is going to cause some problems for you that you might not have considered. I would bet a nice bottle of something that after the first few days away you'll end up putting the kids in the larger, rear bed as getting in and out of the van will be too annoying to do every night. Me and my wife regularly go to bed a little bit later or earlier than each other doing one thing or another (our current layout is a big overcab double and 2 rear bunk-beds for the kids) and with this layout you aren't really going to be able to do that. If this isn't an issue for you and your wife then that's great! If it is though, it's worth thinking about now before you spend the money. It's also worth thinking about WHEN you will use the van. You said about the twin lounge arrangement to have extra living space. If you are only going to go away for the summer, then this mostly shouldn't be a problem as you will be able to be outside with a nice big awning up. We live in Poland and use our van all year round and an awning in -20 isn't all that fun! If you are also going to use yours through more of the year i completely agree that giving the kids a bit of space for their own is a fantastic idea, which is one big reason I linked those A-classes to you. If you are going to use the van year round, make sure to check how or even IF the van is winterised. An OK solution is to have an insulated and heated grey tank, but the heaters use a LOT of power so unless you go the lithium battery route aren't really great for off-grid stuff. The better (but more expensive) way is to have a van where both the grey and fresh water tanks are inside the habitation "bubble", this is normally done with a double floor but as i said, does tend to mean the van is more expensive in the first place.

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[Captain Yoghurtpot]

It's a very well thought-out layout in many ways. I only really know about it as we are currently in exactly the same position as the OP, only with older kids! Having had our small 6.3m bunk-bed moho for a year-ish has allowed us to look at other layouts and see some of the less-obvious problems i think!

Yes, we have considered changing our van with overcab double, Side dinette double and rear single dinette as we also have no lounge space per se if the weather is inclement, as our van is predominantly a continental van used mainly for outside living. And we use a stand-alone inflatable summer house / awning.
But in the current medical climate I am loathed to change to anything at present as I am not confident on when we will be getting away anywhere, and it won’t be long before it’s Autumn again, and so the cycle goes on.
Think when things calm down I too will be looking at A classes with drop down bed over folding cab seats at the front, with a rear lounge that doubles as a dining, or sleeping area or lounging area and 4 belted seats just behind the cab seats.
That is if such an animal exists, or comes up for sale.

 

[RubyOptics]

Yes, we have considered changing our van with overcab double, Side dinette double and rear single dinette as we also have no lounge space per se if the weather is inclement, as our van is predominantly a continental van used mainly for outside living. And we use a stand-alone inflatable summer house / awning.
But in the current medical climate I am loathed to change to anything at present as I am not confident on when we will be getting away anywhere, and it won’t be long before it’s Autumn again, and so the cycle goes on.
Think when things calm down I too will be looking at A classes with drop down bed over folding cab seats at the front, with a rear lounge that doubles as a dining, or sleeping area or lounging area and 4 belted seats just behind the cab seats.
That is if such an animal exists, or comes up for sale.

In some ways we are very lucky. We live in Poland so we are LHD and Germany is just a couple of hours drive away with the myriad of vans that are for sale there. In other ways Poland is a bu**er though...we are, I believe, the only country in the EU to have an 18.6% excise on vehicles bought within the EU (if they have an engine over 2 litre). It's annoying looking at some great priced vans and then remembering I have to add nearly another 20% on to every bloody price I see.

 

[Jonno1103]

18.6% excise on vehicles bought within the EU (if they have an engine over 2 litre).

Since 2017 the Ford Transit is 2 litre ecoblue

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[RubyOptics]

Since 2017 the Ford Transit is 2 litre ecoblue

Yes, but the amount of manufacturers using the Ford is much smaller and I don't know of a single A-class that's based on a Ford chassis?

 

[Aido10]

Sorry! I just think that the Burstner, whilst very very nice (we have an old Burstner and love it!) is going to cause some problems for you that you might not have considered. I would bet a nice bottle of something that after the first few days away you'll end up putting the kids in the larger, rear bed as getting in and out of the van will be too annoying to do every night. Me and my wife regularly go to bed a little bit later or earlier than each other doing one thing or another (our current layout is a big overcab double and 2 rear bunk-beds for the kids) and with this layout you aren't really going to be able to do that. If this isn't an issue for you and your wife then that's great! If it is though, it's worth thinking about now before you spend the money. It's also worth thinking about WHEN you will use the van. You said about the twin lounge arrangement to have extra living space. If you are only going to go away for the summer, then this mostly shouldn't be a problem as you will be able to be outside with a nice big awning up. We live in Poland and use our van all year round and an awning in -20 isn't all that fun! If you are also going to use yours through more of the year i completely agree that giving the kids a bit of space for their own is a fantastic idea, which is one big reason I linked those A-classes to you. If you are going to use the van year round, make sure to check how or even IF the van is winterised. An OK solution is to have an insulated and heated grey tank, but the heaters use a LOT of power so unless you go the lithium battery route aren't really great for off-grid stuff. The better (but more expensive) way is to have a van where both the grey and fresh water tanks are inside the habitation "bubble", this is normally done with a double floor but as i said, does tend to mean the van is more expensive in the first place.

Really like the sc740, don’t think it’s as nice inside as the burstner but I can see why it’s a better option for us in terms of practicality. Although back to the payload issue. I need to do more research but can it be upgraded in weight? And winterisation/double floor. How does that compare to the burstner? I can now see how the points you’ve mentioned would restrict us in the future on the burstner. There will be no final offer made on Monday. What is it there say about happy wife happy life. Whoops

 

[RubyOptics]

Yes, the Iteneo can be upgraded. In terms of winterisation it's pretty similar in that you can pay extra for a heated/insulated grey water tank. What about renting a van you like over the summer and then going to the big Dusseldorf show from 27/8-05/9. You could see every layout under the sun there and try out a lot of things that aren't generally available to see normally. Motorhoming with kids is difficult, and your kids are at an age where things are going to be changing pretty quickly over the coming years. I know you've said that if you need to change it in 5 years or so, then that's fine, but even in that time period you've gone from having a 4 and a 2 year old to a 9 and 7 year old and those are completely different beasts!! May i ask how you think you will be using the van? Will it be a once or twice a year for a big holiday? Or more regularly for weekends away? Will you want to use it in the winter? Answers to these will help us to show you vans that may fit your needs better!

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[Aido10]

Yes, the Iteneo can be upgraded. In terms of winterisation it's pretty similar in that you can pay extra for a heated/insulated grey water tank. What about renting a van you like over the summer and then going to the big Dusseldorf show from 27/8-05/9. You could see every layout under the sun there and try out a lot of things that aren't generally available to see normally. Motorhoming with kids is difficult, and your kids are at an age where things are going to be changing pretty quickly over the coming years. I know you've said that if you need to change it in 5 years or so, then that's fine, but even in that time period you've gone from having a 4 and a 2 year old to a 9 and 7 year old and those are completely different beasts!! May i ask how you think you will be using the van? Will it be a once or twice a year for a big holiday? Or more regularly for weekends away? Will you want to use it in the winter? Answers to these will help us to show you vans that may fit your needs better!

A combination of both. Summers touring Ireland/Europe/uk for 4-8 weeks. Probably 2-3 weeks at another point through the year. And then definitively 1-2 weekends away/ day trips each month or more. My work is flexible so plan is to get out as much as possible through Friday to Monday on normal weeks

 

[Aido10]

Thanks everyone for the advice. I’ve decided to hold off buying this year, continue to use the caravan. Get the c1 license and keep an eye on the used market. We want two lounges. Bed over the cab and probably option for 5/6 seated/berth so we’ll hold off until we feel like we aren’t make any sacrifices. Kon tiki 649 feels like a layout that we could get work well for us so ’ll be looking at renting similar, and looking at similar models in the market but not rushing. Thanks again for all the advice. I’ll be watching the forum closely over the next 12 months

 

[Captain Yoghurtpot]

Thanks everyone for the advice. I’ve decided to hold off buying this year, continue to use the caravan. Get the c1 license and keep an eye on the used market. We want two lounges. Bed over the cab and probably option for 5/6 seated/berth so we’ll hold off until we feel like we aren’t make any sacrifices. Kon tiki 649 feels like a layout that we could get work well for us so ’ll be looking at renting similar, and looking at similar models in the market but not rushing. Thanks again for all the advice. I’ll be watching the forum closely over the next 12 months

A very sensible conclusion if I may offer my opinion.
I do not think you will regret it.
You will get what you need , just keep looking and learning and asking loads of questions and, when on site with your caravan, get talking to some motorhome owners and asking them opinions on your needs.
They may even show you their own vans to help you.
All the very best and most importantly, Enjoy!