new licence type (1 Viewer)

[pappajohn]

some one mentioned this at linton lock and i found this on the practical motorhome website...

unfortunately i cant find anymore info. :Sad:

There may also be a new Leisure Vehicle category defined for driving licence purposes, and this might just sort out some of the present anomalies.

we'll see.. and it probably wont be applied retrospectively.

 

[ArenqueRojo]

Don't the French have such a licence?
Might be part of homogenization
Patrick

 

[vwalan]

hi pappa if you study that practical motermome article you should read that they dont really have the faintist idea about what they are writing. well a little bit is right but its a wortless article. just like most of the rubbish in the press. will try and get some info from swansea tomorrow.cheers alan.

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[moandick]

Hi Guys

I am not going to go into this too deeply other than to say the subject has been brought about by EU licence harmonisation.

What it means is that all passenger carrying vehicles are classified as 'M' category for the VOSA IVA scheme, anything to do with Goods carrying vehicles comes under the 'N' category and anything to do with trailers comes under the 'O' category.

Motorhomes are classified in the 'M1' class - motor vehicles constructed to include living accommodation including the following equipment - table and seats, beds, cooking facilities etc. - and are thus designated 'Special Purpose vehicles'.

Fifth wheelers might be a problem as being designated as category 'O' (trailers) rather than category 'M' (passenger carrying) and might be subject to HGV laws etc.

Under the harmonisation of driving licence documents issued by the EU Page 7, Article 6, para 4 (b) 'Vehicles exceeding a MAM of 3500kg may be driven by a B licence (car licence) providing that the licence holder is over 21, has held that B licence for more than 2 years, providing that the vehicle when stationary can ONLY be used for recreational purposes and is being used for social and domestic purposes by a non-commercial body and the vehicle cannot carry more than 9 people or transport any goods otheer than those necessary for the purpose of living in the motorhome.'

Different RV dealers have interpreted those statements as different licences - one saying that you can drive a 20 tonne motorhome on a car licence - another as saying that DVLA require you to have a B licence for a car, a C1 licence for over 3½ tonnes and a C licence for over 7½ tonnes.

The RVDA is currently disputing the DVLA interpretation of the wording of the harmonisation document and meantime we have to continue with that very grey area of licences.

 

[ginge61]

or just get what ever you want what a farce it all is :Angry::Angry:oh:Link Removed

 

[moandick]

Is it April the 1st - or am I losing my sense of humour?


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How utterly, ridiculously stupid - how can it be legal just to 'buy' a licence?

I wonder just how acceptable one of these licences would be in the event of you being responsible for a fatal accident?

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[vwalan]

i spoke to the dept of transport at great minster house today and was told to speak to dvla at swansea . i rang swansea and told b cat up to 3.5ton ci for over 3.5-7.5. as we know it. they tell me its not happening as far as they know and would not advise b licence holders to drive larger vehicles unless you have d/c type categories.so i cant help anymore than dick we will have to wait and see. i say every body should ring dvla and question them i spoke to a lady called evette. sounded helpfull but couldnt help any more. cheers alan.

 

[vwalan]

as to the european driving licence fiasco. yes it is possible . i have met spanish people who have used an english address to change their spanish licence to a uk one . as they had a car licence before 97 uk gave them ci+e. b+e tec then they change it back to spanish insisting they keep all categories then they can have a 7.5 ton truck conversion camper. it does seem things are highly stupid ,cant put it any differently. lots of uk have lost m,cycle licences when changing over so you must always check your licence when ever you get a new one. cheers alan,

 

[Phil]

Slightly off topic but a few years ago I used my motorcycle licence to obtain an International Driving Permit and it covered me to drive all vehicles up to 7.5 tons.

Phil.

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[pappajohn]

Slightly off topic but a few years ago I used my motorcycle licence to obtain an International Driving Permit and it covered me to drive all vehicles up to 7.5 tons.

Phil.

but only on the back of a full uk licence to drive said vehicles.

if you hadnt passed a test for the vehicle you still werent entitled to drive it.

 

[pappajohn]

as to the european driving licence fiasco. yes it is possible . i have met spanish people who have used an english address to change their spanish licence to a uk one . as they had a car licence before 97 uk gave them ci+e. b+e tec then they change it back to spanish insisting they keep all categories then they can have a 7.5 ton truck conversion camper. it does seem things are highly stupid ,cant put it any differently. lots of uk have lost m,cycle licences when changing over so you must always check your licence when ever you get a new one. cheers alan,

even better, fotocopy your old one BEFORE you send it for replacement.

then you have evidence of your catagories when yours comes back with "roadroller only"oh:

 

[lebesset]

well , we now seem to have two threads running on exactly the same subject ; perhaps spmebody could amalgamate them

in the meantime

EUobserver / One driving licence agreed for all the EU

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[vwalan]

hi lebesset, i would say thats of no help on this thread as its really aboutthe licence its selfnot the categories on it. think this is why we have confusion about things. i spoke to dvla today and uk b category definately ends at 3,500kg. they were very pleasant but totally adamant uk licence can and may be different in categories to uk but they dont know about french categories. i,m nearly confusing me now .hope you can understand what i mean. ha ha .alan.

 

[lebesset]

alan , my point is that there is a timescale for the euro licence , and clearly there is already provision for some changes as the new system is introduced ...at least from this we know that we should not be disadvantaged compared to other europeans , and this cross border scam will be stopped

 

[vwalan]

i still think it refers to us all having photo card licence. at the moment it works in many ways many living abroad keep swapping there licence and getting duplicates so if you get stopped you can produce a clean or current licence. very dodgy . it also could be to help stop people not getting their licence changed to a correct address etc .i have heard of cars being lifted in spain due to mot /tax not being correct. as you know lots never register in the correct country. are you off to spain later ?cheers alan.

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[mikamada]

Under the harmonisation of driving licence documents issued by the EU Page 7, Article 6, para 4 (b) 'Vehicles exceeding a MAM of 3500kg may be driven by a B licence (car licence) providing that the licence holder is over 21, has held that B licence for more than 2 years, providing that the vehicle when stationary can ONLY be used for recreational purposes and is being used for social and domestic purposes by a non-commercial body and the vehicle cannot carry more than 9 people or transport any goods otheer than those necessary for the purpose of living in the motorhome.'

Dick,
The key point on Article 6 Para 4 in Directive 2006/126/EC is that it states at the begining "Member States may, after consulting the Commission, authorise the driving on their territory"...

This means that it is at the Discretion of the Member State and it is only related to driving on their territory. As with many Directives the Commission gives considerable latitude to individual member states but most, especially the UK, choose not to take advantage but implement rules which are more stringent.

Personally I cannot see how there can be any misinterpretation that the Directive only offers discretion to Member States and does not mandate. It does not say that Member States "must" or "will" but states "may".

As it stands the UK has not requested such an exemption or variation and considering their over zealous application of the Directive regarding motorcycle tests it is, IMHO, highly unlikely they would request such an exemption.

Please also note that the final words of Article 6(4)(b) are:

"or for the transport of any goods other than those strictly necessary for their purposes." and NOT "or transport any goods otheer than those necessary for the purpose of living in the motorhome. ". You may access the Directive at:

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[moandick]

There may also be a new Leisure Vehicle category defined for driving licence purposes, and this might just sort out some of the present anomalies.
.

Hi Adam

I was simply trying to point out to the original poster why there was some discussion on the 'new' category - and to explain briefly why the RVDA are challenging the DVLA interpretation of the documents.

I did say right at the start that I did not want to talk about it in detail simply because it would start to bore the pants off of everybody, once again - and we still really don't know what is happening anyway!

 

[weymard]

FRENCH CATEGORY : B all vehicles under 3500 kg (7716,18 pounds) WHITHOUT TRAILER (for trailer specific rules , schematically: under 750 kg without break license B, above 750 kg with break you need license E , in reality it is more complex ....),
EXCEPTION and NEW RULE for license B: if you got your B license driver before January 1975 you are authorized to drive all MOTOR-HOME above 3500 kg (without trailer) , at this time the maximum weight is unknowns !!!

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[lebesset]

having started this [ in another thread ] may I just point out that although france permits the driving of motor homes over 3.5 tonnes by people who have only a licence for that weight , this involves qualifying for and obtaining a B camping car licence ....even if you qualify you have to have that piece of paper ...available only to french residents

so the ' permitting on their territory ' bit need qualifying , france brought in the change immediately after the 2006 directive quoted , but only for drivers who were qualified previous to their reduction to a 3.5 tonne licence in 1975, with a special licence or so it appears ; so a sort of halfway house

so much for standardised euro licence groups , won't be seen in my lifetime !

since posting this , a motorhoming neighbour [ french of course ] just dropped in and we discussed the matter ; he owns a plant hire company and has a 44 tonne licence so isn't involved , but his understanding is that there is no new document in france , the date of your original licence is on the current one , and the gendarmerie will look at that if you are over 3.5 tonnes ; we shall see !

ps for alan ...autumn is just arriving in southern france , so a few more weeks to prepare the vegetable garden for the spring and sort out the motorhome and it will indeed be time to head for iberia ; for medical reasons usa/mexico are beyond us now , and regrettably everywhere else in europe is too cold so ............

 

[pappajohn]

Hi Adam

I was simply trying to point out to the original poster why there was some discussion on the 'new' category - and to explain briefly why the RVDA are challenging the DVLA interpretation of the documents.

I did say right at the start that I did not want to talk about it in detail simply because it would start to bore the pants off of everybody, once again - and we still really don't know what is happening anyway!

agreed...oh:

i posted the thread as a point of interest....not to start a discusion group.

 

[moandick]

agreed...oh:
i posted the thread as a point of interest....not to start a discusion group.

Ahh-Haagh - so it is all your fault, is it? :Angry:

Be aware - the boys will be around later.......:Cool::Cool:

Soon sort you out. :Sad:

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[pappajohn]

Ahh-Haagh - so it is all your fault, is it? :Angry:

Be aware - the boys will be around later.......:Cool::Cool:

Soon sort you out. :Sad:

could they stop off on the way and get me some milk and half an ounce of baccy please....save me going out.

 

[moandick]

Gold, silver or green top?

 

[pappajohn]

:thumb:

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[vwalan]

good afternoon. think between us we sorted that one out. was a very good discusion . nobody fell out and we all learnt something .if we get a camping licence we will be more confused than we are now. we could nearly have had a north south divide. cheers alan.