New Forest campsites: Rent deferral offer to reopen

What a shame that the sites are not opening, i can understand not having facilities available but as most of us are self sufficient, surely opening sites, taking advance bookings and perhaps limited numbers is a win win situation for motorhomers and local businesses.
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Seems a bit strange as non Camping in the Forest are open as are others in the rest of the county.

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B-well said:
i can understand not having facilities available but as most of us are self sufficient, surely opening sites, taking advance bookings and perhaps limited numbers is a win win situation for motorhomers and local businesses.
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Yes, there are sites opening without opening the toilets/showers.
 
I think the truth behind it is staff. They let all the part time wardens go, and can't get the staffing for them in time, along with the training etc.

I do wonder what has happened regarding seasonal pitches and storage at some of the sites.
 
I always thought it stupid to hand over control to the camping and caravanning club due to the conflict of interests
 
They say for hygiene reasons but some of the sites don't have facilities anyway.
The staff were let go after the decision not to open.i think seasonals had to leave as well.
More to this than meets the eye.
Perhaps to get campers to use club sites?
 
danielf said:
The decision was I think politically motivated by camping club those sites make stacks in august if you look at the accounts and Turnover etc. More to it than hygiene 😔
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I have taken a quick look at the lodged annual accounts for the LLP and can't see where the P&L statements are by month. Do you have a link for last August's P&L statement?

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cornish boy said:
I have taken a quick look at the lodged annual accounts for the LLP and can't see where the P&L statements are by month. Do you have a link for last August's P&L statement?
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sorry - poorly worded - I should have said must make most income in August.

having spoken to a contact previously new Forest sites make most income late July/August as you would expect I suppose.

Daniel.
 
They could always put pay and display machines in and turn them into aires, converting the toilets into dump stations. The only staffing needed would be a person in a van going round checking tickets.

I'm on a barrier controlled aire atm, pull up to barrier go to machine insert reg number and length of stay whether you want water or not, and it gives you a receipt with a number. initial investment would pay for itself very quickly.
 
With some 3000 pitches in the New Forest alone, there is no way that C&CC sites would cope with that amount of displaced campers if it was to get people onto their own operated sites. For the New Forest the nearest C&CC site is at Verwood, which whilst labelled "new forest" is well outside of the national park area. The peak season, and pricing is mid July through August in England (slightly earlier in Scotland so they had perhaps missed the peak there). Unless the weather was really poor they could expect their full facility, and no doubt a couple of less amenity sites in the New Forest to be rammed. Overall the operation was very profitable according to companies house filed accounts so this wasn't about money. Indeed, if the rent deferral option is now being offered as an incentive, but as with most businesses who have leases they still have to pay even if closed, they will have large losses to cover just by staying closed.

It is speculation why they won't open, it's a combination of factors. Most of their sites are very open, without formally defined pitches. Some do attract quite large groups who will form their own coralle. No doubt that had a major part of their concern if only for how their staff could control a sitre.

For the full facilities sites, the toilet / shower blocks are impossible to keep clean and tidy. They are just so heavily used. Yes they will do a full clean each morning, usually closing each block in rotation for an hour or so, and then there are a couple more checks during the day and evening. Realistically they can't as most sites have done. close every other washbasin, shower, toilet cubicle, there just won't be enough as even normally there could be long queues especially for showers. They would have to slash capacity on those sites, which would change viability.

Although many sites are basic, water tap and dump point only, even those may need reduced capacity to ensure distancing. If the pitches aren't defined, inevitably some take more space, that then squeezes up others. I can't see how you could open limited facility sites without opening all sites. You'll get people without facilities trying to pitch (if there are concerns over illegal wildcamping, then some will try and use legit sites), and then all the issues that will cause when those people need the toilet.

The big issue must have been staffing. Most will be seasonal workers. If they were not full employees, were they capable of being furloughed to keep them available? I suspect many, by the time it came that opening would be allowed, had simply found some other work to do. Moving staff around perhaps they could have covered a few, but not all, sites, especially if they wanted extra staffing to cope with the increased distancing and stuff.

But they can't open now, regardless of incentives. Their staff have been let go. It would take a lot of effort to recruit enough, then train, on top of any other covid-19 measures needed.

All that can now be hoped is that this debacle doesn't continue to next year so they will operate normally.
 
I
Kannon Fodda said:
With some 3000 pitches in the New Forest alone, there is no way that C&CC sites would cope with that amount of displaced campers if it was to get people onto their own operated sites. For the New Forest the nearest C&CC site is at Verwood, which whilst labelled "new forest" is well outside of the national park area. The peak season, and pricing is mid July through August in England (slightly earlier in Scotland so they had perhaps missed the peak there). Unless the weather was really poor they could expect their full facility, and no doubt a couple of less amenity sites in the New Forest to be rammed. Overall the operation was very profitable according to companies house filed accounts so this wasn't about money. Indeed, if the rent deferral option is now being offered as an incentive, but as with most businesses who have leases they still have to pay even if closed, they will have large losses to cover just by staying closed.

It is speculation why they won't open, it's a combination of factors. Most of their sites are very open, without formally defined pitches. Some do attract quite large groups who will form their own coralle. No doubt that had a major part of their concern if only for how their staff could control a sitre.

For the full facilities sites, the toilet / shower blocks are impossible to keep clean and tidy. They are just so heavily used. Yes they will do a full clean each morning, usually closing each block in rotation for an hour or so, and then there are a couple more checks during the day and evening. Realistically they can't as most sites have done. close every other washbasin, shower, toilet cubicle, there just won't be enough as even normally there could be long queues especially for showers. They would have to slash capacity on those sites, which would change viability.

Although many sites are basic, water tap and dump point only, even those may need reduced capacity to ensure distancing. If the pitches aren't defined, inevitably some take more space, that then squeezes up others. I can't see how you could open limited facility sites without opening all sites. You'll get people without facilities trying to pitch (if there are concerns over illegal wildcamping, then some will try and use legit sites), and then all the issues that will cause when those people need the toilet.

The big issue must have been staffing. Most will be seasonal workers. If they were not full employees, were they capable of being furloughed to keep them available? I suspect many, by the time it came that opening would be allowed, had simply found some other work to do. Moving staff around perhaps they could have covered a few, but not all, sites, especially if they wanted extra staffing to cope with the increased distancing and stuff.

But they can't open now, regardless of incentives. Their staff have been let go. It would take a lot of effort to recruit enough, then train, on top of any other covid-19 measures needed.

All that can now be hoped is that this debacle doesn't continue to next year so they will operate normally.
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I see nothing wrong with undefined pitches. There is no way that we need to socially distance our MHs.
IMO we need to move to a phase where those who are vulnerable need to be allowed to asses their requirements and those that don't need to respect their wishes, pre CV19 it was called common courtesy and it exists in most of the places where people go to relax.
 
Common courtesy is fine, when it happens. Not always the case though. Remember too that CITF is not just for motorhomers, there will be caravans, campervans (without any facilities) and many in tents. They can't discriminate and only allow one type of user, they probably have enough issues on the non facility sites that punters must have their own toilet.

But yes, if the world is to move forward, and extricate itself from Covid we must accept that locking down all to protect a few is potentially more damaging to the whole than allowing those who are vulnerable to take their precautions. We simply cannot wrap up everyone in cotton wool, and those that are able to get out should be able to do so.

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Kannon Fodda said:
Common courtesy is fine, when it happens. Not always the case though. Remember too that CITF is not just for motorhomers, there will be caravans, campervans (without any facilities) and many in tents. They can't discriminate and only allow one type of user, they probably have enough issues on the non facility sites that punters must have their own toilet.
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I can't remember whether it was the first time or the second time we went to Setthorns.....there was a woman and two young kids in VW camper behind us checking in but her unit didn't have a bathroom and she was actually quite nasty to the wardens who were trying their best to find some way to help her. They offered to hire her a portaloo ("Do you have an awning to put it in?" "No!"), they offered to phone one of the other campsites with facilities and have her reservation transferred there (apparently that wasn't acceptable because her husband would be joining them later and he had no way of contacting him to tell him they'd be on a different campsite (really???). The poor wardens couldn't win no matter what they suggested.....apparently it was their fault that she and her husband had booked a campsite where they needed their own loo "no-one told us we needed our own facilities" :unsure:

I'm really disappointed the CITF sites won't be opening this year and I think that overall the C&CC haven't handled the Covid situation very well (wasn't it the C&CC that basically chucked everyone off the campsites and didn't care whether they had somewhere to go?). We're only members because of their virtual monopoly on the New Forest sites, otherwise I'd not bother renewing our membership.
 
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I suspect there is more to this than meets the eye.

Obviously having fired all the staff, they are going to find it very very hard to employ new staff as everyone knows everyone in a small rural community like that, and I'd guess the word has gone out to say "don't even think about it ...."

But I suspect the other big issue will be the local NF Defence Force, who are very vocal and hate tourists and especially campers and cyclists.
As far as they are concerned this situation will be a big win.
They will be doing their best to ensure they never re-open
 
So some sites have decided not to open, lets be honest - it is their right to decide if they want to or not.
I can't see the issue to be fair, isn't it simply a case of picking somewhere else to stay or am I missing something?

As for the NF Defence Force, in 35 years of visiting and using the New Forest, I can hand on heart say that every local I have met and/or spoken with has been friendly and welcoming.

I am at a loss to know what some people must do or say, to be able to upset an entire community.
 
Brains said:
I suspect there is more to this than meets the eye.

Obviously having fired all the staff, they are going to find it very very hard to employ new staff as everyone knows everyone in a small rural community like that, and I'd guess the word has gone out to say "don't even think about it ...."

But I suspect the other big issue will be the local NF Defence Force, who are very vocal and hate tourists and especially campers and cyclists.
As far as they are concerned this situation will be a big win.
They will be doing their best to ensure they never re-open
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I have lived in the New Forest for 30 years and the attitude to visitors is largely
positive. Many businesses in Brockenhurst and Burley rely on visitors, as do those in Lymington. Yes, we get fed up with those who don't respect the desire to keep the environment as pristine as possible, but those are generally a minority. The decision not to open the sites is short sighted and very open to question, as many local businesses will suffer badly.
 
Brains said:
who are very vocal and hate tourists and especially campers and cyclists.
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So would I if they are regularly getting "leaving the scene of an accident" with animals.

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gus-lopez said:
So would I if they are regularly getting "leaving the scene of an accident" with animals.
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Only the cyclists who behave like total knobs are despised, and the idiot campers who set fires or leave their rubbish everywhere. Yes, we locals all get a bit fed up when we get caught behind visitor vehicles moving at snails pace and randomly stopping each time they see a pony, but we are generally well disposed to well behaved visitors who love our environment as much as we do.
 
Kannon Fodda said:
Common courtesy is fine, when it happens. Not always the case though. Remember too that CITF is not just for motorhomers, there will be caravans, campervans (without any facilities) and many in tents. They can't discriminate and only allow one type of user, they probably have enough issues on the non facility sites that punters must have their own toilet.

But yes, if the world is to move forward, and extricate itself from Covid we must accept that locking down all to protect a few is potentially more damaging to the whole than allowing those who are vulnerable to take their precautions. We simply cannot wrap up everyone in cotton wool, and those that are able to get out should be able to do so.
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The point is that we could adopt a more New Zealand like model where there are places for those who are self-contained. Particularly appropriate given the ongoing change in circumstances.
 
Brains said:
I suspect there is more to this than meets the eye.

Obviously having fired all the staff, they are going to find it very very hard to employ new staff as everyone knows everyone in a small rural community like that, and I'd guess the word has gone out to say "don't even think about it ...."

But I suspect the other big issue will be the local NF Defence Force, who are very vocal and hate tourists and especially campers and cyclists.
As far as they are concerned this situation will be a big win.
They will be doing their best to ensure they never re-open
Click to expand...

It looks to me that you ve over-egged this one. Hardly pitchforks at dawn is it!
 
jongood said:
They could always put pay and display machines in and turn them into aires, converting the toilets into dump stations. The only staffing needed would be a person in a van going round checking tickets.

I'm on a barrier controlled aire atm, pull up to barrier go to machine insert reg number and length of stay whether you want water or not, and it gives you a receipt with a number. initial investment would pay for itself very quickly.
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Can you imagine what would happen here. First a committee would be needed made up of people who know nothing about camping or Aires, at least one member would be an importer of barrier equipment that doesn't work, of course it would take several years of expensive meetings to come to the wrong conclusions.
 
The forestry commission has for years been trying to reduce camping in the New Forest, years ago the reduced Roundhill from 700 to 500 pitches, even at 700 there was plenty of room. They claim it puts too much pressure on the forest. I don't see that, as most campers tend to walk or cycle once pitched up, when you look at the number of day visitors coming in by car at peak times the campers are a small minority.

I have only ever found the locals friendly & helpful & the business's could certainly do with the trade.

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jongood said:
It looks to me that you ve over-egged this one. Hardly pitchforks at dawn is it!
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Revolting Peasants have moved on from flaming torches and Pitchforks, they now get members on the local committees and councils.

As far as I'm aware the Forest campsites are still closed until at least Spring 2021
The NF Defence Force would call that a result to be hopefully continued.
 
cornish boy said:
As for the NF Defence Force, in 35 years of visiting and using the New Forest, I can hand on heart say that every local I have met and/or spoken with has been friendly and welcoming
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Same here.

We noticed a big change in visitor numbers when it was made into a national park and the forest seemed to be promoted in every holiday / nature programme and magazine going for a couple of years. Hardly surprising that visitor numbers increased the way they did. A bit like the NC500 I suppose.
 
Brains said:
Revolting Peasants have moved on from flaming torches and Pitchforks, they now get members on the local committees and councils.

As far as I'm aware the Forest campsites are still closed until at least Spring 2021
The NF Defence Force would call that a result to be hopefully continued.
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When I read the article you linked to it seemed they were more bothered about their animals being injured on the roads. I'm not understanding how you're linking that to motorhomes.
 
Actually the New Forest Commoners Defence Association has been expressing a lot of concern about the effects of closure of campsites, and even the forest car parks (the latter having been re-opened).

If you look at their website and particularly their facebook page you can see they have been encouraging commoners to create temporary campsites on grazing land to reduce the pressure.

The were extremely vocal on the effect of the car parks being closed, and lack of rangers that were furloughed that meant too many people were parking on verges and damaging the habitat.

They have become very critical that Forestry England (formerly the Forestry Commision) seem to be more concerned about raising income, yet their primary government ministry mandated objective should have been conservation [of the Forest landscape].

Their objection is that many of the campsites are on open land and SSSI locations so interfere with habitats and grazing. They would prefer that they could be relocated to enclosed land. I can't see reference that they want camping banned.
 
Brains said:
Revolting Peasants have moved on from flaming torches and Pitchforks, they now get members on the local committees and councils.
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Just so I am clear, are you saying that locals becoming members of local committees and councils to champion local opinion is wrong?

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