New Ferry From Poole, Dorset To Tangiers, Morocco? (1 Viewer)

[Driventemple]

What's your evidence for that interesting claim?

The 1972 Film "The Poseidon Adventure"

 

[Peppadog]

Whatever the adventure film evidence is, from the perspective of being on a large ship, its wrong.

Unlike the Channel or the Med', crossing the Bay of Biscay takes you over the continental shelf into much deeper water. Also its at the eastern end of a couple of thousand miles of the Atlantic ocean. The effect of bad weather in the Atlantic results in long, deep swells heading into the bay. These can easily be 10-20 metres high, sometimes more, when the wind / fronts have been building for days further west. Rolling in a big ship as it crosses the swells can be extremely uncomfortable.

The Channel and Med is more or less the opposite. Bad weather brings short, steep seas that affect smaller craft much more than big ships, which are only in danger if they lose 'way' (engines fail or rudder fails). They are then at the mercy of the weather taking them towards land.

 

[Jonno1103]

What's your evidence for that interesting claim?

It's not a claim, anyone who sails regularly knows it. The Med has more storms than any other body of water and they occur all year round, followed by the Denmark Strait then probably Drakes Passage. The Baltic true can be very stormy in winter but as it ices over storms tend to blow across. The Gulf of Bothnia is probably already beginning to ice north of Vaasa up by Oulu. I also wouldn't be surprised if the eastern end of the Gulf of Finland up by Vyborg hasn't seen some sea ice already.

Bay storms are usually in late autumn and winter. The U boats used to have a field day during early spring through to late autumn as it was calm enough for them to travel on the surface before diving and firing torpedoes... which again can't really be done at 10 metres if there's a bit of blow above your head.

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[Peppadog]

All irrelevant in a big ship going to North Africa though

 

[Jonno1103]

Whatever the adventure film evidence is, from the perspective of being on a large ship, its wrong.

Unlike the Channel or the Med', crossing the Bay of Biscay takes you over the continental shelf into much deeper water. Also its at the eastern end of a couple of thousand miles of the Atlantic ocean. The effect of bad weather in the Atlantic results in long, deep swells heading into the bay. These can easily be 10-20 metres high, sometimes more, when the wind / fronts have been building for days further west. Rolling in a big ship as it crosses the swells can be extremely uncomfortable.

The Channel and Med is more or less the opposite. Bad weather brings short, steep seas that affect smaller craft much more than big ships, which are only in danger if they lose 'way' (engines fail or rudder fails). They are then at the mercy of the weather taking them towards land.

You won't find any passenger ferry any of us would be sailing on in 10-20 metre deep swells, they wont sail in anything over 5 metres or forecast to be over 5 metres. The one that did for PA's bridge superstructure windows was 9 metres and was classed as freak as those before and after were measured at 3 metres. The ferries will also tend to keep east of the shelf too for the majority of the trip and due the captains all having a PEC they also sail inside of Ushant.

 

[Jonno1103]

All irrelevant in a big ship going to North Africa though

Yep but it's unaccompanied freight and no one hears blueberries vomiting!

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[Peppadog]

If they ever introduce a passenger service it would be a good choice especially if they have a stop in Portugal in route I travelled on the Eagle from Southampton a couple of times in the 70s to Tangier nice relaxing route as long as the bay behaves itself.

Yes. But your post was in response to this from coroner. You quoted it!!

 

[acropolis22]

It's not a claim, anyone who sails regularly knows it. The Med has more storms than any other body of water and they occur all year round, followed by the Denmark Strait then probably Drakes Passage. The Baltic true can be very stormy in winter but as it ices over storms tend to blow across. The Gulf of Bothnia is probably already beginning to ice north of Vaasa up by Oulu. I also wouldn't be surprised if the eastern end of the Gulf of Finland up by Vyborg hasn't seen some sea ice already.

Bay storms are usually in late autumn and winter. The U boats used to have a field day during early spring through to late autumn as it was calm enough for them to travel on the surface before diving and firing torpedoes... which again can't really be done at 10 metres if there's a bit of blow above your head.

So, no actual evidence, just your opinion.

 

[Yorick]

So, no actual evidence, just your opinion.

Opinions are fine. This isn't a court of law

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[Peppadog]

<Broken link removed>You won't find any passenger ferry any of us would be sailing on in 10-20 metre deep swells, they wont sail in anything over 5 metres or forecast to be over 5 metres. The one that did for PA's bridge superstructure windows was 9 metres and was classed as freak as those before and after were measured at 3 metres. The ferries will also tend to keep east of the shelf too for the majority of the trip and due the captains all having a PEC they also sail inside of Ushant.

Iv'e been on ferries in the deep water in 10m swells. Thats only 33'. Nothing for a big ship.

Also, even a ferry from Bilbao or Santander on the north coats of Spain is over the shelf into water 3000m deep or more within a short time. A ship to north Africa or Portugal even more so. So your claim they stay east in a big sea is impossible.

See attached section of a chart from my Navionics chart plotter. It shows minimum depths. Everything west of the depth line is as deep or deeper. <Broken link removed>It proves what I am telling you.

 

[acropolis22]

Opinions are fine. This isn't a court of law

True. And my opinion is that the Med is far from the worst sea around. Having lived on it for 20 odd years.

 

[Spriddler]

The one that did for PA's bridge superstructure windows was 9 metres and was classed as freak as those before and after were measured at 3 metres.

You're quite right, they do call them 'Freak' waves but from 40 years encompassing beach launching a racing dinghy to singlehanded offshore sailing (Azores, Canaries etc. ) I'm very conscious that there will always be one or two waves coming through that are substantially larger than the preceding ones. A 10m wave is actually 5m above the mean sea level since wave height is measured from peak to trough and the trough will be 5m lower than the mean sea level and the peak 5 m higher.
Just off the NE corner of Alderney is The Swinge, a race with vicious overfalls. At certain stages of the tide a double-troughed 3 to 5m standing wave forms. As one breasts the 'first' wave one expects to see the next wave crest as you run down into the trough but instead of there being another wave coming there's another trough. Now that would be a heart-stopper!

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[Peppadog]

The Swinge is off the NW corner of Alderney. I‘m sure you knew that. I know it well as Alderney is often my first destination from Poole. Then off down the Swinge to Guernsey or Jersey a day or two later.

 

[Jonno1103]

So, no actual evidence, just your opinion.

You're quite right, they do call them 'Freak' waves but from 40 years encompassing beach launching a racing dinghy to singlehanded offshore sailing (Azores, Canaries etc. ) I'm very conscious that there will always be one or two waves coming through that are substantially larger than the preceding ones. A 10m wave is actually 5m above the mean sea level since wave height is measured from peak to trough and the trough will be 5m lower than the mean sea level and the peak 5 m higher.
Just off the NE corner of Alderney is The Swinge, a race with vicious overfalls. At certain stages of the tide a double-troughed 3 to 5m standing wave forms. As one breasts the 'first' wave one expects to see the next wave crest as you run down into the trough but instead of there being another wave coming there's another trough. Now that would be a heart-stopper!

Quite true Spriddler but the NE corner of Alderney isn't the Bay of Biscay, It's in the English Channel.

Even BF captains will tell you that the Bay is fine the majority of the time and over the course of the year the company will have more sailings cancelled due to weather from Plymouth & Poole than they will from Zierbena or Santander. They'll even tell you that Galicia plus northern & central Portugal offer a good deal of shelter from the south and both Finistere & Brittany to the north.

The Celtic Sea and St Georges Channel are hammered far worse.

 

[Spriddler]

The Swinge is off the NW corner of Alderney. I‘m sure you knew that. I know it well as Alderney is often my first destination from Poole. Then off down the Swinge to Guernsey or Jersey a day or two later.

Quite so, I had a freak brainwave

........ Alderney isn't the Bay of Biscay, It's in the English Channel.

Even BF captains will tell you that the Bay is fine the majority of the time

That's true. I've crossed it a few times, initially in my twenty three and later in my twenty seven footer and never had a rough one although it has always been in 'summer' months not the Oct to March gale-prone period. The strings of lobster and crab pots have posed the greatest threat.
(I've also unwillingly pirouetted without steerage down much of the Alderney Race at around 6 knots in a flat calm ).

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[Peppadog]

I think the point has been missed. We were discussing the possibility of a future ferry direct to Morroco. Someone suggested it could be rough across Biscay. And a ferry or similar rolling over long, large swells can be very uncomfortable and make you nauseous.
All of us who have, or still sail, know that Biscay is pretty comfortable most of the time. The depth change from thousands of metres to a hundred or three, changes the sea state altogether. But big ships don’t generally feel so uncomfortable in the short breaking seas. Which is all the other areas being mentioned here. Because they are so big.

Simples init.

I hope there is a viable ferry route direct to Morocco in time. If there is. I’ll be on it.

 

[Jonno1103]

I hope there is a viable ferry route direct to Morocco in time. If there is. I’ll be on it.

...and I'll carry your bags!

 

[Lordmac]

Think it would end up more of a endurance test , a don't like the Midge's, but fear the mosquito more in those places

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