New Clutch at 32,000 miles. (1 Viewer)

Jan 8, 2013
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Dronfield - Derbyshire
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Burstner Lyseo 690G
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During the first week of our last months 3K trip France and Germany I felt the clutch slip climbing some of the hills. It became easier to make it slip during the follow weeks. I enquired about a repair at a Fiat Dealer in Saarburg who quoted 11 hours labour and a total of €1700. My local Fiat dealer quoted £850 so it became imperative to nurse it home. Driving Miss Daisy and avoiding hills as much as possible, I didn't have another problem for the 800 miles home, it does seem these clutches give you a good warning period to get it fixed.
My biggest problem has been identifying the correct replacement. The 2012 Reg number wasn't enough, the VIN number wasn't enough, the engine number wasn't enough and had to finally find the Motor Type and Version Number. I even contacted Fiat and because this is a MoHo they have no record of the last two.
Fortunately all the info is on a plate I had never noticed before on the front scuttle.

A LUK friction and pressure plate has cost me £220 trade, I still can't identify the thrust bearing but it should easily be available. If it needs the Dual Mass flywheel it will be a further £400+ item but I'm told that after only 32K it should be OK, although I still know if it even has one.

I was wondering whether to have them blank off the EGR valve while it in the garage - wot u think?

Its booked in for next week at a local garage and the labour should be less than £300.

Its been an expensive year. I've just paid £400 to replace the timing belt and water pump and now it aso need 4 new tyres.
 

Derbyshire wanderer

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Mar 30, 2014
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Does it have an EGR valve? My 2012 has DPF and as far as I am aware both systems are not used together.
It does seem that the Euro 6 engine does use a EGR after the DPF to avoid using adblue though
 
Last edited:

Neckender

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Oct 15, 2007
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My last van a 2014 Peugeot based Auto Sleeper had both PDF and egr fitted.

John

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MC 55 FUN

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Feb 18, 2016
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Does it have an EGR valve? My 2012 has DPF and as far as I am aware both systems are not used together.
It does seem that the Euro 6 engine does use a EGR after the DPF to avoid using adblue though

The E.G.R.V. is often bolted to the inlet manifold area of the engine & has an exhaust feed in, the D.P.F. is part of the exhaust system & it's common for most modern diesels to utilise both.
 
2

2657

Deleted User
If my memory is correct around Autumn 2012 was when the euro 5 engines were introduced, so date of manufacture rather than registration would be more important.

My Globecar with the 120 engine is on a 62 plate but was manufactured sometime in 2011 and is euro 4, don't know what that means in terms of EGR valve or DPF though.
 
OP
OP
Stealaway
Jan 8, 2013
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Neither was I but it seems to between 30/40k is an average, as it's not a great clutch and as it's fully loaded all the time.
Hopefully the LUK clutch will be better and I'll never need to change it again.
 

Lenny HB

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I think the dual mass flywheel is only on the 3Lt and the 130&150ph 2.3 with Comformatic box. Manual box 130 & 150hp have a standard flywheel.

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OP
OP
Stealaway
Jan 8, 2013
8,478
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Dronfield - Derbyshire
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have you checked the Fiat ePER .. it will have all the information about your van.. use the VIN number

http://eper.fiatforum.com/eper/navi...INDOW_ID=1&KEY=HOME&EPER_CAT=SP&MAKE=F&SBMK=F

Nope sorry --- does not recognise my Vin number.
I wasn't surprised, if Fiat themselves have no record.
It seems to be a common problem with MoHo's plus Fiat commercial are constantly upgrading their vehicles.

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OP
OP
Stealaway
Jan 8, 2013
8,478
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Dronfield - Derbyshire
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Just had the new clutch fitted. The friction plate does look pretty worn but I would expect it would last another 5K miles - driven carefully.
The pressure plate looks OK but how would you know. Mine is not fitted with the dual mass flywheel, so no issues there. They also changed the slave cylinder for an extra £30.
Total cost came to £500 so I'm very happy - compared to Fiat Germany's €1700 quote. (but there was a lot of cash involved)
The mechanic had changed another motor home clutch recently but said that that one had had a chip tune and was more of a problem.



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Louis

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Mar 29, 2016
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Just had the new clutch fitted. The friction plate does look pretty worn but I would expect it would last another 5K miles - driven carefully.
The pressure plate looks OK but how would you know. Mine is not fitted with the dual mass flywheel, so no issues there. They also changed the slave cylinder for an extra £30.
Total cost came to £500 so I'm very happy - compared to Fiat Germany's €1700 quote. (but there was a lot of cash involved)
The mechanic had changed another motor home clutch recently but said that that one had had a chip tune and was more of a problem.



View attachment 163826 View attachment 163827
Can you post photo of the flywheel side of the centre plate please , to compare both sides ?(y)

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OP
OP
Stealaway
Jan 8, 2013
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Can you post photo of the flywheel side of the centre plate please , to compare both sides ?(y)

Both sides of the friction have worn equally . The rivet 'peans' are more sunken than the heads and have less than a mm to go before they will mark the flywheel and the pressure plate. The wear is not as bad as I had expected but still knacked.
I'll photograph the other side tomorrow.
 

Louis

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Mar 29, 2016
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6 Months with motorhome(35 years tugging)
Both sides of the friction have worn equally . The rivet 'peans' are more sunken than the heads and have less than a mm to go before they will mark the flywheel and the pressure plate. The wear is not as bad as I had expected but still knacked.
I'll photograph the other side tomorrow.
Thanks, one side usually wears slightly more than the other, just in the nick of time (y)

Also paid a decent price, nice one!(y)
 
Last edited:
Aug 6, 2013
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Both sides of the friction have worn equally . The rivet 'peans' are more sunken than the heads and have less than a mm to go before they will mark the flywheel and the pressure plate. The wear is not as bad as I had expected but still knacked.
I'll photograph the other side tomorrow.
Most pressure plates 'run out of travel' and cause slip before the friction plate rivets do any damage. Seems to be a very welcome modern design feature.

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ambulancekidd

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Since 1964 Gosh that makes me feel old.
Most pressure plates 'run out of travel' and cause slip before the friction plate rivets do any damage. Seems to be a very welcome modern design feature.

It has always been the practice of clutch manufacturers to run clutches with more meat on the flywheel side, its not so many years ago that flywheels were expected to last the life of the vehicle! Then came the infamous & frankly pointless weak dual mass flywheels.
 
OP
OP
Stealaway
Jan 8, 2013
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Dronfield - Derbyshire
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Can you post photo of the flywheel side of the centre plate please , to compare both sides ?(y)

This threat has been very informative even for me.
I was recommended an LUK clutch as being the best clutch for Ducato's but the mechanic said it was a Valeo friction plate in the LUK box and now fitted, same as the one that came off. I despair.

It has always been the practice of clutch manufacturers to run clutches with more meat on the flywheel side, its not so many years ago that flywheels were expected to last the life of the vehicle! Then came the infamous & frankly pointless weak dual mass flywheels.

There seems to be the same amount of wear on both sides. I might have been better if all the rivets were mounted from one side rather than mix them around the plate - laziness?

DSC01987.JPG
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DSC01987.JPG
DSC01989.JPG
 

ambulancekidd

Funster
Sep 23, 2014
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Since 1964 Gosh that makes me feel old.
I might have been better if all the rivets were mounted from one side rather than mix them around the plate - laziness?

Yes that does look a bit strange. I wonder what the thinking was there by the manufacturer? Or the lack of thinking.

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OP
OP
Stealaway
Jan 8, 2013
8,478
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Dronfield - Derbyshire
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Burstner Lyseo 690G
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Nope sorry --- does not recognise my Vin number.
I wasn't surprised, if Fiat themselves have no record.
It seems to be a common problem with MoHo's plus Fiat commercial are constantly upgrading their vehicles.



These are the numbers you must quote to have any chance of receiving the correct parts

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DSC01995.JPG
 
Dec 12, 2010
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Yes that does look a bit strange. I wonder what the thinking was there by the manufacturer? Or the lack of thinking.

The friction plates are riveted on one side at a time. In the picture, the peened over portion of the rivet fits in a clearance hole in the opposite side's friction material. So if there are 20 rivets in total, that will be ten rivets for each plate, peening the rivet against the friction material would cause it to crumble away, whereas the rivet head has a nice 'top hat' portion that snugs up to the friction material's counterbored hole.
 
D

DL42846

Deleted User
During the first week of our last months 3K trip France and Germany I felt the clutch slip climbing some of the hills. It became easier to make it slip during the follow weeks. I enquired about a repair at a Fiat Dealer in Saarburg who quoted 11 hours labour and a total of €1700. My local Fiat dealer quoted £850 so it became imperative to nurse it home. Driving Miss Daisy and avoiding hills as much as possible, I didn't have another problem for the 800 miles home, it does seem these clutches give you a good warning period to get it fixed.
My biggest problem has been identifying the correct replacement. The 2012 Reg number wasn't enough, the VIN number wasn't enough, the engine number wasn't enough and had to finally find the Motor Type and Version Number. I even contacted Fiat and because this is a MoHo they have no record of the last two.
Fortunately all the info is on a plate I had never noticed before on the front scuttle.

A LUK friction and pressure plate has cost me £220 trade, I still can't identify the thrust bearing but it should easily be available. If it needs the Dual Mass flywheel it will be a further £400+ item but I'm told that after only 32K it should be OK, although I still know if it even has one.

I was wondering whether to have them blank off the EGR valve while it in the garage - wot u think?

Its booked in for next week at a local garage and the labour should be less than £300.

Its been an expensive year. I've just paid £400 to replace the timing belt and water pump and now it aso need 4 new tyres.


I have a 2009 Fiat Ducato 130 multyjet. At 24,000 the snycro has gone between 1st and 2nd and from 3rd to 2nd. I have taken it into Fiat today 2300€ to fix. I had also contacted Fiat.fr and complained. We are now negotiating a contribution from Fiat. They will call me tomorrow.

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Silver-Fox

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Looks like an odd wear marker from the thrust bearing as well.

Unless its the camera angle.
 
Aug 18, 2014
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I have a 2009 Fiat Ducato 130 multyjet. At 24,000 the snycro has gone between 1st and 2nd and from 3rd to 2nd. I have taken it into Fiat today 2300€ to fix. I had also contacted Fiat.fr and complained. We are now negotiating a contribution from Fiat. They will call me tomorrow.
hope it goes well.
 

Silver-Fox

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I did notice that but I have no idea if it is relevant or why it's odd

My guess is the two mating faces arnt square to each other.

Why i have no idea, maybe pressure plate not even or gearbox slightly out of square maybe to thrust bearing out a bit?

Might be worth getting the clutch parts on an inspection table with a dial gauge?
 
OP
OP
Stealaway
Jan 8, 2013
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Dronfield - Derbyshire
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Burstner Lyseo 690G
Exp
Happy FLT since 2011
My guess is the two mating faces arnt square to each other.

You've got to blame Fiat - originally fitted in the factory. Not sure it would have made any difference to the clutch life.
It may be simply the angle that the thrust bearing / slave cylinder met the pressure plate
 

Silver-Fox

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You've got to blame Fiat - originally fitted in the factory. Not sure it would have made any difference to the clutch life.
It may be simply the angle that the thrust bearing / slave cylinder met the pressure plate

Absolutely down to Fiat as its original.
Yep don't think it would have changed wear rate, does seem excessive though.
Yes may well be as simple as the shape of the thrust bearing, but me being me I would want to eliminate possibilities. I think if it were an issue you would have other problems with the clutch, Im just inqusitive :)

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