New chinese Diesel heater now coming with water heater... (2 Viewers)

[DIY campervan]

should have said if its used with a plate or calorifier or for underfloor i will not be a problem as the water isnt changed and becomes inert

Your good, i could use your help in the near future. The whole point of posting on here for me.

 

[jockaneezer]

I bet lots of big companies are looking at viable options to get away from Chineses manufacturing now, unfortunately it will still be down to cost so they will be in Third World areas with their associated "foibles"
Quality control seems to be a big problem with Chinese goods, it seems that they never have any "reject" parts, only different "grades" ? If an item "looks" close enough to the finished goods, that's good enough, even if it's been made from the wrong grade of material or is a mile out tolerance on size.
I will alway buy good quality second hand rather than new Chinese whenever I can. Check this short video out for instance ?

 

[DIY campervan]

I bet lots of big companies are looking at viable options to get away from Chineses manufacturing now, unfortunately it will still be down to cost so they will be in Third World areas with their associated "foibles"
Quality control seems to be a big problem with Chinese goods, it seems that they never have any "reject" parts, only different "grades" ? If an item "looks" close enough to the finished goods, that's good enough, even if it's been made from the wrong grade of material or is a mile out tolerance on size.
I will alway buy good quality second hand rather than new Chinese whenever I can. Check this short video out for instance ?

Yer i agree with you all the way as originally when i was looking for just an air diesel heater i thought best buy webasto or the other good brands because i wanted to have a timer to set the heat on before i come back from say the pub. I wont trust cheap chinese unbranded products To be operational when I'm not present for fear of fire. They use inferior materials, wrong resisters, wrong electrical insulation and sizing. On counterfeit products the plastic covers can fuel a fire not extinguish it so i hear you 100%. However some product are good but may need a little fettling to fit lol. As you will see on my next video where i show you the problems, try to fix them and mock up the system for a bench test then ill upload on youtube for all to see. The reason i bought this air and water diesel heater is because if i can get it to work in a camper van it could well be a game changer for people on a budget. People with plenty of spare dosh i would totally recommend to not mess about and get the real deal for reliability, peace of mind, parts and a manufacturers guarantee. My next video is a must see for all but i suggest you subscribe so you dont miss it. Im only an amateur but I've s strong feeling this subject will be very interesting.

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[Coolcats]

I bet lots of big companies are looking at viable options to get away from Chineses manufacturing now, unfortunately it will still be down to cost so they will be in Third World areas with their associated "foibles"
Quality control seems to be a big problem with Chinese goods, it seems that they never have any "reject" parts, only different "grades" ? If an item "looks" close enough to the finished goods, that's good enough, even if it's been made from the wrong grade of material or is a mile out tolerance on size.
I will alway buy good quality second hand rather than new Chinese whenever I can. Check this short video out for instance ?

I am not defending China or how goods are made but we live in a globalised world, if a manufacturer moves from China it probably will not be back to the UK but maybe somewhere like Korea, India is favourite for clothing manufacturer.

Manufacturing costs are a big consideration, why would you pay UK wages (even the minimum wage) when you can pay someone a 10th of that wage let alone local tax's etc. I am not saying its right just how things work.

Regarding quality, some items made in China are poor and some items are of good quality but that is the same across the world.

Then you have to consider who runs these multinational organisations and what their aims are, what they care about or rather what they do not.

Here, one Captain of British industry Sir Phillip Green, apparently said 'has no intention' to watch Greed film.

Having said this there are good companies and ones with integrity, the real winners are when every one gets a good deal, the company their suppliers and the customer. this normally comes at a price.

Sometimes we need to accept as consumers that we cannot have everything as we just cannot afford it, but that's just a personal view. I would rather have less and a world where everyone can have a good basic living and no one is exploited, which I guess Jockaneezer is what you are saying as well.

 

[br1ght]

To those who think that the Chinese diesel heaters are blatant ripoffs of the W brand, have you considered that W might not have a patent? Just because it ‘may’ be a look alike of the W brand, doesn’t mean anything... you likely own an electric kettle and don’t question the fact that it looks and is made and operates just like Brand X, Y, Z or W—who ripped off who? Well of course in the case of an electric kettle the patent expired likely around 1970 when the submerged element, the only ‘techi’ part of a kettle, aged out... did you stop to think what unique tech goes into W’s heaters? Likely nothing that wouldn’t have aged out long ago... all the W and Chinese diesel parking heaters are is a glow plug, metered pump, fan and a brain board to ensure diesel has ignited and continues to remain lit. The same essential tech that Stewart-Warner kept planes and the US military (and likely others) warm with in their conveys thru until the late 40s... so it is unlikely W has any patent for their diesel fired parking heaters as the patent ran out long ago...

Now if you want to argue quality or Covid that’s up for grabs, but as far as arguing they are knock-off / patent infringement, until I see an enforceable patent I’ll iostick to Chinese unless the W brand brings down their prices to a respectable amount while manufacturing their parts and assembling their products in DE...

 

[BuilderBob]

It’s Chinese so it’s probably sub standard.

I seem to remember we used to say the same about 'Japanese Rubbish' wonder how that ended

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[Podney]

I seem to remember we used to say the same about 'Japanese Rubbish' wonder how that ended

Well before my time.

 

[DIY campervan]

To those who think that the Chinese diesel heaters are blatant ripoffs of the W brand, have you considered that W might not have a patent? Just because it ‘may’ be a look alike of the W brand, doesn’t mean anything... you likely own an electric kettle and don’t question the fact that it looks and is made and operates just like Brand X, Y, Z or W—who ripped off who? Well of course in the case of an electric kettle the patent expired likely around 1970 when the submerged element, the only ‘techi’ part of a kettle, aged out... did you stop to think what unique tech goes into W’s heaters? Likely nothing that wouldn’t have aged out long ago... all the W and Chinese diesel parking heaters are is a glow plug, metered pump, fan and a brain board to ensure diesel has ignited and continues to remain lit. The same essential tech that Stewart-Warner kept planes and the US military (and likely others) warm with in their conveys thru until the late 40s... so it is unlikely W has any patent for their diesel fired parking heaters as the patent ran out long ago...

Now if you want to argue quality or Covid that’s up for grabs, but as far as arguing they are knock-off / patent infringement, until I see an enforceable patent I’ll iostick to Chinese unless the W brand brings down their prices to a respectable amount while manufacturing their parts and assembling their products in DE...

Thats right, there is no patent but this particular machine is low quality and I've hit many problems of which I'm still ironing out. Just an air product you cant fault um but air and water isnt great. For instance if you want just air you have to turn off the circulation pump of which then the coolant starts to boil in the heat exchanger as this machine is meant to tap into a trucks coolant system not boil water direct into a camper van hot water tank. Ive replicated that coolant system by plumbing it up to a matrix heat exchanger (plate) and dropping that in the tank. When it boils it blows back the liquid and blows the pipes off so im re-engineering a new idea that will vent off gas produced by boiling soon as it blows back and using an expansion tank to absorb forced back coolant. Im doing a 2nd video on youtube to show people. This is not the mcluvky guy video im the guy who bought his machine off him. Mclucky never actually tried to fit the machine into a practical situation fir use in a camper, thus exposing its problems. Of course you can just pull water out your tank, through the machine and back into the tank but the inlet/outlet pipes will rust and the heat exchanger can scale up rapidly reducing efficiency of flow. The exchanger is made of aluminium so de scaling it will pose a challenge as regular chemicals cant be used. Only much gentler types and how do you know if its worked as u cant see how bad its clogged in the first place. Therefore running coolant through is the only best option and tranfer heat again from a plate heat exchanger in the tank. Just the blow back problem to solve of which i’m on it and think sorted it.

 

[Coolcats]

Thats right, there is no patent but this particular machine is low quality and I've hit many problems of which I'm still ironing out. Just an air product you cant fault um but air and water isnt great. For instance if you want just air you have to turn off the circulation pump of which then the coolant starts to boil in the heat exchanger as this machine is meant to tap into a trucks coolant system not boil water direct into a camper van hot water tank. Ive replicated that coolant system by plumbing it up to a matrix heat exchanger (plate) and dropping that in the tank. When it boils it blows back the liquid and blows the pipes off so im re-engineering a new idea that will vent off gas produced by boiling soon as it blows back and using an expansion tank to absorb forced back coolant. Im doing a 2nd video on youtube to show people. This is not the mcluvky guy video im the guy who bought his machine off him. Mclucky never actually tried to fit the machine into a practical situation fir use in a camper, thus exposing its problems. Of course you can just pull water out your tank, through the machine and back into the tank but the inlet/outlet pipes will rust and the heat exchanger can scale up rapidly reducing efficiency of flow. The exchanger is made of aluminium so de scaling it will pose a challenge as regular chemicals cant be used. Only much gentler types and how do you know if its worked as u cant see how bad its clogged in the first place. Therefore running coolant through is the only best option and tranfer heat again from a plate heat exchanger in the tank. Just the blow back problem to solve of which i’m on it and think sorted it.

This is not meant to be critical and just a couple of observations.

The first point is and as highlighted this product is cheap and if your happy that someone somewhere pays for someone to have a cheap diesel heater then consider their working conditions and how much that are not paid.

The product as you described is not fit for purpose and for the average consumer would be a backward step. There is a cost to re engineer something so now it is not so cheap.

personally I would be happy to pay extra for a product I use and don’t have to think about as my guess is many others are. Then there is the warranty and support you get with companies such as Truma or Webasto (which is also a cost for a company to provide let alone any warranty claims)

I hope your re engineering project goes well but many just don’t want the fuss

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[Raul]

Here is another idea, if you are after a combined water heater and include electric, get a second used under sink boiler and change the element to something like 750-800w for the 230v and glow plugs for 12v. I got friends that uses a plastic barrel with 12v glow plugs for damping excess solar harvest off grid. For the exhaust, you could use a small scooter 4T small can, they are far better than the once supplied even by the big names heaters. Look forward to see the van build.

 

[br1ght]

DIY Cv & Coolcats, you have some valid points...

...the point about needing hot air and not water/coolant not so much as I’m not sure why one would ever not be able to dump the waste coolant by properly routing the lines... having a warm engine is never a bad thing...

I guess the waste coolant issue only becomes a problem if one is using it to heat water and an adequate sized storage tank and expansion tank are not used or if the heater is used for days at a time on higher settings without using water elevating the water temp to near boiling point...

 

[DIY campervan]

This is not meant to be critical and just a couple of observations.

The first point is and as highlighted this product is cheap and if your happy that someone somewhere pays for someone to have a cheap diesel heater then consider their working conditions and how much that are not paid.

The product as you described is not fit for purpose and for the average consumer would be a backward step. There is a cost to re engineer something so now it is not so cheap.

personally I would be happy to pay extra for a product I use and don’t have to think about as my guess is many others are. Then there is the warranty and support you get with companies such as Truma or Webasto (which is also a cost for a company to provide let alone any warranty claims)

I hope your re engineering project goes well but many just don’t want the fuss

Oh yer absolutely i totally agree. Professionally built motorhomes have to have the proper gear for sure. Ive bought it because its cheap. It only ever should be a diy setup for the bugeteers. I would recommend a truma if you have the money. Its just a solution for anyone who doesnt have the funds. My quest is to make the darn thing work and serve me well. When i say re-engineer i only mean design a coolant plumbing system that wont blow the pipes off. Its not a major expense and once ive cracked it people can copy it off the video. I mocked it up today and it worked well so im gunna give it a hard test and run for hours and if ok then instal it properly. Like you say people wont want the fuss but if your building your own camper on the cheap you wont have one without a lot of fuss n agro. As ive found out lol. Many thanks fir best wishes karl.

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[mitzimad]

Is it me, but why buy these style if heaters anyway, as they only heat air and water, how about a Wallas diesel heater that heats air and has hot plates for food

these are cheap not something you could accuse the wallis of

 

[mitzimad]

I fitted a Chinese air diesel heater into my 30 ft 3 slideout fifth wheel in January and it works admirably. It was before my life was turned upside down by the country that manufactured it. I now refuse to buy anything made in China, but thats just my choice and my personal stand against what they have inflicted on the world, whether by accident or not. Yes, I do realise that most electronic devices are made in China, but am willing to make sacrifices for what I believe is right.

whether your typing on a phone computer or tablet i will bet you 100 to 1 there are chineses components in it

 

[mitzimad]

A friend of mine is a senior manager with Eberspacher UK. He tells me,not surprisingly, that these blatant copies are made DOWN to a price,and when they break down -very short MTBF- people come to him for spares! He is happy to refuse...

thats a mandy rice davies moment

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[Gromett]

To be honest, if I was looking into this I would have a separate diesel air heater. I would only be turning on the water heater to get hot water. I know it would be nice to have a combi, but I can't see how it could be done without major cost implications.
Also if I was installing this I would have the water pipes running through a calorifier and using a closed loop with a biocide agent in it to prevent clogging.

I am sure you have thought of most of this but it is not totally clear sorry.

 

[mitzimad]

Oh yer absolutely i totally agree. Professionally built motorhomes have to have the proper gear for sure. Ive bought it because its cheap. It only ever should be a diy setup for the bugeteers. I would recommend a truma if you have the money. Its just a solution for anyone who doesnt have the funds. My quest is to make the darn thing work and serve me well. When i say re-engineer i only mean design a coolant plumbing system that wont blow the pipes off. Its not a major expense and once ive cracked it people can copy it off the video. I mocked it up today and it worked well so im gunna give it a hard test and run for hours and if ok then instal it properly. Like you say people wont want the fuss but if your building your own camper on the cheap you wont have one without a lot of fuss n agro. As ive found out lol. Many thanks fir best wishes karl.

as someone has mentioned its getting rid of the heat build up when using it for heating thats the problem you would need to make a system where the water content of the heater dropped back when not wanted so you would need a resevoir below the heater and a pump it would have to be a primary loop and either an exspansion vessel or open vented
the technology is no different to any oil fired central heating boiler pump. burner, glowplug and some sensors

 

[mitzimad]

thinking about it more the problem with what ive added above is thermal shock the heater would be hot and when the pump started it would hit the hot heater you would need to controll the amount of water hitting the heater so a second metered pump and possible a spray bar
easier just to buy a truma water heater and use the Chinese air heater

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[busby]

I seem to remember we used to say the same about 'Japanese Rubbish' wonder how that ended

Think JAP CRAP was the term,,how wrong we were..BUSBY.

 

[Coolcats]

Think JAP CRAP was the term,,how wrong we were..BUSBY.

At the time some of it was, however the good stuff techniques and process was good and got better in the mean time British industry thought British was best and carried in producing the same old stuff. Some of the Chinese equipment is pretty solid stuff me just like Japan at the time some not so good.

A lot of Japanese and Korean produced goods are good quality and have an associated price as do some goods produced in China.

So where does that leave us? I think it’s the bit that is cheap is cheap and poorly engineered goods are also cheap and it really doesn’t matter which country it comes from.

The British bike and motor industry had a time where goods were of poor quality and high price. Hence the decline of the British car industry which is now predominantly owned by overseas companies.

 

[DIY campervan]

as someone has mentioned its getting rid of the heat build up when using it for heating thats the problem you would need to make a system where the water content of the heater dropped back when not wanted so you would need a resevoir below the heater and a pump it would have to be a primary loop and either an exspansion vessel or open vented
the technology is no different to any oil fired central heating boiler pump. burner, glowplug and some sensors

Yer that was my thought too but im going to try just letting it boil and gas up pushing the liquid back into the expansion tank. It is a open vented system and i have two automatic air release valves to eject any gas coming out of the inlet/outlet ports of the machine. When i start up the circulation pump any trapped gas is immediately ecected out those valves making it a fully flooded system again to heat the hot water tank. My only query about allowing the coolant to drop out is no air can get in the system to allow the drop out. Only air/gas can get out so this may cause a vacuum not allowing the coolant to drop out the machine. ? Interesting idea, ill read up on that technique.

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[Just smiffy]

Think JAP CRAP was the term,,how wrong we were..BUSBY.

Yep... Lexus the most reliable car in the world...

 

[busby]

Yep... Lexus the most reliable car in the world...

There were no Lexus back in early 70s when the term Jap Crap was used..Honda were knocking out decent motor bikes though..BUSBY.

 

[John Barrett]

There were no Lexus back in early 70s when the term Jap Crap was used..Honda were knocking out decent motor bikes though..BUSBY.

In all the time that I spent in North America I never met anyone who knew, or would admit, that a Lexus was really a Toyota in a posh dress!
Such is the power of marketing...
John

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[busby]

In all the time that I spent in North America I never met anyone who knew, or would admit, that a Lexus was really a Toyota in a posh dress!
Such is the power of marketing...
John

They now make them in USA and Canada..Great car,,BUSBY.

 

[John Barrett]

They now make them in USA and Canada..Great car,,BUSBY.

Agreed. A good alternative to my MB E350 Bluetec, but I prefer the tin star on the bonnet to a lazy L...
That reminds me:
Did you know that the Japanese had finally put a man into space?
I went out with the dog this morning and there was a nip in the air...

 

[jockaneezer]

My mate bought a Lexus L200 when he retired 17 years ago, he has it serviced as per the schedule and has only ever needed tyres and brakes in all that time. At his last service, it was pointed out that the service booklet had no more empty pages left in it, but "We can provide you with another booklet for only £48 Sir ?"

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[bigwood]

The place my mate worked at fitted night heaters to new trucks for the dealers in this area. One morning I called for a brew and there was a rather heated conversation between one of the electricians and what turned out to be a truck driver.
Apparently the pump for the heater had been fitted under the cab floor as usual. The driver complained it kept him awake all night because it was at pillow end of his bed. The electrician wasn’t very simpathetic towards the driver. He climbed in the cab and turned the drivers sleeping bag round. I left as the situation was heading to nasty words.
You can’t please some people but they fitted a lot of heaters and serviced the ones for the ambulances.

 

[adsummum]

Yer i agree with you all the way as originally when i was looking for just an air diesel heater i thought best buy webasto or the other good brands because i wanted to have a timer to set the heat on before i come back from say the pub. I wont trust cheap chinese unbranded products To be operational when I'm not present for fear of fire. They use inferior materials, wrong resisters, wrong electrical insulation and sizing. On counterfeit products the plastic covers can fuel a fire not extinguish it so i hear you 100%. However some product are good but may need a little fettling to fit lol. As you will see on my next video where i show you the problems, try to fix them and mock up the system for a bench test then ill upload on youtube for all to see. The reason i bought this air and water diesel heater is because if i can get it to work in a camper van it could well be a game changer for people on a budget. People with plenty of spare dosh i would totally recommend to not mess about and get the real deal for reliability, peace of mind, parts and a manufacturers guarantee. My next video is a must see for all but i suggest you subscribe so you dont miss it. Im only an amateur but I've s strong feeling this subject will be very interesting.

Hey great video by the way! Maybe I’m out to lunch here .. but why not simply add a toggle switch to the air fan on the unit.. this would prevent flow of air and allow you just to use the hydronic portion. I assume the exhaust has a separate fan .. (assume being the key word here ... other than that I’m thinking running the circ pump constant would be a draw back but I suppose you just switch it on when needed .. mine is a closed cooling system with a fairly good size loop so I doubt the water will ‘boil’ unless left on for a long time without any hot water use. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated I am torn between getting this or getting a second hydronic unit on top of existing air only ...

 

[Two on Tour]

Hey great video by the way! Maybe I’m out to lunch here .. but why not simply add a toggle switch to the air fan on the unit.. this would prevent flow of air and allow you just to use the hydronic portion. I assume the exhaust has a separate fan .. (assume being the key word here ... other than that I’m thinking running the circ pump constant would be a draw back but I suppose you just switch it on when needed .. mine is a closed cooling system with a fairly good size loop so I doubt the water will ‘boil’ unless left on for a long time without any hot water use. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated I am torn between getting this or getting a second hydronic unit on top of existing air only ...

The two fans for the heated air and the combustion air are on the same shaft powered by the one motor.

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