NCC Verified Battery Scheme Latest (1 Viewer)

[Basildog]

It specifically say 600 life cycles "when tested by the NCC" so if they haven't tested it to 600 cycles they are either purposely or inadvertently misleading the public and I am sure we will see an apology for their mistake in the next issue of MMM.

Wont we? OK that will be a NO then.

Martin

You might if the MMM team happened to be bombarded with emails on the subject ?
Actually no scrub that !
We are all in this together is actually the motto of the grubby little industry and its participants that the Motorhome and Caravan world has become.

 

[Nasher]

Bent as nine Bob notes...

That's not fair...












...on nine Bob notes

 

[LesW]

You might if the MMM team happened to be bombarded with emails on the subject ?
Actually no scrub that !
We are all in this together is actually the motto of the grubby little industry and its participants that the Motorhome and Caravan world has become.

There's an interesting thread about the NCC on the MMM forum, but no reply from any magazine staff.

Probably hiding in embarrassment..

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[PhilandMena]

There's an interesting thread about the NCC on the MMM forum, but no reply from any magazine staff.

Probably hiding in embarrassment..

Can you put a link to that ?

 

[LesW]

Can you put a link to that ?

It's quite long...
http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Don-t-mention-the-/49562/

 

[PhilandMena]

You may find this recent post by aandncaravanservices of great interest and I for one am looking forward to more updates and exposure of over rated Leisure batteries.

What a great day I have had on my tour of the Battery test faciliity. A real success, story.
But more on that later,

I had previously written to most of the companies who have batteries listed on the NCC verified battery scheme, to ask if they would release their battery test results into the public Domain after the NCC refused to do the same.

Yuasa have replied and said they will send all their tests for all the batteries submitted and I am hopeful that Exide and Banner will do the same.

I asked Yuasa, that if I created our own Battery 'approved' scheme, would Yuasa support us, and again the answer was YES.


The plan I have (only vague at the moment) is to create a web page where all the characteristics of all those batteries in the scheme are listed, along with the data from the tests.
I promise I won't get my two young children to just type random numbers to populate the fields. They will only be taken from the Test results.

A battery will only be listed if it has corresponding laboratory test data, visible for all to see.

I will set up a new thread to cover this as I would like to ask for help on this?



The battery test laboratory tour was brilliant. My guide for the day was a battery designer. A real expert who's job is to specify what technology goes into a battery.
I also met 2 other technicians and asked as many questions of everyone as I could.


It pretty much started with me being told I had stirred a Hornets nest.
"You will never guess who was here last week". said David.
"Who?" says I.

"Some technical chappie from the Caravan club asking all sorts of questions about AGM batteries". "He seemed to want to know if AGM's really would have short lives in the scenarios you painted on your Blog".

"What did you tell him?".

"You know I can't tell you that, and I don't want you putting on your website everything we talk about today".
He went on,
"But did you know that Audi/Volkswagen have pulled AGM batteries from all their cars?".

"What the whole group, including, including Skoda and Seat?"

He went on to explain that AGM are being kicked out and they are going back to Wet Acid/Flooded technology.
BMW were preparing to do the same.
But he told me not to say anything about Land Rover, so sorry, that bit is secret.

Apparently the official Audi line is that Wet acid technology has advanced so much in the last few years, that the difference between AGM and Wet acid is now so small that "the disadvantages of AGM make Flooded technology more attractive".

But the unofficial version is that AGM's have not 'performed in the field as well as expected'. I think in Allan speak that might mean they were rubbish?

Apparently most BMW Dealers have been replacing failed AGM's with Enhanced Flooded Batteries (EFB) for a while with great success (just as we reported 2 years ago on the AGM page) so they are now gearing up to migrate live production as well.

Allegedly Mercedes have replaced one of the two AGM's in the top cars with an EFB, which might suggest they are gearing up to follow suit?

Sorry I can't say anything about Landrover. He, he.

Yuasa had been working on a new Truck battery design, the battery that both powers the overnight sleeping area's Inverter, Microwave, kettle, Diesel Heater, reading Lights, TV, etc. ( doesn't it sound like a motorhome habitation area behind those big comfy seats!) and starts the engine. It was originally intended to use AGM techology, but that now looks like being binned with a move to EFB's.


So, to the person who emailed me over three years ago with, "You are wrong about AGM Allan. If they were not any good Hymer would not be fitting them", May I say back "If AGM were any good, Audi would not be de-installing them now".


Hopefully all that AGM news was also relayed to the MCC 'techie' and will result in a change on the NCC web pages, so two good results.

So far, so good.


When I was introduced to the Lab guys and they were told by my 'Tour guide' they were testing a battery for me, they asked which one.

When I told them, there was lots of laughter.
One called across the room to another techie, "he wants one of those batteries tested that you did a few weeks ago, how many cycles was it 60?"
"No one did nearly 70 and the other nearly 30".

"You must be mistaken" says I, "this battery delivers 220 cycles, that's verified by the NCC scheme".

More laughter.
I wonder if they have already tested other relevant batteries?

So we will have to see what the test shows, which might be a while as they were a bit busy.


They had 63 batteries directly on test, three in the Freezer waiting for them to reach -18 degrees before doing the 'Cranking amps' CCA test (and no, the Fish Fingers were not in there, they were in a separate freezer) and a couple in a paused state between tests.
There were banks of racks full of automation equipment, charging a battery, pausing, then discharging them all automatically. It was mind boggling.
Made my charger and Tungsten bulb look a bit Stone Age.

They showed me batteries mid way through a test and what they went through.
No wonder one of the budgets they tested managed only 7 cycles. A battery that you might be shocked to find out the name of.
You will all have heard of it and seen the label to the effect of "Heavy Duty Leisure".


That made me think that even if the NCC Verified scheme was open and honest, it wouldn't stop these horrors from being missold.

So on the drive back I hatched a cunning plan, more on that later.


I heard all sorts of stories, but after the telling, I got, "but you can't publish that".

Learnt a lot about the birth of the NCC/Caravan Club scheme as one of the technicians present was in at the start of the scheme, but again I can't relay that either.
But it will be put to good use at some point.


I did get shown a graph, that I can't talk about.
However, it showed a Varta LFD as one of the poorest performers against the other batteries.
I didn't get to see it properly, I think he saw me reach for my camera.............

They were all 'new release' batteries. One was a Banner that I need to research and the other was a new Yuasa Leisure battery using EFB technology, I didn't recognise the others.
Both batteries exceeded the Varta in every area, with higher cycle life, etc. So if I can track them down, look out for those two in the new "Al's Approved Battery scheme".


I learnt and saw loads that I can't all repeat, but what a great day. I was like a kiddy in a sweet shop.


To get Yuasa's support as well is brilliant.

I have a lot of updating to do on the web page : http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/campaign-for-battery-change.php but I am tired it will have to wait.

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[Blue Knight]

From the current MMM Magazine - shocking!!

 

[PhilandMena]

Received this email from Allan and agreed to update then forum on latest developments with respect to his campaign against the NCC Verified Leisure battery scheme.
Bit of a blow reading the last bit but sure members would want to know.


Hello, Phil, Manbat/Eurobat HAVE changed the labels on all their batteries as a result of us testing their batteries and finding them to have false figures.

The 110Ah batteries now state 100Ah on the label. the '85Ah' battery now shows 75Ah on the battery.


Really proud it was down to our work in testing their batteries and showing they were wrongly declared.

Achieved more for the consumer than the NCC every have.


We are now going after Platinum Batteries.

The battle with the NCC is still in progress.


Alpha Batteries now also want to work with us by being an 'enlightened' supplier by supplying matched pair batteries, driving new labelling standards, good advice, etc.

If the consumers support them showing they want a supplier that works for the consumer, then that will encourage Alpha to be the supplier the consumer wants.

Alpha know that if they don't deliver, the buyers will walk away. Conversations with their MD sound very promising.


That's the good news.


The bad news is that the cancer is back.

I have secondary cancer in my Liver, Lungs and Spleen and it's too far gone and extensive to cure.

I only have a short time left


Martin at A and N Caravan Services is carrying on my work and needs all the support he can get.



http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/campaign-for-battery-change.php

 

[Two on Tour]

So sorry to hear that things are not looking so good for you, our very best wishes to you and your family in these trying times.

Paul & Yvette

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[Basildog]

From the current MMM Magazine - shocking!!

View attachment 243913

There all in it together from the magazines to the dealers, manufacturers, campsites, clubs
All after your money .

 

[Lenny HB]

So sorry to hear that things are not looking so good for you, our very best wishes to you and your family in these trying times.

Paul & Yvette

Phil is OK, it is Alan from A & N Caravans that is not well.

 

[PhilandMena]

Correct Lenny although I have come close on the number of occasions when upsetting that redhead of mine.

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[Two on Tour]

Well, got that right around me neck then !! Read it again a little more carefully this time and it all makes sense.

Glad your going to be alive and kicking for longer than Phil I first thought but saddened to hear of anybody blighted by cancer so the same wishes go out to Alan and his family.

 

[maxi77]

Received this email from Allan and agreed to update then forum on latest developments with respect to his campaign against the NCC Verified Leisure battery scheme.
Bit of a blow reading the last bit but sure members would want to know.


Hello, Phil, Manbat/Eurobat HAVE changed the labels on all their batteries as a result of us testing their batteries and finding them to have false figures.

The 110Ah batteries now state 100Ah on the label. the '85Ah' battery now shows 75Ah on the battery.


Really proud it was down to our work in testing their batteries and showing they were wrongly declared.

Achieved more for the consumer than the NCC every have.


We are now going after Platinum Batteries.

The battle with the NCC is still in progress.


Alpha Batteries now also want to work with us by being an 'enlightened' supplier by supplying matched pair batteries, driving new labelling standards, good advice, etc.

If the consumers support them showing they want a supplier that works for the consumer, then that will encourage Alpha to be the supplier the consumer wants.

Alpha know that if they don't deliver, the buyers will walk away. Conversations with their MD sound very promising.


That's the good news.


The bad news is that the cancer is back.

I have secondary cancer in my Liver, Lungs and Spleen and it's too far gone and extensive to cure.

I only have a short time left


Martin at A and N Caravan Services is carrying on my work and needs all the support he can get.



http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/campaign-for-battery-change.php

It is rather disturbing that a company such as Manbat has been found deliberately misrepresenting their products. which companies can e trust to label their products correctly

 

[Basildog]

I went with my then 13 year old daughter to the distributor for Planinum batteries after our new ones failed on a Brand new Swift 2011 kontiki.
To cut a long story of loan batteries etc and me telling them that their F'ing crappy batteries aren't going to stop me taking my kids away and it was their problem not mine, they lent us some and then agreed to replace the pair ,but my daughter watched them take plain new batteries from a pallet and put stickers on saying leisure batteries, she saw another guy take more batteries from the same pallet and put car battery stickers on .
They are all at it

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[Blue Knight]

There all in it together from the magazines to the dealers, manufacturers, campsites, clubs
All after your money .

Yep, for sure. I've cancelled my MMM subs for that reason so that's some money saved