N.Yorkshire no motorhomes proposed order (1 Viewer)

Apr 27, 2008
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Strange that they think the Caravan Club is a relevant organisation to consult. They are site owners and have a vested interest in banning any camping outside sites.

I do like N. Yorkshire and have been there in the MH, but as my brother now has a 2 bedroom chalet available on the beach at Bridlington, I can stay there so definitely a freeloading tosser.:D
 

GJH

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Strange that they think the Caravan Club is a relevant organisation to consult. They are site owners and have a vested interest in banning any camping outside sites.

I do like N. Yorkshire and have been there in the MH, but as my brother now has a 2 bedroom chalet available on the beach at Bridlington, I can stay there so definitely a freeloading tosser.:D
Anybody can apply to be consulted on a LA plan whether they are relevant or not. I've known cases of individuals giving themselves an important sounding organisation name to try to make their views seem more relevant.

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John & Joan

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The Local Authorities' Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996

Consultation

6. (1) An order making authority shall, before making an order in a case specified in column (2) of an item in the table below, consult the persons specified in column (3) of the item.
(1)(2)(3)
ItemCaseConsultee
7.All cases
(a)The Freight Transport Association
(b)The Road Haulage Association
(c)Such other organisations (if any) representing persons likely to be affected by any provision in the order as the order making authority thinks it appropriate to consult
 

GJH

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In my experience (certainly the last authority I worked for) the words "as the order making authority thinks it appropriate to consult" were interpreted as widely as necessary to include anyone who expressed an interest. The thinking was that it was best to deal with any representations (especially objections) up front rather than having to go back and fight battles later on.
 
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Has anyone seen the Caravan Club response? Presumably they will be happy to disseminate it to all members, via one of their highly respected publications?

If not, it will eventually be available via a Freedom of Information request to Scarborough Council/North Yorks Council, as mentioned in the consultation notes.

I have never "wilded" nor do I have any great intention to "wild" in the Scarborough area (despite my earlier response to their consultation). However, I do not want my future freedoms to be restricted and I might just resign from CC if they do not represent my feelings sensitively.

Gordon

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John & Joan

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The Motorhome Tourism Response

CONSULTATION RE. MOTOR CARAVAN PROHIBITION – VARIOUS LOCATIONS
Filey Road, Cayton Bay, Osgodby Hill, Cayton Bay, The Beach, Filey,
Crescent Hill, Filey, The Crescent, Filey, Sandsend Road, Sandsend,
North Promendade, Whitby, East Terrace, Whitby, Royal Crescent, Whitby,
Love Lane, Whitby, North Terrace, Whitby, Church Street, Whitby,
Royal Albert Drive, Scarborough, Sandside, Scarborough,
Foreshore Road, Scarborough, Esplanade, Scarborough.
Q1 Contact name _The Motor Caravan Tourism Organisation (John J Thompson)
Q2 Contact address
Q3 Telephone/fax/email
__c/o xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx______ ____Tel _______
___DARLINGTON_____________ _____email: john.thompson@tmcto.org.uk
___Co. Durham ______________ _____email 2:
____xxxxx________________
Q4
Do you support the introduction of a traffic regulation order that prohibits motor
caravans from parking on the highway any day from 11pm to 7am?

No
Q5 Would you support an exemption from the above order for anyone displaying a
blue badge in a motor caravan?
No
Q6 Would you support an exemption for residents that own a motor caravan and live
on any of the streets directly affected by the order?
No
Q7 Are there any other comments you wish to make regarding motor caravan
prohibition?
We object to the implementation of these orders in their present form for the following reasons

  1. North Yorkshire County Council ban on motor caravans waiting overnight seems to be particularly unreasonable and discriminatory. It is singling out a particular sub class of passenger vehicle category without an affect on other vehicles. Only 3.96% of vehicles registered as Motor Caravans are category M1 Figures from Department for Transport (DfT) Vehicle Stats for quarter ending March 2014. 7.5% are category N1 or N2 Goods vehicles. 13.91% are classed as “other” and 74.63% as “missing”. Therefor 96% of “Motor Caravans” using DfT statistics would be exempt from these restrictions.
  2. Traffic Regulation Orders are to enable authorities to control the flow of road vehicles or pedestrian traffic. They are meant to exclude all vehicles, with exemptions for certain vehicles.(ie. service and emergency vehicles.) They are not for the prohibition of one particular “body type” of vehicle, as North Yorkshire County Council are attempting to implement. This ban is not to improve traffic flows and will not improve amenity as other traffic (including exempted motor caravans) will still be allowed to continue to park.
  3. Bans on vehicles parking should be motivated and based on reasonable objections such as the external dimensions of the vehicle or the Maximum Permissible Gross Vehicle Weight (MPGVW) of the vehicle. Therefor a ban on one type of vehicle body type within a vehicle category, be it goods or passenger is unreasonable, if not based on vehicle dimensions.
  4. In car parks or roadside parking bays if any vehicle is parked properly, without exceeding markings delimiting the parking space, or exceeds the time permitted (if any) and the necessary fee is paid (if applicable), for the space used. It is irrelevant whether the occupants are inside the vehicle, or what activities they are undertaking therein and the motorhome is no exception, providing that the activity in the interior, does not spill out to the exterior, such as noise or by the setting up of elements which surpass the perimeter of the vehicle, such as tables and chairs, awnings, levelling devices, stabilizing devices, etc. There are other powers available to deal with these issues.
  5. This is a blunt, unreasonable and discriminatory instrument to try to achieve, the local authorities existing prohibitions on, sleeping, camping or cooking in vehicles, The local authorities existing prohibitions on sleeping, camping or cooking in vehicles, have not been enforced. These existing prohibitions have been deemed to be legally unenforceable. Although no cases have been taken to a court of law over these prohibitions. Is driving away this tourism spending justifiable on an unfounded assumption? North Yorkshire County Council have not made it clear how the overnight parking of motor caravans significantly detracts from the amenity of the local area (what ever this is, as the authority have not defined it, despite requests to do so) and the lives of those living in the streets.
  6. It is time that a distinction was drawn in legislation produced by UK local authorities between Trailer Caravans (O) and Motor Caravan M1(SP) vehicle categories. Definitions used in legislation is based on the 1984 or 1988 definitions which have been superseded by adoption into UK law of EU definitions. The council have plucked this one definition of a motor caravan out of the many other vehicle categories contained within European Directive 2007/46/EC.which was adopted into UK law in 2012. There is a vast difference between a Caravette (a small van equipped to Minimum M1(SP) specifications) and a fully self contained motor caravan which is designed and built to be used to for many days without the need for site services.
  7. 75% of Caravan site pitches are given over to static holiday units which are not classified as vehicles. In addition many touring caravans are taken to caravan sites and left for the season, their owners then using a car to get to the caravan site and to visit attractions. 89% of Motor Caravans are used year round, unlike touring caravans which are stored during the off season. . Motor Caravans are a means of transport not just accommodation.
  8. If this prohibitions does go ahead, many people, including disabled persons, who use a Caravette (an M1 (SP) Vehicle) as their sole means of transport, would not be able to visit any of your hotels and B&Bs if they wished to, as they would have no parking provision to leave their vehicle in for the night. Is driving away this tourism spending justifiable?
  9. An exemption from the order for anyone displaying a blue badge in a motor caravan could lead to abuse.of the exemption by those misusing blue badges. These vehicles could be considered as much a significant detraction from the amenity (whatever this is) of the local area and the lives of those living in the streets, as any other motor caravan.
  10. An exemption from the order for residents could lead to abuse of the exemption by those misusing residents passes These vehicles could be considered as much a significant detraction from the amenity (whatever this is) of the local area and the lives of those living in the streets, as any other motor caravan.
I have seen the response from another contributor and Andy Strangeways email.
 

Cal54

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This obviously is a very hot topic and I appreciate the view that France is better, but I personally enjoy the UK and am saddened when such problems occur. Being a Lancashire lass I know I shouldn't travel to the 'dark side' but I do like it and wouldn't want any restrictions.
Fylde council have been running a temp scheme looking at an Aires type facility - admittedly it is only an overnight parking option at present but at least it is a start and they have produced a feasibility study - these are the councils we should be supporting. Vist St Anne's and make the most of what is on offer.
 
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That is a fantastic response - from the Motorhome Tourism Organisation. It makes me proud to see well informed, balanced argument to those wishing to impose stupid bylaws to suit those with a bias view.


I so want to see the response from the Caravan Club.
Until this is available you may want to take a look at the Caravan Club's guide "You and Your Motorhome".

Here's an extract of how they see things...

"Parking
The law says you can’t leave a vehicle or
outfit where it may cause an obstruction.
Because lay-bys are part of the highway, you
can’t camp overnight in them. Observe local
by-laws, which may prevent the parking of
some motorhomes in street bays. It is an
offence to drive more than 15 yards off the
road without authority in both urban and rural
areas. Always read any car park signs carefully
before leaving your vehicle, as many operators
have specific restrictions on the types allowed.
Watch out for height barriers on many car
parks, which will generally only allow the
smallest motorhomes entry."


Pathetic

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johnp10

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oh dear....is that the whole of YARKSHIRE then.
Better set the whole county as an 'avoid' into your satnavs. :ROFLMAO:

Not far from the only option if these tossers have their way, John.

A total Boycott of the area, ensuring local businesses are made aware of the reasons for it, may be the only way to cut through the bullshit generated by these councils.
 

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