N.Yorkshire no motorhomes proposed order (1 Viewer)

[robnchris]

We see this type of statement frequently, Rob, but in that form it is purely anecdotal. Many motorhomers take food &c with them and spend very little in some places. What is required is a statement providing hard facts about the amount of money which might be spent in a given location. That might then turn the tide in our favour.

Graham,

With the greatest of respect sooner or later even the free loaders that try to carry everything with them have to stop to buy fuel, half a dozen eggs, a loaf of bread or pint of milk.

I personally wouldn`t bother qualifying anything to North Yorkshire council or any of the others that have a we don`t want motorhomes here attitude.
I`d rather go somewhere were I felt welcome and give them my hard earned cash.:thumb::thumb:

 

[Ralph-n-Bev]

:thumb:

 

[pappajohn]

Graham,

With the greatest of respect sooner or later even the free loaders that try to carry everything with them have to stop to buy fuel, half a dozen eggs, a loaf of bread or pint of milk.

I personally wouldn`t bother qualifying anything to North Yorkshire council or any of the others that have a we don`t want motorhomes here attitude.
[HI]I`d rather go somewhere were I felt welcome and give them my hard earned cash.[/HI]:thumb::thumb:

France maybe !!!

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[teddybard]

I have in the past spent a great deal of time
in Scarborough Whitby and Robinhoods bay
and consequently a lot of money in the area.
However if this is the genuinely the attitude
of the Local Council. I for one will vote with my feet.
England is a large country and I can well do without
aggravation from local Jobsworths
no matter how well intentioned or self-centred.

 

[GJH]

Graham,

[HI]With the greatest of respect sooner or later even the free loaders that try to carry everything with them have to stop to buy fuel, half a dozen eggs, a loaf of bread or pint of milk.[/HI]

I personally wouldn`t bother qualifying anything to North Yorkshire council or any of the others that have a we don`t want motorhomes here attitude.
I`d rather go somewhere were I felt welcome and give them my hard earned cash.:thumb::thumb:

True, Rob, but without quantifying the spend the argument is easy to dismiss as spurious :Sad:

 

[joner8888]

Went for a Honda Pan clan m/bike ride up there last week :thumb:---

Wonderful scenery, nice empty roads, good pubs, sun was out --

Which leaves me wondering why does everyone crams down the M5 to the south west where it`s all overpriced ,full up and crap theme pubs

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[yorkieman]

True, Rob, but without quantifying the spend the argument is easy to dismiss as spurious :Sad:

It is hard to quantify everyone's spend, but I can tell you that this weekend we chose to go to Skipton (rather than Ripon) and I have just totted up how much we spent.

OVER £150!!!

And that didn't include any site fees as we stayed in a pub/restaurant car park.

Here's the breakdown.

£50 on evening meals and a drink (in the pub/restaurant we parked up in)
£10 on breakfast and coffee
£6 on car park in Skipton
£20 in Bodyshop in Skipton
£5 on coffee in Beans on Sunday (an independent coffee shop in Skipton)
£5 on newspapers and books in WH Smiths in Skipton
£20 on lunch and coffee on Saturday
£36 on shopping (mainly clothes for wife, but also a little phone holder for me)

We did also eat in the MH, so we did take food with us, but we also did our bit to keep the economy going too.

Sometimes we might spend more and sometimes less, but we ALWAYS contribute in some way to the local economy and I am pretty sure that most motorhomers do.

 

[GJH]

It is hard to quantify everyone's spend, but I can tell you that this weekend we chose to go to Skipton (rather than Ripon) and I have just totted up how much we spent.

OVER £150!!!

And that didn't include any site fees as we stayed in a pub/restaurant car park.

Here's the breakdown.

£50 on evening meals and a drink (in the pub/restaurant we parked up in)
£10 on breakfast and coffee
£6 on car park in Skipton
£20 in Bodyshop in Skipton
£5 on coffee in Beans on Sunday (an independent coffee shop in Skipton)
£5 on newspapers and books in WH Smiths in Skipton
£20 on lunch and coffee on Saturday
£36 on shopping (mainly clothes for wife, but also a little phone holder for me)

We did also eat in the MH, so we did take food with us, but we also did our bit to keep the economy going too.

Sometimes we might spend more and sometimes less, but we ALWAYS contribute in some way to the local economy and I am pretty sure that most motorhomers do.

Great, that's exactly the sort of thing I've been talking about. Why not write to NYCC giving that example plus a couple of others (to provide a representative sample)? That way they have definite evidence rather than some airy fairy anecdotes.

 

[yorkieman]

Great, that's exactly the sort of thing I've been talking about. Why not write to NYCC giving that example plus a couple of others (to provide a representative sample)? That way they have definite evidence rather than some airy fairy anecdotes.

You're right.

Maybe we need to set up a little survey for people to fill in the details for their typical budget per trip.

I'd be happy to put an online survey together if that would help.

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[scotjimland]

It is hard to quantify everyone's spend, but I can tell you that this weekend we chose to go to Skipton (rather than Ripon) and I have just totted up how much we spent.

OVER £150!!!

And that didn't include any site fees as we stayed in a pub/restaurant car park.

Here's the breakdown.

£50 on evening meals and a drink (in the pub/restaurant we parked up in)
£10 on breakfast and coffee
£6 on car park in Skipton
£20 in Bodyshop in Skipton
£5 on coffee in Beans on Sunday (an independent coffee shop in Skipton)
£5 on newspapers and books in WH Smiths in Skipton
£20 on lunch and coffee on Saturday
£36 on shopping (mainly clothes for wife, but also a little phone holder for me)

We did also eat in the MH, so we did take food with us, but we also did our bit to keep the economy going too.

Sometimes we might spend more and sometimes less, but we ALWAYS contribute in some way to the local economy and I am pretty sure that most motorhomers do.

A lot of people have no where near that amount of cash to splash on a weekend.. or have any desire to do so.. our's would definitely be a lot less.

For example.. we wouldn't spend £80 on eating out and drinking.
I wouldn't buy newspapers.. £5 or expensive coffees.. £5

General shopping is a variable..

Our weekend spend would normally be

1. A visit to a supermarket to stock up before leaving home.. say £50
2. Fuel. £60 approx.
3. Site fees .. variable , but average say £15 per night = £30

So area apart from site fees.. very little in the local area..


so yes, and on-line survey may be useful..

 

[buttons]

A lot of people have no where near that amount of cash to splash on a weekend.. or have any desire to do so.. our's would definitely be a lot less.

For example.. we wouldn't spend £80 on eating out and drinking.
I wouldn't buy newspapers.. £5 or expensive coffees.. £5

General shopping is a variable..

Our weekend spend would normally be

1. A visit to a supermarket to stock up before leaving home.. say £50
2. Fuel. £60 approx.
3. Site fees .. variable , but average say £15 per night = £30

So area apart from site fees.. very little in the local area..

so yes, and on-line survey may be useful..

I think yours is a far more realistic spend than some Jim. I have been a camper for a number of decades where I have met many fellow campers of every persuasion. The common factor among most of them is only spend when there is no other alternative.:Cool:

 

[scotjimland]

I think yours is a far more realistic spend than some Jim. I have been a camper for a number of decades where I have met many fellow campers of every persuasion. The common factor among most of them is only spend when there is no other alternative.:Cool:

People go 'away' for all sorts of different reasons.. and on all sorts of budgets.

some as we do just want to escape and enjoy the outdoors, walking, cycling, fishing, visiting new places, etc .. so only spent what is required in order to do so... and if we can camp free.. a bonus.
we need to watch our money and make it go as far as possible.. literally.

some go away to visit attractions.. cities, castles, historical buildings etc.

others to pursue a hobby.. or interest.. like dog shows, motor sport etc

and some just to spend money on meals and shopping..

perhaps all of above and more..

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[yorkieman]

A lot of people have no where near that amount of cash to splash on a weekend.. or have any desire to do so.. our's would definitely be a lot less.

For example.. we wouldn't spend £80 on eating out and drinking.
I wouldn't buy newspapers.. £5 or expensive coffees.. £5

General shopping is a variable..

Our weekend spend would normally be

1. A visit to a supermarket to stock up before leaving home.. say £50
2. Fuel. £60 approx.
3. Site fees .. variable , but average say £15 per night = £30

So area apart from site fees.. very little in the local area..


so yes, an on-line survey may be useful..

Very Interesting.

You spent £140 against out £150.

We went local. We're lucky to be surrounded by such wonderful country side so very little fuel.

We ate out a lot so didn't need to spend £50 at a giant megacorp like Tescos, as we'd rather giving it to local independents and farmers markets.

We spent nothing on site fees as we have no need for toilet blocks, shower blocks, on-site entertainment, EHU, or enough land to erect an awning.

Don't get me wrong, I love a good site, and we stay on them most of the time, but it makes me feel warm knowing that last weekend my carbon footprint was low (little fuel and solar), and apart from £5 on a paper and a book at WH Smiths none of our expenditure went to megacorps - it all went to local traders.

 

[GJH]

People go 'away' for all sorts of different reasons.. and on all sorts of budgets.

some as we do just want to escape and enjoy the outdoors, walking, cycling, fishing, visiting new places, etc .. so only spent what is required in order to do so... and if we can camp free.. a bonus.
we need to watch our money and make it go as far as possible.. literally.

some go away to visit attractions.. cities, castles, historical buildings etc.

others to pursue a hobby.. or interest.. like dog shows, motor sport etc

and some just to spend money on meals and shopping..

perhaps all of above and more..

Very Interesting.

You spent £140 against out £150.

We went local. We're lucky to be surrounded by such wonderful country side so very little fuel.

We ate out a lot so didn't need to spend £50 at a giant megacorp like Tescos, as we'd rather giving it to local independents and farmers markets.

We spent nothing on site fees as we have no need for toilet blocks, shower blocks, on-site entertainment, EHU, or enough land to erect an awning.

Don't get me wrong, I love a good site, and we stay on them most of the time, but it makes me feel warm knowing that last weekend my carbon footprint was low (little fuel and solar), and apart from £5 on a paper and a book at WH Smiths none of our expenditure went to megacorps - it all went to local traders.

The point is, though, that both types of spending are typical of some motorhomers. If the local spenders are the majority then there is an economic benefit to the area visited but if those who stock up in advance are the majority then there may not be.

In Jim's example there was an economic benefit to the area visited because of the money spent on site fees. If he were to use a free roadside spot to camp, though, there there would be little economic benefit to the area visited.

In many cases local people/councils perceive that those who use free spots fall into the latter category so bring no benefit to the area whilst (in their view) despoiling it with their big, ugly vehicles.

 

[scotjimland]

Very Interesting.

You spent £140 against out £150.

We went local. We're lucky to be surrounded by such wonderful country side so very little fuel.

We ate out a lot so didn't need to spend £50 at a giant megacorp like Tescos, as we'd rather giving it to local independents and farmers markets.

We spent nothing on site fees as we have no need for toilet blocks, shower blocks, on-site entertainment, EHU, or enough land to erect an awning.

Don't get me wrong, I love a good site, and we stay on them most of the time, but it makes me feel warm knowing that last weekend my carbon footprint was low (little fuel and solar), and apart from £5 on a paper and a book at WH Smiths none of our expenditure went to megacorps - it all went to local traders.

well, you can use stats to support whatever argument you like.. for example.

we could stay local.. Suffolk coast is lovely.. (As Buttons will testify) and not spend £60 on fuel.. that was just an example.

We eat the same food away as we do at home .. so that is really £zero

We may camp off site .. £ZERO .. know several sleepy spots nearby

While away we are not using leccy or water at home.. saving money. ++ £

so our w/e could actually save money.. ..


my point was that we are all different.. and we definitely don't have £150 to splash on a w/e .. that's nearly a weeks pension money ..

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[GJH]

I didn't keep a track of our spend on our last two trips (weekend fairly local plus a long distance 2 week trip) but what I can remember is listed below.

Weekend at Sedgefield (14 miles away):
Main food & drink for weekend bought at home.
Filled up with diesel at Morrisons a couple of miles from home, approx £70.
MCC weekend meet fees, £16 for 2 nights.
Donation to RNLI + £1.50 to RNLI for evening raffle prize.
Light lunch at mediaeval fayre refreshment rooms, approx £8.
Purchase at Sunday car boot sale, £10.
LPG fill up on way back, a mile or so from home, approx £15.


Two week trip to south east and back.
Stock of food & drink bought at home.
C&CC THS fee at Yarwell, £12.
2 nights at Canterbury P&R, £6.
Pub by P&R, about £12.
Pub lunch & other refreshments in Canterbury, approx £15.
Micro SD card in Currys, about £10.
Other purchases in Canterbury, approx £30.
Filled up with diesel and topped up food/drink at Asda Canterbury, approx £80.
Detling Show
Purchases from show traders, approx £40.
Forest Row, four nights at CL, £24
Buses to Brighton, Tunbridge Wells, Crawley & East Grinstead, £0 (bus passes).
Pub lunches, about £40.
Purchases in Brighton rock, about £17.
Purchases in Tunbridge Wells, about £7.
Purchases in Forest Row, about £12.
Purchases in Crawley, about £60.
MCC National at Stafford, fees £55.
Drinks at meet, about £14.
Filled up with diesel and topped up food/drink at Asda Stafford, approx £70.
Site fees at Glossop, £36.
Two taxis in Glossop, £10.
Pub lunch (with guests), approx £28.
Other spend in Glossop, approx £2.

Neither is really typical as we often spend more on a weekend trip (Jill bought an expensive leather handbag in Skipton a few months ago for example) and might well have a different mix of places to stay on longer trips. It all depends on where we are staying, what the local amenities are and what local produce appeals and/or we need.

 

[voyager 1]

why do we need to justify what we spend i could go and park in the same areas in my car and whether i stayed in it overnight or not i do not have to plea my case that i am benefiting the local economy. Its all about being discriminated against parking what you drive ie motorhomes It seems that the councils have got a downer on all motoromes and enforcing this parking ban is only the tip of the iceburg

 

[Puddleduck]

I think it is totally unfair that a single type of vehicle is being discriminated against. They should instigate a "residents parking zone", OR allow / ban any sleeping / cooking / camping in ALL vehicles.

What will happen if HGV vehicles started to park there overnight? Or even unconverted panel vans that are used as motorhomes?

To single out motorhomes is blatantly unfair when other types of vehicle will blight the amenities of the area just as much.

Yes, I have replied to the consultation.

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[Wildbill]

all I c say is scarbough is still open for business the freeloading tossers are laving in there droves.
we stop at the sea life centre
Oliver's mount
and many more free parking places
all over the aria
the badge holding free loading tossers with there 30 40 50 k vans now fill up the residential arias
we walked past them on the way to the local shops whar we spent 25 pounds
Then the local pub a tenner then the pub at the sea life centre 30.
Eventually all the freeloaders arrived in the car park for the free parking
got out there banjos and never ventured out of there vans
there the ones thay want rid of

 

[GJH]

I think it is totally unfair that a single type of vehicle is being discriminated against. They should instigate a "residents parking zone", OR allow / ban any sleeping / cooking / camping in ALL vehicles.

What will happen if HGV vehicles started to park there overnight? Or even unconverted panel vans that are used as motorhomes?

To single out motorhomes is blatantly unfair when other types of vehicle will blight the amenities of the area just as much.

Yes, I have replied to the consultation.

why do we need to justify what we spend i could go and park in the same areas in my car and whether i stayed in it overnight or not i do not have to plea my case that i am benefiting the local economy. Its all about being discriminated against parking what you drive ie motorhomes It seems that the councils have got a downer on all motoromes and enforcing this parking ban is only the tip of the iceburg

There is no discrimination at all.

The reason why motorhomes are specifically excluded is that the problems (perceived or real, it makes no odds) are caused by motorhome users camping rather than simply parking (so certainly no discrimination "against parking"), something which does not happen with other vehicles (or, if it does, to an insignificant extent).

We also have to appreciate that councils have to support their local residents and businesses and practices which adversely affect those groups (again whether they be perceived or real makes no odds) will inevitably attract action.

Councils are increasingly making facilities available for motorhomes, mainly during the day but also inroads are being made in overnight provision. We need to build on that by providing positive reasons for councils to invest the resources necessary.

 

[Wildbill]

There is no discrimination at all.

The reason why motorhomes are specifically excluded is that the problems (perceived or real, it makes no odds) are caused by motorhome users camping rather than simply parking (so certainly no discrimination "against parking"), something which does not happen with other vehicles (or, if it does, to an insignificant extent).

We also have to appreciate that councils have to support their local residents and businesses and practices which adversely affect those groups (again whether they be perceived or real makes no odds) will inevitably attract action.

Councils are increasingly making facilities available for motorhomes, mainly during the day but also inroads are being made in overnight provision. We need to build on that by providing positive reasons for councils to invest the resources necessary.

council are happy for vans to park up but some need to learn to take there s.....t
and pay for the use of the facility's and not abuse them not just take it for granted blue badge freeload I se more with blue badges fitter than I am then disabled
bill

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[yorkieman]

It is such a shame that there are freeloaders who always want to take and not put anything back. It spoils it for the vast majority of motorhomers who are good folk, who would be more likely to pick someone else's litter up than drop it themselves.

 

[Puddleduck]

The reason why motorhomes are specifically excluded is that the problems (perceived or real, it makes no odds) are caused by motorhome users camping rather than simply parking (so certainly no discrimination "against parking"), something which does not happen with other vehicles (or, if it does, to an insignificant extent).

There was a real problem near here with people camping/sleeping in their cars. As cars generally don't have any "facilities" you can imagine the mess. The solution was to "ban" sleeping / cooking in all vehicles in certain locations. I know it was a real problem rather than a perceived problem as I was an independent advocate for someone who was prosecuted having failed to pay fines.

 

[GJH]

There was a real problem near here with people camping/sleeping in their cars. As cars generally don't have any "facilities" you can imagine the mess. The solution was to "ban" sleeping / cooking in all vehicles in certain locations. I know it was a real problem rather than a perceived problem as I was an independent advocate for someone who was prosecuted having failed to pay fines.

I can well believe it. Many (perhaps most) councils ban cooking and sleeping (and other activities such as maintenance and cleaning) in all vehicles in car parks.

By contrast, in the absence of a specific order, camping at the roadside is legal (see Here) and orders are only introduced to combat specific problems.

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[knokinonabit]

As an HGV driver, when my driving hours were up, I would park in the first available lay by if I had not reached an official lorry park or designated parking area. The only area that I had any trouble with was Cumbria, whose police force (service) insisted that you park with lights on at night as you were still on the highway, even in a lay by that was separated from the road by a grass verge or island.
I also used to cook in the truck, but all of my rubbish went in a bag and was deposited in proper waste containers as soon as I could find one.
Toilet duties could pose a bit of a problem, but a large empty bottle worked for one function, while "holding on" for a while did the trick for the other. Find a toilet and empty the bottle as well.

A bit unhygienic perhaps, but it worked for me.
Others, I know, weren't as fastidious.

 

[GJH]

[HI]As an HGV driver, when my driving hours were up, I would park in the first available lay by if I had not reached an official lorry park or designated parking area.[/HI] The only area that I had any trouble with was Cumbria, whose police force (service) insisted that you park with lights on at night as you were still on the highway, even in a lay by that was separated from the road by a grass verge or island.
I also used to cook in the truck, but all of my rubbish went in a bag and was deposited in proper waste containers as soon as I could find one.
Toilet duties could pose a bit of a problem, but a large empty bottle worked for one function, while "holding on" for a while did the trick for the other. Find a toilet and empty the bottle as well.

A bit unhygienic perhaps, but it worked for me.
Others, I know, weren't as fastidious.

This is the reason why camping by the roadside isn't banned by default and why HGVs aren't normally included in orders which ban motorhomes. Legislators (both national and local) recognise that HGV drivers have no option but to stop at times but the rest of us have the freedom to plan rest stops into our journeys as we wish.

 

[yorkieman]

but the rest of us have the freedom to plan rest stops into our journeys as we wish.

I agree with this sentiment, but can think of many occasions when I have been on a long distance drive, both in this country and abroad, when I have developed such a tiredness that I had no option, but to pull over and have a sleep.

And I am not talking when I have been in the motorhome.

One time I was heading back from the South of France. I got all the way to Leicester Forest service station and although I only had 100 miles to get home, there was no way I was going to risk the lives of other road users by carrying on.

I stopped in the service station for a 'quick nap' and ended up waking up 5 hours later. Luckily, this was in the days before you could overstay your welcome in such places.

Safety when driving is of paramount importance and if people - whether they are in a motorhome, car or HGV, should have the freedom to sleeve wherever they want, whenever they want. Surely, that is a basic human right!

I think this is totally different to getting out the deck chairs, setting up a BBQ, and generally pitching up for the day. That is a totally different thing altogether.

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[jezport]

When I have slept overnight in car parks I have never seen a motorhomer dump waste. I have seen car users dump nappies food rubbish and worse. Most of the so called issues with motorhomes do not exist. They are made up to cover up other facts like councillors or their friends having interests in camp sites.

There is legislation for dealing with people who dump waste or park obstructing junctions, the council and the police should enforce them not start bull sh!t bans.

 

[John & Joan]

Following on from a separate thread it appears North Yorkshire county council have proposed a new Order for “No Motor Caravans” with a temporary order already in place.

Perhaps Motorhomefun as a group of motorhomers and concerned citizens should also push to be consulted as it appears they are consulting with the Caravan Club

Perhaps Motorhomefun should be asking the Caravan Club to inform our organisation each time they are consulted.

The law does state that they have to consult interested parties. They must by law consult the Road Haulage Association (RHA) and the Freight Transport Association (FTA) and the Police and that they have to advertise.
North Yorkshire legal department just did an internet search and came up with The Caravan Club. The National Motorhome Organisation and The Motorhome Tourism Organisations as bodies representing Motor Caravans. No very systematic or thorough was it!

As a result of Andy Strangways challenging and questioning.
North Yorkshire County Council legal department stated on Friday 27th June that:
“I have spoken to officers at the Whitby Highways Office and have also discussed the case with one of my senior colleagues – in a nutshell, we are all going to meet to review the case and decide whether we feel it is appropriate to proceed given that we would face a certain legal challenge.”
and 3oth June
"The County Council are still considering how to proceed in this matter"

Only 3 more days before the consultation closes. No more info on if they are going to proceed.

The Motorhome Tourism Organisations have made their formal submission.

 

[pappajohn]

Can nobody see any further than the written word ?

Scraborough council have already decided motorhome overnight stops will be banned.

No amount of objections willstop this happening as the will always find another way to instigate temp prohibition order after temp prohibition order.

I live here, i see how the council work.

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