Mystery Start Failure on Fiat Ducato based Vehicles (1 Viewer)

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Sep 23, 2020
23
38
Cambridgeshire
Funster No
76,189
MH
Laika Kreos 7009
Exp
Since 2002
Anyone experienced a start fail when engine is hot on Fiat Ducato based vehicles?

We have had several frustrating start failures on our MH when the vehicle is hot and after a long run. Strangely, it only happens if we stop for more than 10 minutes and less than 45 minutes – turning the starter key does not turn the starter motor! Everything else works – just the starter motor does not turn. Outside this timing window, always fine.

At first, we all thought it was the starter motor, but that was ruled out at an early stage after testing out a replacement. Then everyone suspected the security system, but again that was temporarily disconnected, and it still happened! But we are not sure if this is conclusive, and the security system remains a contender.

Now we also think it could be something to do with the engine management system.

Recently the problem occurred when waiting to board the Channel Tunnel train on the French side. We could not start, and the recovery crew came to help. They had seen the same because of low AdBlue and the engine management system preventing a start! Later we checked and found we were 2/3 full of AdBlue. By the time they got into further investigation we had passed 45 minutes and the vehicle started. At least we got on the train, but the stress wondering whether we would start at the other end…it did – been on more than 40 minutes.

We have also heard of this happening on other Ducato vehicles and have been in convoy with friends when it happened on theirs at the same time as ours – very weird! But still no idea what the cause was.

Oh, and the Auto Stop/Start feature never fails – as it happens before the 10 minutes timeout!!! But pull into a petrol station – spend longer than 10 minutes at the pump and were in trouble…

But despite many investigations no one appears to have discovered why. We now know how to avoid it, but not how to prevent it!

Anyone got any ideas? A real puzzler…
 
Mar 21, 2022
173
308
Bradford, UK
Funster No
87,580
MH
Chausson 711
Exp
Since 2009
I have had this happen on a Boxer, it was the engine earth lead, fine when cold, but once engine warmed up I occasionally experienced similar problems.

Next time it happens if you have a jump lead to hand worth trying earthing the engine just to rule this out.
 
Sep 3, 2012
7,757
26,634
Cheshire
Funster No
22,759
MH
C Class Elddis 175
Exp
8+ years
Yes ,check the earth leads and fit another one from the battery to a new point on the engine block.Cheap and easy to do yourself. (y)
 
Feb 15, 2014
726
1,276
cambridgeshire
Funster No
30,113
MH
Bessacar E450
Exp
3 years
we have a boxer removal van come in and sometimes you just get a small click amd no start but holding onto key for longer seems to help so think it could be ignition switch itself
 

brynric

LIFE MEMBER
Sep 5, 2009
757
1,644
Worcestershire
Funster No
8,333
MH
Pilote G600
Exp
2012
We’ve had exactly the same problem, 4 non-starts when hot and a few minutes pause.
A water fill at a Moho show
An LPG lane in Vienna
A filling station on the autobahn
And a supermarket ( next to a filling station)
That’s to be balanced against hundreds of starts with no problem but it does lead to a deal of stress “maybe this time” I tend to avoid single lane filling stations!
And the cause??
.
.
I’ve no idea!!!

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OP
OP
Chris_H
Sep 23, 2020
23
38
Cambridgeshire
Funster No
76,189
MH
Laika Kreos 7009
Exp
Since 2002
Yes - It was the alarm system incorrectly preventing the vehicle from being re-started when hot, in some circumstances.

Apparently if the alarm system ignition cut is not installed in the correct part of the wiring loom it can cause this issue and it could not be overridden by any alarm setting! The same problem was found on some other similar vehicles - but it took some finding. We have now had the alarm ignition cut-out re-positioned and its since been fine...I hope!
 

brynric

LIFE MEMBER
Sep 5, 2009
757
1,644
Worcestershire
Funster No
8,333
MH
Pilote G600
Exp
2012
Yes - It was the alarm system incorrectly preventing the vehicle from being re-started when hot, in some circumstances.

Apparently if the alarm system ignition cut is not installed in the correct part of the wiring loom it can cause this issue and it could not be overridden by any alarm setting! The same problem was found on some other similar vehicles - but it took some finding. We have now had the alarm ignition cut-out re-positioned and its since been fine...I hope!
Thanks for that. I have to ask what was the system? Feel free to pm me if you don’t want to start a lengthy debate.

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Jan 27, 2009
887
3,495
Leyland Lancs
Funster No
5,472
MH
A class
Exp
since 2001
Some time ago there seemed to be a similar 'starting' problem on the Sigma M30 system on Fiats.
On our Hymer at the time, it was the 12v 'link' to the starter motor which eventually was bypassed when the MH refused to start at all. The other 12v 'link' was to the fuel pump I think.
 
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