Motorhoming TV, its not complicated (1 Viewer)

bullrush

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Is it just me or do some people look for problems when on the continent.
Our satellite reception is great, 60cm dish on a pole clamped to the bike rack and dont worry about the sat finder or the skew angles just point it a bit left of south, watch the tv screen which will show no signal, move the pole around a bit and the tv bursts into life. Oh yes the dish and pole came to £29 on Ebay. We have used this all over France without any problems.

Oh yes.....If your propane gas is low get the charging adaptors on Ebay and providing your cylinder is EMPTY charge it in the LPG garages. I know some people will throw their arms in the air but if you can read the charging info and are capable of connecting a regulator then you are capable of charging a gas bottle. These adaptors are not something knocked up in a backstreet garage they are well made pieces of equiptment.
 

Snowbird

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Most of what you say is very true, BUT a 60cm dish wont work in Spain. Or the gas charging thingy is great at unmanned stations but Morrisons don't half kick up a fuss when you try to fill your Calor gas bottle on there forecourt. I know from a friend of a friend :winky:
 

vwalan

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i just went down the road to our local flo gas depot ,
72p a litre for auto gas . but picked up a 19kg bottle no deposit for 29.40
would have been 2736 for the same in auto gas . so didnt bother filling my bottle hardly worth it for 2quid . bet i could sell the empty for more than two quid anyway.
seems 47kg bottles are 52.50 .if you filled with autogas it would cost 67.68 .
shame cant get one in the truck and use it . hee hee .
think i shall just stay with flo gas when home here for bottles .
would take years to get back the price of the refillable expensive bottles if you ever can .

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bullrush

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Most of what you say is very true, BUT a 60cm dish wont work in Spain. Or the gas charging thingy is great at unmanned stations but Morrisons don't half kick up a fuss when you try to fill your Calor gas bottle on there forecourt. I know from a friend of a friend :winky:


Thanks Snowbird. I can only agree with your friend of a friend. Just do it discreatly There are no hard and fast rules in a motorhome on the continent just find a car park for the night and dont leave a mess. I spent 40 years working with oxygen at 300 bars so I feel capable of charging a propane bottle at 20 odd Bar. Oxygen is far more dangerous that Propane.
 

Geoffers

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How about some photo's of the E Type ? Bored with debates on satellites & gas bottles , E type much more interesting:thumb:

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bullrush

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Yep...you are right.
Its a 1964 3.8 roadster and had a ground up restoration 2 years ago. Its in A1 condition and only does about 500 miles a year. I took it out on Monday just to give it a run and it still would have gone straight up to 120 if the speed limit would allow :thumb: if you know what I mean. It does most of the shows in Hampshire
 
Jan 3, 2008
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Thanks Snowbird. I can only agree with your friend of a friend. Just do it discreatly There are no hard and fast rules in a motorhome on the continent just find a car park for the night and dont leave a mess. I spent 40 years working with oxygen at 300 bars so I feel capable of charging a propane bottle at 20 odd Bar. Oxygen is far more dangerous that Propane.[/QUOTE

I travel extensively in Europe including Germany, France and Italy and have done so for five months of the year for the last four years. I doubt I would try to convince the local property owners or police etc that there are no hard and fast rules as I have seen travellers, some with caravans and others with motorhomes being removed from several locations including car parks, both private and supermarket.

Certainly the law in France and Italy (and I am pretty sure in Germany) is that you may NOT park a motorhome anywhere you like for the night. I know that some "wild" and take a chance, but when there are so many aires etc why risk being woken up and told to move. Of course it is also safer on an aire particularly when there are other motorhomes nearby and you have access to facilities.

You may be confident and competent to refill an ordinary gas bottle with an adaptor but I don't want to be near anyone trying it. Not everyone has your ability and I suspect that the reason some people have been refused gas is because it is also illegal to refill ordinary bottles on garage forecourts and staff may mistake these for the properly installed permanently fixed bottles with remote fillers such as Gaslow which are legal.

I certainly do not wish to be rude or argumentative. However, I do think your advice that there are no rules in Europe, just find a car park, or that is is safe or even desirable for the general public to refill ordinary gas bottles themselves is both incorrect and dangerous and does nothing to assist the reputation of the motor homer. I would urge anyone reading this, particularly those new to motorhoming to totally ignore what you say about this.
 
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aba

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i just went down the road to our local flo gas depot ,
72p a litre for auto gas . but picked up a 19kg bottle no deposit for 29.40
would have been 2736 for the same in auto gas . so didnt bother filling my bottle hardly worth it for 2quid . bet i could sell the empty for more than two quid anyway.
seems 47kg bottles are 52.50 .if you filled with autogas it would cost 67.68 .
shame cant get one in the truck and use it . hee hee .
think i shall just stay with flo gas when home here for bottles .
would take years to get back the price of the refillable expensive bottles if you ever can .

it seems that the 6kg bottles are sold at an inflated price and if all you can get in is a 6kg then its still cheaper to have a re-fillable.

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vwalan

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the secret is dont buy a camper that only takes small bottles . or adapt the locker . the converters will stop building small lockers if folk stopped buying them ,its not a hard decision . just common sense , spending a fortune after you have bought the wrong thing doesnt make it right . just wastes more money .
far better to be able to take 19kg bottles .
 

JJ

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I will continue to ask this question because I still have not received an answer...

Can someone tell me why I am, or anyone standing near me is, in danger as I am fill an empty gas bottle in good condition using a non return valved filling adaptor calculating at the rate of two litres per kilo?

How much more dangerous is it to push and twist a button, deliberately releasing gas into the air and then setting fire to it with a spark to boil your kettle?

What about when I am pumping neat petrol into my car and it splashes back and spills all over the floor?

If you are not confident with filling gas bottles yourself DON'T DO IT... but don't suggest I being dangerous if I do. :Angry:

JJ :Cool:
 

JJ

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the secret is dont buy a camper that only takes small bottles . or adapt the locker . the converters will stop building small lockers if folk stopped buying them ,its not a hard decision .[HI] just common sense[/HI] , spending a fortune after you have bought the wrong thing doesnt make it right . just wastes more money .
[HI]far better to be able to take 19kg bottles[/HI] .

Your solution might suit you and me Alan but the common sense answer for the vast majority of motorhomers would not be to drive around with a 19 kilo gas cylinder in their weekend leisure vehicle... (plus another one for when the big one runs out.)

Pay loads?

Space needs?

Interior design?

JJ :Cool:

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Mar 29, 2011
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Even though I am used to it and I am told its quite normal evertime I fill the LPG tank and I remove the filler I jump when the millisecond of pressurised gas belts out, would be frightening to see the lot come out under pressure !!
 
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I will continue to ask this question because I still have not received an answer...

Can someone tell me why I am, or anyone standing near me is, in danger as I am fill an empty gas bottle in good condition using a non return valved filling adaptor calculating at the rate of two litres per kilo?

How much more dangerous is it to push and twist a button, deliberately releasing gas into the air and then setting fire to it with a spark to boil your kettle?

What about when I am pumping neat petrol into my car and it splashes back and spills all over the floor?

If you are not confident with filling gas bottles yourself DON'T DO IT... but don't suggest I being dangerous if I do. :Angry:

JJ :Cool:

Could it be that turning on your gas inside the camper to boil a kettle is releasing a relatively small amount of gas at low pressure in an environment that has no petrol vapours and little chance of some pillock walking past using a mobile or smoking.

Petrol station petrol is under little or no pressure when dispensed, but gas is at fairly high pressure when it goes into the tank and a disconnection of the adaptor would result in quite a lot of gas leaking before the filler is shut off. There are such things as cheapo rubbish adaptors on Ebay which may or may not have a decent non return valve. If a faulty valve is used and a large leak occurs or the bottle does not have automatic cut off at 80% and is overfilled would that not be dangerous.

As to your specific question on whether someone could tell you why it's dangerous I expect someone in the trade might answer you.
 
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Camdoon

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Who can explain or prove most things?

Are foreigners at more risk when driving in 50kmph speed limits rather than our slightly slower 30mph? Should we be setting our urban speed limits to 31mph or should they slow down to 48? Do cigarette companies yet accept there is a link between smoking tobacco and lung cancer?

How can you prove that a container is in good condition without thoroughly testing it?

If there are rules, they are normally geared to protect the untrained but knowing when you are competent or not can be blurred for many rules. In general I tend to obey the rules of any country out of politeness and for insurance purposes.
 

Geo

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I will continue to ask this question because I still have not received an answer...

Can someone tell me why I am, or anyone standing near me is, in danger as I am fill an empty gas bottle in good condition using a non return valved filling adaptor calculating at the rate of two litres per kilo?

How much more dangerous is it to push and twist a button, deliberately releasing gas into the air and then setting fire to it with a spark to boil your kettle?

What about when I am pumping neat petrol into my car and it splashes back and spills all over the floor?

If you are not confident with filling gas bottles yourself DON'T DO IT... but don't suggest I being dangerous if I do. :Angry:

JJ :Cool:

The fact you need to ask the question, Probably answers it:RollEyes:
So profound some of my statments I amaze myself:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 

Pikey Pete

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I will continue to ask this question because I still have not received an answer...

Can someone tell me why I am, or anyone standing near me is, in danger as I am fill an empty gas bottle in good condition using a non return valved filling adaptor calculating at the rate of two litres per kilo?

How much more dangerous is it to push and twist a button, deliberately releasing gas into the air and then setting fire to it with a spark to boil your kettle?

What about when I am pumping neat petrol into my car and it splashes back and spills all over the floor?

If you are not confident with filling gas bottles yourself DON'T DO IT... but don't suggest I being dangerous if I do. :Angry:

JJ :Cool:

One of the reasons that it is a dangerous fuel in the wrong hands, is because the Gas is compressed at 274:1 into liquid form. When that liquid hits the air it expands to 274 times it's liquid volume size, almost instantly. So a small spill becomes a heavier than air highly volatile gas pocket around your feet and around anyone stood near you. Because it is heavier than air it travels to the lowest point very quickly.
If you do over fill, and liquid gas finds it's way to your burners, you probably won't survive the explosion if you are in the vehicle when the liquid expands and the gas explodes.

Petrol isn't a compressed gas so it just evaporates when spilled with no expansion.

Just a thought.

Pete:Cool:

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Jan 3, 2008
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Thought

One of the reasons that it is a dangerous fuel in the wrong hands, is because the Gas is compressed at 274:1 into liquid form. When that liquid hits the air it expands to 274 times it's liquid volume size, almost instantly. So a small spill becomes a heavier than air highly volatile gas pocket around your feet and around anyone stood near you. Because it is heavier than air it travels to the lowest point very quickly.
If you do over fill, and liquid gas finds it's way to your burners, you probably won't survive the explosion if you are in the vehicle when the liquid expands and the gas explodes.

Petrol isn't a compressed gas so it just evaporates when spilled with no expansion.

Just a thought.

Pete:Cool:

Yes, and a nice explanation. Thank you
 

JJ

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Cripes...

I am very sorry that I am so poor at explaining myself.

It's very funny how stupid, silly things can get me going.

Not explaining myself well is one of them. It leads to me not being understood therefore I am driving myself crazy!

It is my fault.

I'll try again...

I drive my Wagon to an unmanned, self serve LPG pump which are found at petrol stations all over the place.

I shut the output taps on my GASLOW system. I connect the filler gun to the system's filling point on the side of the Wagon. I press the button on the pump and I fill the system. When full I release the gun.

Why is this dangerous? Is it dangerous? Do all the figures and details about lpg high pressure and rate of liquid to gas expansion make it dangerous? I don't think so. Why don't I think so? Because people at fuel stations all over the world do it all the time.

Now I move one and a half yards to the rear of the Wagon and connect the same gun to a good condition, empty Calor bottle though a correctly fitted andbeautifully engineered adaptor with a non return valve and press the button watching the gauge on the pump carefully until I have filled the bottle working on the safe margin of two litres per kilo. I disconnect, replace the gun in it's holder, shut the bottle tap, remove the adapter, refit the regulator and go and pay.

Why am I in danger in one situation but not the other?

Do you know what? No one, no one, no one has yet given me an understandable answer. :winky:

JJ :Cool:


 
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scotjimland

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Why am I in danger in one situation but not the other?

Do you know what? No one, no one, no one has yet given me an [HI]understandable answer[/HI].

JJ

JJ


May I point you toLink Removed... ?


» Highly Dangerous
Calor has become aware of increasing numbers of people using adaptors to fill LPG cylinders from autogas dispensers. This practice is not only unlawful but also highly dangerous as there is a strong probability of leaks occurring and cylinders being overfilled.

The filling of LPG cylinders is potentially an extremely hazardous activity, and safe filling requires appropriate expertise and training of operators, use of certified equipment, safe working procedures and a safe environment. Automotive LPG filling stations incorporate safety measures to ensure the safe refuelling of vehicles but they do not include all of the necessary safety elements required for filling LPG cylinders. Furthermore, commercial LPG is supplied in two forms - propane and butane - and filling a cylinder with the wrong type of LPG can lead to serious appliance malfunction and can cause safety devices to fail.

Members of the public who refill LPG cylinders using autogas refuelling equipment not only create a serious risk to their own safety and the safety of others, but are also contravening UK Health and Safety Regulations, Weights and Measures Regulations and Consumer Safety legislation. These Regulations impose important legal duties on the site operator to ensure the safety of both their employees and members of the public. In the event of an accident as a result of this type of activity, the site operator could be liable to prosecution. Calor is therefore urging autogas refuelling site operators to be vigilant and take appropriate action to prevent the unlawful and potentially dangerous re-filling cylinders in this manner.

Dr Terry Ritter, Calor’s Head of Health and Safety said “The public might think it is an easy and convenient way to top up a cylinder, but they are actually putting themselves and others at risk of serious injury or even death. Calor has taken successful court action against individuals for unauthorised filling and will continue to do so.”

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JJ

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May I point you toLink Removed... ?


» Highly Dangerous
Calor has become aware of increasing numbers of people using adaptors to fill LPG cylinders from autogas dispensers. This practice is not only[HI] unlawful [/HI]

Show me that law. Which one is that?

but also highly dangerous as there is a [HI]strong probability of leaks occurring[/HI]

Mamby pamby excutive speak. Bullsh*t. There is NOT a strong probability of leaks when I am doing it. :Angry:

and [HI]cylinders being overfilled.[/HI]

NO there isn't if you have a brain and can read

The filling of LPG cylinders is [HI]potentially[/HI]

OF COURSE IT IS! Just like crossing the road. THAT is why you take care when doing it. :Eeek:

an extremely hazardous activity, and safe filling requires [HI]appropriate expertise[/HI] and [HI]training of operators[/HI], use of [HI]certified equipment[/HI],

MORE company bullsh*t from a company who would lose millions if too many people fill their own bottles...

safe working procedures and a safe environment. Automotive LPG filling stations incorporate safety measures to ensure the safe refuelling of vehicles but they do not include all of the necessary safety elements required for filling LPG cylinders. Furthermore, commercial LPG is supplied in two forms - propane and butane - and filling a cylinder with the wrong type of LPG can lead to serious appliance malfunction and can cause safety devices to fail.

Members of the public who refill LPG cylinders using autogas refuelling equipment not only create a ]serious risk to their own safety and the safety of others, but are also contravening UK Health and Safety Regulations, Weights and Measures Regulations and Consumer Safety legislation. These Regulations impose important legal duties on the site operator to ensure the safety of both their employees and members of the public. In the event of an accident as a result of this type of activity, the site operator could be liable to prosecution. Calor is therefore urging autogas refuelling site operators to be vigilant and take appropriate action to prevent the unlawful and potentially dangerous re-filling cylinders in this manner.

Dr Terry Ritter, Calor’s Head of Health and Safety said [HI]“The public might think it is an easy and convenient way to top up a cylinder, but they are actually putting themselves and others at risk of serious injury or even death[/HI]. Calor has taken successful court action against individuals for unauthorised filling and will continue to do so.”

More self interest filled "political speak" Facts and Figures please?







Please, please, please, please Funsters... If you have a merest, fleeting, slightest, itsy bitsy concern about filling your own bottles DO NOT DO IT.

I am at danger of stepping outside and having a piece of broken up satellite fall on me... :Eeek:

JJ :Cool:
 

scotjimland

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More self interest filled "political speak" Facts and Figures please?



JJ :Cool:

Since I didn't write the article JJ, have no connection or shares in the company or a vested interest.... may I suggest you email Calor for answers ?

You asked for regulations.. I only post to inform.. not preach..

you and many others, myself included, have safely filled bottles.. but it's better to be informed and aware of the risks., both legal and filling dangers.. Sticking our heads in the sand or berating Calor won't change that.


This from UKLPG ... again, mostly advice but it is covered under the Use of Transportable Pressure Equipment Regulations 2009

FILLING OF USER OWNED, PORTABLE REFILLABLE LPG
CYLINDERS AT AUTOGAS REFUELLING SITES


It is the advice from UKLPG that user owned, portable LPG cylinders should not be
refilled at self service autogas refuelling sites.

Containers which are attached to a vehicle for heating or cooking (on camper vans or
similar) present similar risks on filling to those for propulsion purposes and may be
permitted to be re-filled at autogas refuelling sites provided they:
 are not removed for refilling; and
 are secured in a suitable enclosure; and
 are fitted with an internal device to physically prevent filling beyond 80%; and
 are connected to a [HI]fixed filling connector which is not part of the container[/HI].


UK Health and Safety Regulations, made under the Health and Safety at Work Act,
including the:
 Dangerous Substances and Explosive Atmospheres Regulations
 Carriage of Dangerous Goods and Use of Transportable Pressure Equipment
Regulations
 Management of Health and Safety at Work Regulations
 Provision and Use of Work Equipment Regulations
 Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order

impose significant duties on the site operator to ensure safety. Autogas refuelling sites
are places of work and their personnel have responsibility for safety to everyone on the
site, including the general public. They authorise the flow of gas from the dispenser and
they may be considered, in law, to be the filler.

Safe filling of LPG cylinders requires appropriate expertise and/or equipment. Staff at
self fill autogas refuelling sites cannot fulfil statutory obligations, as they have neither.

Were there to be any accident the site operator could be liable to prosecution.

This view has been confirmed in the Minutes of the HSE Petroleum Enforcement Liaison
Group meeting of 7th July 2005, which states “PLAs should consider issuing a prohibition
notice if their inspectors discover a site which allows members of the public to refill gas
cylinders”
.

Should a site decide to fill user owned, portable LPG cylinders they need to provide
trained personnel to carry out the filling.
 
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