Motorhomes, 2 foreign holidays per anum, & carbon footprints... (1 Viewer)

[Sneaky Blinder]

We've recently retired early, hopefully early enough, to enjoy a few years of travelling and exploring.

We used to take 2 foreign holdays every year, and our beloved dog was deposited into an excellent, but expensive, pet hotel.

We've now taken the plunge, and spent a large sum of money on a portable, mobile, comfortable hotel suite that's dog friendly.

There is so much of this beautiful island, and Ireland, that neither my partner nor I have visited, it really is a disgrace on our doorstep.

So, my point ?

Just consider the following:

The Earth is a gift for all of us, especially future generations, and should be cherished and protected.

It turns out planes are even worse for the climate than we thought

Aeroplane contrails have a larger warming effect than all the CO2 emitted by planes that has accumulated in the atmosphere since the first ever flight

www.newscientist.com

Climate change is real, not a myth, and we can all see it it, if we open our eyes.

Climate Change Evidence: How Do We Know?

The rate of change since the mid-20th century is unprecedented over millennia.

climate.nasa.gov

We all have a responsibility to curb our behaviour, to help future generations, despite the misgivings, oversights, or wrong judgements, of our forefathers.

The motorhome market is niche, and as a new potential buyer, you hold all of the cards.

New sales, in 2018, were just less than 15,000. EV & Hydrid car sales were just less than 10,000, and total new car regs were a wee bit less than 150,000.

Caravan and motorhome numbers on Britain's roads set to SOAR

THE number of caravans and motorhomes clogging up Britain's roads is set to soar by more than 50,000 in the next five years, new figures claim.

www.express.co.uk

But again, like many tabloibs striving for sales, they never put things into context.

These are official, reliable figures...

Q1) How many vehicles are there in Great Britain?

A1) At the end of June 2019, there were 38.7 million vehicles licensed for use on the roads in Great Britain.

Cars make up the majority of licensed vehicles. There were 31.8 million cars (82.3 per cent), 4.1 million LGVs (10.6 per cent), 0.51 million HGVs (1.3 per cent), 1.3 million motorcycles (3.4 per cent), 0.15 million buses & coaches (0.4 per cent) and 0.76 million other vehicles (2.0 per cent) licensed at the end of June 2019.

All body types apart from buses & coaches saw an increase in overall registered vehicles since the end of June 2018. The largest percentage increase was for LGVs at 3.1 per cent, followed by cars at 1.1 per cent, and motorcycles at 0.9 per cent and HGVs at 0.8 per cent. Buses & coaches fell by 2.3 per cent, which reflects the decline in new registrations.

The total number of licensed vehicles has increased in all but one year (1992) since the end of the Second World War. From 1997 to 2007, the annual growth in licensed vehicles averaged 670 thousand per year, although from the mid-2000s it begun to slow somewhat. Following the recession of 2008-9, growth slowed further but did not stop, averaging 170 thousand per year between 2007 and 2012. Since 2012, the average growth has been 610 thousand per year, but this growth has slowed in recent years with the reduction of new registrations.

Source: Vehicle Licensing Statistics: April to June 2019

Historical details about the number of licensed vehicles can be viewed in table VEH0101.


I have no axe to grind, I am not affilliated to any club, I have no children, nor grandchildren to bequeath to.

An animal charity will benefit from that.

Point is, we're still separating our household waste, worrying about unnecessary packaging, thinking about what we're purchasing, recycling, ...and we've bought our first motorhome !

 

[peterc10]

No I don't! I was trying to point out that a lot of air travel isn't necessary. Visiting family excepted of course.

Suggest you read your original post #25 again. That is not what you said. You were complaining about anybody wanting to fly even once a year.

IMHO anybody driving a motorhome touring around Europe is hardly in the best position to complain about people flying on unnecessary journeys, which uses a lot less carbon fuel per passenger mile.

 

[Ivory55]

So, I just reread your post, ( it’s early). We were in Cambridge visiting my Daughter when the protests took place, so we walked to the nearest one.
Would you rather I flew back to France to take part in one there then?

I would rather you didn’t poke your nose in full stop and protest where you live not come to the uk and do it. If you thought that the uk was so wonderful you will still be, and don’t give it the old tosh about it’s for your family. You have left them here so can not be that worried about them. I everyone stuck to their own back yard it would be a lot better place.

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[tonyidle]

Suggest you read your original post #25 again. That is not what you said. You were complaining about anybody wanting to fly even once a year.

IMHO anybody driving a motorhome touring around Europe is hardly in the best position to complain about people flying on unnecessary journeys, which uses a lot less carbon fuel per passenger mile.

The emphasis was on everyone. It was a throwaway comment not intended to mean anyone.

 

[Wildbill]

protester in London who is cleaning up their mess

 

[Allanm]

I would rather you didn’t poke your nose in full stop and protest where you live not come to the uk and do it. If you thought that the uk was so wonderful you will still be, and don’t give it the old tosh about it’s for your family. You have left them here so can not be that worried about them. I everyone stuck to their own back yard it would be a lot better place.

What an incredibly rude reply and one with racist overtones.

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[Allanm]

protester in London who is cleaning up their mess

The Council, the same people who cleared 140 tonnes of rubbish left after the Royal wedding in 2011 and the 120,000 bags of rubbish cleared up and collected in 2018 after Prince Harry’s wedding.

 

[Potty]

I think facebook posts like the one you quoted to me give the impression of the poster of it being an old git (like the ones that Harry Enfield used to portray)who wants to keep on polluting the planet and doesn't give a toss about future generations. If they think all the things they mention were so good why would they complain about people campaigning to help the environment for the future?. This does apply to the person who wrote the original post not you but what does supporting the post do thats any use?

Sorry, can’t agree! I belong to the generation referred to in that post. I do object to being blamed for pollution by younger generations. We do everything we can not to pollute or to use up scarce resources. We have been recycling paper for over 40 years, always reused plastic shopping bags, recycle everything we can. I have stopped using shower gels in plastic bottles using soap instead, which comes in a recyclable wrapper. Haven’t flown for 30 years, use the car a couple of times a week, turn off unwanted lights, buy British food as much as possible, don’t buy any that has been flown in.

In our small area there are 9 properties, 5 occupied by over 70s, 1 by a 50 year old and 3 by 20/30 year olds. All the over 50s recycle. Of the younger 3, none use their recycling boxes, drive to friends who live in the village. They have windows wide open all day, all year no matter what the weather, sometimes have nearly all the lights on, some left on all night. No one in our village lives more than 1mile from the school but the majority of children are driven to and from school. I walked a mile to the bus stop.

So, maybe I am an old git but I do care about the future of our planet, I have 5 grandchildren and I find it very offensive that anyone should suggest that my past and present lifestyle is ruining their future. Protecting their future is the responsibility of everyone and everyone needs to look at their lifestyles and see what changes they can make. As Tesco tells us “every little helps”.

To answer your final question, maybe showing younger people how things used to be done will show them that it is their behaviour that is causing some of the problems and to stop blaming everyone else.

 

[Jim]

I would rather you didn’t poke your nose in full stop and protest where you live not come to the uk and do it. If you thought that the uk was so wonderful you will still be, and don’t give it the old tosh about it’s for your family. You have left them here so can not be that worried about them. I everyone stuck to their own back yard it would be a lot better place.

Leave it out please. There is no reason to get personal like that.

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[Jonno1103]

As householders we can recycle as much as we desire and be strict about which bin we place our rubbish. What lets the system down is that not even half of it is recycled or incinerated for waste to energy.

Only 10% of the waste produced in the UK is household and less than half of it is recycled.
80% of the rubbish produced in the UK is industrial and commercial.

Many companies build waste to energy incinerators designed for household use and the multi stage filters mean that the exhaust gasses are cleaner than what you breath in walking around a supermarket... Yes they are currently aesthetically awful to look at but the tech is out there for us to burn all our own rubbish creating our own domestic power in conjunction with wind and solar.

Far fetched? Not so much, for the first 6 months of 2019 the UK produced more than half of it's generated power needs from renewables not fossil fuels. Let's not forget either that we are one of the very few countries which no longer has oil or coal fired power stations... you can't say that about our European neighbours.

Again there are those who say burning rubbish causes even more pollution and more CO2... really?

How about the pollution produced by recycling plastic or glass or producing Biofuel which produces more CO2 than fossil fuels when you take into account the deforested land masses used to grow the stuff in the first place.

Humans equal pollution, always have done and always will. The more we reproduce the more we pollute as the more we'll consume.

Anyway, back to motorhomes as afterall we're all Funsters and enjoy our four wheeled friends...

Many household toilets in Norway are incinerators which leads to far less water
consumption and far less energy used and the byproduct is very good for those who enjoy growing their veg. the company also produce them for motorhomes and narrowboats.

Cinderella Incineration Toilets

Cinderella Incineration Toilets

www.cinderellaeco.com

 

[The Wino]

Sorry, can’t agree! I belong to the generation referred to in that post. I do object to being blamed for pollution by younger generations. We do everything we can not to pollute or to use up scarce resources. We have been recycling paper for over 40 years, always reused plastic shopping bags, recycle everything we can. I have stopped using shower gels in plastic bottles using soap instead, which comes in a recyclable wrapper. Haven’t flown for 30 years, use the car a couple of times a week, turn off unwanted lights, buy British food as much as possible, don’t buy any that has been flown in.

In our small area there are 9 properties, 5 occupied by over 70s, 1 by a 50 year old and 3 by 20/30 year olds. All the over 50s recycle. Of the younger 3, none use their recycling boxes, drive to friends who live in the village. They have windows wide open all day, all year no matter what the weather, sometimes have nearly all the lights on, some left on all night. No one in our village lives more than 1mile from the school but the majority of children are driven to and from school. I walked a mile to the bus stop.

So, maybe I am an old git but I do care about the future of our planet, I have 5 grandchildren and I find it very offensive that anyone should suggest that my past and present lifestyle is ruining their future. Protecting their future is the responsibility of everyone and everyone needs to look at their lifestyles and see what changes they can make. As Tesco tells us “every little helps”.

To answer your final question, maybe showing younger people how things used to be done will show them that it is their behaviour that is causing some of the problems and to stop blaming everyone else.

I suspect if you post a link ending in "cheeky little shits" it is unlikely to modify anyones behaviour!!!!!. Your demographic of recycling indicates you probably have people living near you who could do with being influenced by the climate change lobby if the person whose post you quoted is really interested in recycling uptake and reducing peoples carbon footprint don't you think a post supporting climate change but still pointing out the ways previous generations had a lower impact might have worked better. The post to me does not help anything if older people are recycling more great shout it out but not in a grumpy old git post!

 

[Ivory55]

Personally I don’t

What an incredibly rude reply and one with racist overtones.

personally I don’t see it as racist but if you do I apologise. But still believe people should support the country they live in not one they don’t.

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[The Wino]

Suggest you read your original post #25 again. That is not what you said. You were complaining about anybody wanting to fly even once a year.

IMHO anybody driving a motorhome touring around Europe is hardly in the best position to complain about people flying on unnecessary journeys, which uses a lot less carbon fuel per passenger mile.

How many motorhomes cover the distance of most flights though and of course there is much lower efficiency in buisness class seating and on very long haul low passenger number flights. Also most of the aircraft figures are mileage per passenger if there are 2 people in a motorhome or maybe 4 the amount used per passenger mile become nearer or in the case of buisness class lower. If there was enough will to reduce emissions we would be changing a lot more to high speed rail and tuboprops

 

[Allanm]

Personally I don’t

personally I don’t see it as racist but if you do I apologise. But still believe people should support the country they live in not one they don’t.

Thankyou, however, climate change does not affect a single country, is a worldwide thing, I’m supporting more than just one country. We were already in Cambridge to babysit my Daughters dog for two weeks and walked to the event there to show support.

 

[The Wino]

Thankyou, however, climate change does not affect a single country, is a worldwide thing, I’m supporting more than just one country. We were already in Cambridge to babysit my Daughters dog for two weeks and walked to the event there to show support.

I think you are right the people just thinking about their own country are often looking at their own countries financial interests above the planet as a whole and like Trump are often in denial. If everyone looks at their own countries emissions none are a majority so its all too easy to say we may as well carry on polluting while everyone else does (and as a lot will not be around to worry about it they all too often are just interested in what they can grab now)

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[peterc10]

How many motorhomes cover the distance of most flights though and of course there is much lower efficiency in buisness class seating and on very long haul low passenger number flights. Also most of the aircraft figures are mileage per passenger if there are 2 people in a motorhome or maybe 4 the amount used per passenger mile become nearer or in the case of buisness class lower. If there was enough will to reduce emissions we would be changing a lot more to high speed rail and tuboprops

Just a lighthearted look at the statistics.

Two of us go twice a year on long motorhome trips (6 weeks +) to Europe and usually cover from 3,000 to 4,000 miles per trip at 24mpg (as measured by me). That averages 0.095 litres per person per mile

We fly to Newark, which is about the same distance as NY, so lets say 3,500 miles each way, so 7,000 miles per person. The flights are always full. We travel out on a 787 and back on a 777. The 777 averages at worse about 3.11l per person per 100km, according to this website which is about 0.05 litres per person per mile. The 787 is more efficient (which is why a lot of airlines are buying them) and averages at worse about 2.49l per person per 100km, which is about 0.04 litres per mile. These are both wide bodied medium/long haul jets and are usually configured for 3 classes (economy premium economy and business) or even 4 classes (adding First).

So per person per mile our motorhome trips use about twice as much carbon fuel as us flying out to the USA. Which is good enough justification for us going over twice this year. I am only joking - we were going to anyway.

Yes we all need to do more for the environment. But motorhomers have to realise that their hobby is part of the "problem", as much as what "the others" do. And those on this website that truly support the protests in London need to ask themselves if they should do their bit and give up the motorhome and fly on their holidays. Or be even more green and not go away at all and instead spend their time growing their own vegetables in the garden.

After all people who live in glass houses should not throw stones, but instead should grow things in them.

 

[The Wino]

Just a lighthearted look at the statistics.

Two of us go twice a year on long motorhome trips (6 weeks +) to Europe and usually cover from 3,000 to 4,000 miles per trip at 24mpg (as measured by me). That averages 0.095 litres per person per mile

We fly to Newark, which is about the same distance as NY, so lets say 3,500 miles each way, so 7,000 miles per person. The flights are always full. We travel out on a 787 and back on a 777. The 777 averages at worse about 3.11l per person per 100km, according to this website which is about 0.05 litres per person per mile. The 787 is more efficient (which is why a lot of airlines are buying them) and averages at worse about 2.49l per person per 100km, which is about 0.04 litres per mile. These are both wide bodied medium/long haul jets and are usually configured for 3 classes (economy premium economy and business) or even 4 classes (adding First).

So per person per mile our motorhome trips use about twice as much carbon fuel as us flying out to the USA. Which is good enough justification for us going over twice this year. I am only joking - we were going to anyway.

Yes we all need to do more for the environment. But motorhomers have to realise that their hobby is part of the "problem", as much as what "the others" do. And those on this website that truly support the protests in London need to ask themselves if they should do their bit and give up the motorhome and fly on their holidays. Or be even more green and not go away at all and instead spend their time growing their own vegetables in the garden.

After all people who live in glass houses should not throw stones, but instead should grow things in them.

Yes I looked at similar sums but it only is less if you then do not travel at all for the time you are in the US (assuming when you are in the mh you do not use other forms of travel either) theres also the contrail theory that they cause more warming than just the fuel burn .
The calculations are difficult given the number of different units of measurement . I make the mh trip at say 4000m 380l per person the flying at an average of 80 mpg per person 87usg or 302l so not as much difference as yours I think the twice as much carbon only applies if the distances are the same (but could be wrong!!!!!!!!). Of course for a couple who bimble in a m/h the trip will be a lot less carbon than the flights although of course the flights could be a lot shorter too.