Motorhome tyres. An idea. (1 Viewer)

Bartyfixedit

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I have an X 250 PVC which I have converted myself.

At the moment it has standard van tyres which I have already found rather poor on grass. I also do not have a spare.

Obviously in an ideal world with an unlimited budget I would go out and buy four winter tyres and four motorhome tyres. My budget is not unlimited and so I have an idea which I thought I would run past you fellows.

If I start off and buy two good quality four season tyres and put them on the front then that will get me through this summer. Later this year I can then buy two proper winter tyres and put them on the back. Not ideal, but it would get me through next winter as I'm not planning on going anywhere too cold. When funds permit I can then buy another two full winter tyres.

So my final situation would be that I would run winter tyres on the back all year and alternate winter and all season tyres at the front according to time of year.

I know that a lot of you run winter tyres all year but I'm planning on towing a car on a trailer. I think towing might well be asking too much of winter tyres in the summer on the front drive wheels, particularly since the van has the 3 L engine.

Obviously to do this I would have to buy two more wheels, but that would then mean that one of those could be the spare and I would only have to store one road wheel at home.

What do you all think?

Cheers,

David
 

Lenny HB

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I know you should not mix winter tyres but not sure about 4 season tyres, but whatever you you do the tyres with the highest grip for safety reasons should be on the rear. It would be very bad practice if not dangerous to fit 4 season tyres to the front with standard tyres on the rear.

If you go to Italy they have now brought in laws banning winter tyres in the summer in some areas with very heavy fines.
 
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DP+JAY

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I only ever fit all season tyres, that way you don't have to think about whether or not you've got the rìght ones on. Buy two for the front! Then later buy two more.
 

DP+JAY

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I know you should not mix winter tyres but not sure about 4 season tyres, but whatever you you do the tyres with the highest grip for safety reasons should be on the rear. It would be very bad practice if not dangerous to fit 4 season tyres to the front with standard tyres on the rear.

If you go to Italy they have now brought in laws banning winter tyres in the summer in some areas with very heavy fines.
Why, when It's front wheel drive? The fronts do nearly all the work.
 
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I suggest you contact member Brianjojosh who runs his own tyre business, what he does not know could be written on a pin head and he does not bite!

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Lenny HB

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I only ever fit all season tyres, that way you don't have to think about whether or not you've got the rìght ones on. Buy two for the front! Then later buy two more.
Don't do it is dangerous, new tyres when only changing two should always go on the rear.
 

Lenny HB

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Why, when It's front wheel drive? The fronts do nearly all the work.
It is all to do with grip and breakaway, there are a few videos on you tube showing what happens it you fit the better tyres to the front it's quite an eye opener.

Quote from Mitchelin tyre safety advice:

New tyres to the REAR:
When replacing just two tyres, Michelin recommends that the new or least
worn tyres are fitted to the rear axle for improved vehicle control and safety.
This advice applies to front and rear wheel drive vehicles fitted with the same
tyre sizes front and rear. Ensure that the tyre inflation pressures are readjusted
to comply with the vehicle manufacturer’s recommendations.
 

DP+JAY

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Don't do it is dangerous, new tyres when only changing two should always go on the rear.
Rubbish, they should go on the front.
The fronts brake and steer and drive on a FWD, why would you want them on the back?

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DP+JAY

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Ive been fitting my new tyres to the front for 45 years without a problem and shall continue to do so until someone proves it's illegal.
 

Lenny HB

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Rubbish, they should go on the front.
The fronts brake and steer and drive on a FWD, why would you want them on the back?
Just look up tyre safety and advice and you will see why. Far safer on the rear down right dangerous on the front. As for fitting for fitting a high grip 4 season tyre to the front with standard tyre on rear a recipe for disaster.
 
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Lenny HB

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Ive been fitting my new tyres to the front for 45 years without a problem and shall continue to do so until someone proves it's illegal.
It may not be illegal but it is far safer to fit new tyres on the rear.


 
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Bartyfixedit

Bartyfixedit

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Thanks for the input so far. I am aware of the issue with putting new tyres on the back and if I was talking about our family car I would agree. I would also agree for an unconverted van where the rear axle loading can vary quite a lot. On my PVC the axle loading is pretty well equal front to rear.

In this case I'm talking about 3800 kg of van with tyre pressures of 65 and 73 psi. The ground pressure on this vehicle is so much higher and the likely speeds so much lower than a family car that aquaplaning is far less likely to occur. The tyre industry is making recommendations that are general, we have to decide what compromises we're going to make and how much they will affect us. If my current tyres which are to be left on the back were below 50% tread depth then I wouldn't consider it, in fact the two I would leave on there are almost new.

Lenny, thanks to the information about Italy, I didn't know that. I shall scrap the idea of using winter tyres then and stick to four season.

I will have a word with my local tyre fitter, who I've dealt with for years, to check whether or not it is legal to mix two four season tyres with two standard.

Now to decide which are the best four season tyres. Anyone got any particular recommendations? Size is 215/75 R16 116/114R
I can see I'm going to have to be looking in the archives:D

Thanks all,

David.
 
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Bartyfixedit

Bartyfixedit

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I suggest you contact member Brianjojosh who runs his own tyre business, what he does not know could be written on a pin head and he does not bite!
thanks for that Phil, I'll chat to my local bloke first, I never feel comfortable taking the advice from one person and then buying the item elsewhere. Call me old-fashioned:cool:

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Lenny HB

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To some extent I agree with what you say David, but my concerns would be when driving in snow. With the weight of a Motorhome with a large portion of the weight on the rear, if it breaks away you aren't going to stop it. For the sake of a couple of hundred quids worth of tyres you are risking thousands of pounds worth of van, also their are the insurance implications, if they have a get out from a claim they will use it.
 
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Bartyfixedit

Bartyfixedit

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To some extent I agree with what you say David, but my concerns would be when driving in snow. With the weight of a Motorhome with a large portion of the weight on the rear, if it breaks away you aren't going to stop it. For the sake of a couple of hundred quids worth of tyres you are risking thousands of pounds worth of van, also their are the insurance implications, if they have a get out from a claim they will use it.[/QUOTE

Have no fear Lenny, I shall have all four as four seasons before I risk snow.
 

Moodybrook

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Uk Tyre businesses have some explaining to do as I have averaged 35,000 miles a year for 40 years. Replacing fronts at anywhere from 10,000 miles to 15,000 miles. Rears at about 25,000 miles. Quite a few tyres ?

Now That information to swap the rears to the front and put the news on the back has never been even hinted at and that is across many fitters from Plymouth to Aberdeen. NOT ONCE !! :(

I watched the video and I would like more information eg. just how bad were the rears. :unsure:
 

Lenny HB

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Uk Tyre businesses have some explaining to do as I have averaged 35,000 miles a year for 40 years. Replacing fronts at anywhere from 10,000 miles to 15,000 miles. Rears at about 25,000 miles. Quite a few tyres ?

Now That information to swap the rears to the front and put the news on the back has never been even hinted at and that is across many fitters from Plymouth to Aberdeen. NOT ONCE !! :(

I watched the video and I would like more information eg. just how bad were the rears. :unsure:
One of our local tyre suppliers who specialise in performance tyres have a large Michelin poster on the wall in the customer waiting area explaining that new tyres should be fitted to the rear when only fitting two tyres.
 
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How is it that on many, many new cars that have different size tyres front to rear this is impossible? BMW, Bentley, Jaguar; Merc, BMW, to name just a few performance cars that seem to shirk this idea. agreed not every model has different sizes but many of the performance models do.

also, dont recall any of our HGV's doing this at ANY stage and they are far more prone to back end wiggle than our motorhomes.

not saying that the info is not posted and available as you indicate just the validity of the information.
 
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I think we need to remember that a lot has changed since most of us started driving. What most people do sitting in their cars these days would hardly have qualified as deserving the expression of skill implied in the term 'driving' 45 years ago.

When cars had crude suspension, cross-ply tyres, rear wheel drive & roads were empty, driving had a rather different meaning. It required a degree of skill & rewarded us with a lot of fun. Finding the limit of adhesion was something that happened once a journey, not once a lifetime. The narrator in the second video Lenny posted said that the driver would notice & react to the front sliding, but wouldn't notice, or wouldn't be able to control the back sliding. He might be right about someone who has only driven a modern car in modern traffic conditions, but the slightest twitch from the rear & I'm instinctively correcting by turning into the slide to recover. Like riding a bike, some things never leave you.

Modern vehicles have a much higher grip level before starting to slide. When they do slide, the breakaway is more sudden & less controllable than of old. For the majority of drivers, it will be the only time they have ever experienced it & they won't know what to do. Understeer is frequently self-limiting if the driver doesn't react, while oversteer will almost always get worse without the correct reaction.

So it does make sense that the general advice should be to prioritise stability over ultimate grip. Over the population as a whole, less people will get hurt. What is correct for the average may not be correct for individual vehicle types or drivers.
 

DP+JAY

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also, dont recall any of our HGV's doing this at ANY stage and they are far more prone to back end wiggle than our motorhomes.

When I drove waggons & coaches we had new tyres on the front & the part worn/re-cut or remoulds on the rear.
 
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It is all to do with grip and breakaway, there are a few videos on you tube showing what happens it you fit the better tyres to the front it's quite an eye opener.

Quote from Mitchelin tyre safety advice:

New tyres to the REAR:
When replacing just two tyres, Michelin recommends that the new or least
worn tyres are fitted to the rear axle for improved vehicle control and safety.
This advice applies to front and rear wheel drive vehicles fitted with the same
tyre sizes front and rear. Ensure that the tyre inflation pressures are readjusted
to comply with the vehicle manufacturer’s recommendations.

There is ample information on the internet (Just ask mr Google) to support the Michelin advice. I think I would go along with that rather than the opinion of someone on a forum.

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Minxy

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Oh b*gger! We've just had 2 new wheels and tyres put on the front of our camper (we bought them from Autotrail and our local garage fitted them) ... our rear tyres still have quite a lot of tread on them hence why the new ones went on the front as they were more worn and being the drive wheels we didn't want to risk spin etc.

But now ... did we do the right thing or not ....????? We're off to Spain for 6 weeks on Tuesday so really need to get this right in case we hit some bad weather!

Help! What should we do!
 

DP+JAY

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OK , so if fitting new tyres to the rear is correct? at what point do you swap your rear tyres to the front.
Most campers are front wheel drive so the front tyres wear 2 to 3 times faster on the front?

If I fit 4 new tyres at the same time & leave them in situ so the fronts wear out & replace them leaving the "old" ones on the rear, the chances are the rears will die of old age LONG before they wear out.
Bottom line is I'm driving a FWD camper (and cars), sensibly(not like I stole it) & I'm not made of money.
I'll do what I can to maximise tye life, & get the best I can from them.
BTW I'vehad tyres fail on the front & the rear over the years & a rear failure is much easier to control than the front,( yes, especially on a motorbike).
You all do what you like, I'll do what I know.
 

DBK

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Ive been fitting my new tyres to the front for 45 years without a problem and shall continue to do so until someone proves it's illegal.
I guess you drive at sensible speeds round corners. The advice about having the best tyres on the rear is to stop the rear breaking away if you go round a corner too fast, especially in the wet. You will get understeer of course but that is considered generally safer. You hit things head on rather than sideways!

If you drive everywhere gently you won't notice the difference, as you haven't.
 

DP+JAY

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I guess you drive at sensible speeds round corners. The advice about having the best tyres on the rear is to stop the rear breaking away if you go round a corner too fast, especially in the wet. You will get understeer of course but that is considered generally safer. You hit things head on rather than sideways!

If you drive everywhere gently you won't notice the difference, as you haven't.

Correction- when the rear breaks away that's overstear & I can usually control it.
When the front breaks away that's understeer & you're out of control.

Ask anyone who has had front &rear tyre failures (in simillar conditions, at high speed)which is easier to handle
 
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DBK

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Correction- when the rear breaks away that's overstear & I can usually control it.
When the front breaks away that's understeer & you're out of control.

Ask anyone who has had front &rear tyre failures (in simillar conditions, at high speed)which is easier to handle
Glad you agree! Having the "worst" tyres on the front will tend to give understeer instead of oversteer. That's what is behind the Michelin advice quoted above.

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