Motorhome Toilet Emptied On Beach. (1 Viewer)

[Minxy]

I can't believe people are actually falling out about how a car park is made!!!

Car parks ARE built to different specifications, it depends on the ground used, the depth and type of foundation used and the top surface. Block paved ones are generally only meant for lighter vehicles, tarmac covered ones can vary depending on their intended usage, we had a tarmac drive at one property and it wouldn't take a MH ... no way! Councils are NOT gonna make car parks more 'heavy duty' than they need to so assuming that most tarmac ones can take the load of larger vehicles parking is IMV wrong ... if you DID take your MH onto a tarmac one that said 'no vehicles over 1500kg' and you damage it would you pay to have it fixed or quickly scuttle away hoping no-one saw you ... ?

 

[Silver-Fox]

@Minxy Girl the devil is in the detail and judgements or opinion informed there in

I’ve run a job that involed traffic calming that required speed humps constructed in block paving. Said humps needed to slow the passing of 30 tonne trucks

Just saying like

I don’t think I’m arguing, am I?

 

[Ingwe]

Maybe to reconcile the original subject of the post with the esoteric debate about how to build car parks, perhaps I could suggest that the base of the car park could be made with the compressed contents of toilet cassettes?

Ok, I'll get my coat.....

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[Minxy]

@Minxy Girl the devil is in the detail and judgements or opinion informed there in

I’ve run a job that involed traffic calming that required speed humps constructed in block paving. Said humps needed to slow the passing of 30 tonne trucks

Just saying like

I don’t think I’m arguing, am I?

Arguing? No ... just being a bit pedantic ...

 

[Silver-Fox]

Arguing? No ... just being a bit pedantic ...

That’s me and dare I say similar to yourself

 

[Silver-Fox]

Maybe to reconcile the original subject of the post with the esoteric debate about how to build car parks, perhaps I could suggest that the base of the car park could be made with the compressed contents of toilet cassettes?

Ok, I'll get my coat.....

May as well use it, they spread enoughbof it on the crop fields

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[Ingwe]

So, my idea stinks?

 

[Silver-Fox]

So, my idea stinks?

Literally yes

 

[Ingwe]

All those years in the law wasted......

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[vwalan]

May as well use it, they spread enoughbof it on the crop fields

off subject but some may find this interesting ,,,http://adlib.everysite.co.uk/adlib/defra/content.aspx?id=000HK277ZW.0A20TNXZPHQDSS.

 

[GJH]

Any chance you can post up pictures of the drawings you have been shown or the specs for the car parks you have enquirer about.
Just as an interest

There's nowt like being clever - and that's ............................

 

[Bobby22]

I am not familiar with the beach involved but how about this for a suggestion.
To get the local people onside and derail any anti motorhome protests.

I suggest MotorFun members could arrange a beach clean-up day/rally.

We use every social media platform we can to advertise the fact, we tell local radio and local newspapers that we are going to do it.

Now maybe we can roll it out anywhere that us FLT use and get ourselves a good name for a change.

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[Silver-Fox]

There's nowt like being clever - and that's ............................

Ehh?

Just a simple question, I presume you don’t have the relevant documents.
I was just interested.
A simple I don’t have any would have sufficed

 

[Silver-Fox]

There's nowt like being clever - and that's ............................

Ehh?

 

[GJH]

Ehh?

Just a simple question, I presume you don’t have the relevant documents.
I was just interested.
A simple I don’t have any would have sufficed

I'm sure you know as well as I that one doesn't need engineering documents to believe what somebody says, especially when they are complying with FoI requirements.

EDIT - There have been so many fatuous posts on this subject and it appeared to be another such. If that is not the case I apologise.

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[Silver-Fox]

I'm sure you know as well as I that one doesn't need engineering documents to believe what somebody says, especially when they are complying with FoI requirements.

EDIT - There have been so many fatuous posts on this subject and it appeared to be another such. If that is not the case I apologise.

It was a genuine question if you had drawings or indeed a spec on various car parks you had enquiried or discussed with any LA.

Having been in the building trade for a good few years, both domestic and commercial.
You never turn a stone without a drawing and a spec.
You couldn’t price the job either. Also no LA as far as I know has the man power to undertake even a basic car park.

 

[GJH]

It was a genuine question if you had drawings or indeed a spec on various car parks you had enquiried or discussed with any LA.

Having been in the building trade for a good few years, both domestic and commercial.
You never turn a stone without a drawing and a spec.
You couldn’t price the job either. Also no LA as far as I know has the man power to undertake even a basic car park.

I agree that drawings and specs are necessary for the job but that is a different matter. It isn't necessary, for the purposes of a FoI response, to provide that amount of detail.

 

[Silver-Fox]

I agree that drawings and specs are necessary for the job but that is a different matter. It isn't necessary, for the purposes of a FoI response, to provide that amount of detail.

That may be so.
But if you are being told a car park can’t take the weight of say 5 tonne a drawing or spec would back that up. Or not as the case maybe.
I presume LA’s would hold drawings on file either electronically or microfiche.

Maybe I just have an enquiring mind that needs to be satisfied with black and white evidence

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[GJH]

That may be so.
But if you are being told a car park can’t take the weight of say 5 tonne a drawing or spec would back that up. Or not as the case maybe.
I presume LA’s would hold drawings on file either electronically or microfiche.

Maybe I just have an enquiring mind that needs to be satisfied with black and white evidence

Yes, drawings would back up the statement but (and it's a general point in relation to all FoI enquiries) why put the public purse (our money) to the expense of searching out such detail if it is not needed? In the case of car parks, many were/are constructed following the model standards that existed at the time. Thus, it would be sufficient for operational purposes (and to answer an enquiry) to record that rather than maintaining/converting all the detailed construction records.
I would not assume that older documents would be held electronically or on microfiche in any large organisations. Converting old documents is a cost and difficult to justify if they will hardly ever be looked at.

 

[Silver-Fox]

My guess would be there is a vault full of drawings in most LA’s

 

[Northernraider]

I can only repeat, my statement is based on facts, not opinion - facts obtained from discussing the matter with engineers in charge of LA car parks.

Is it facts or is it simply what they are telling you ?

As In go away we don't want to know?

I suspect it's the latter because like @jonegood I know from personal experience that carparks are built to take the weight of service vehicles.


The council's are not interested and they will give any tosh in response because they can.


The belief that council officials do not tell lies is like believing a lawyer or politician doesn't lie.

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[Northernraider]

I do not believe it would be possible to lay a tarmac carpark that would not cope with the average Motorhome. The machinery they use to do the job weighs far more.



I agree, I think they are lying too.

As do I

And if someone is so willing to believe it then it makes that so much easier.



Same with the waste dumping stories .....so many motorhomers just swallow it without question.
It's always been easy to sway public opinion to support law changes. They've been doing it for centuries

 

[Northernraider]

With the amount of 4x4 people carriers minibuses delivery vans etc on the roads I wouldn't imagine a weight limit anywhere near 3.5 tonne being the maximum


The steamroller that laid the blooming tarmac weighs more than that as did the truck delivering it.

As people have said repeatedly ...no one expects every carpark to be available for motorhome parking.

But the excuse that they can't take the weight is frankly taking the excrement

 

[Pernickety]

I am not familiar with the beach involved but how about this for a suggestion.
I suggest MotorFun members could arrange a beach clean-up day/rally. We use every social media platform we can to advertise the fact, we tell local radio and local newspapers that we are going to do it.

I'm not really in a position to do very much as I don't even have my van yet and it's a bit of a trek from Scottyland to Wales, but IMHO the best contribution yet is from @Bobby22 and I second and support it.

If any campaign has found support when I do find a wagon, then I for one will sign up, make the trip, and be present, bin-bag an all.

There will always be some who make life harder for the rest of us, and does it happen? Yes I'm afraid, as I've been seeing for myself recently just driving round, observing and talking to a few motorhomers - beginning to wonder just what kind of social group it is I'm joining

Those of us who do care about the environment are never going to stop those who are already comfortable with a lifestyle that's anti-social and disrespectful. What we can do is outnumber them, and as Graham suggests, do it publicly.

Great idea!

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[GJH]

Is it facts or is it simply what they are telling you ?

As In go away we don't want to know?

I suspect it's the latter because like @jonegood I know from personal experience that carparks are built to take the weight of service vehicles.

The council's are not interested and they will give any tosh in response because they can.

The belief that council officials do not tell lies is like believing a lawyer or politician doesn't lie.

You can suspect all you like but the information I received was either from ex-colleagues (who I knew personally and trusted to tell me the truth) or in response to FoI requests where people are well aware of the penalties which can be levied by the ICO for provision of false information.

I am happy to trust the information I was given; if you are not then tat is up to you.
All I would repeat is that making allegations of lying without evidence hinders good working relationships and chances of more facilities, rather than helps.

 

[Ingwe]

"The belief that council officials do not tell lies is like believing a lawyer or politician doesn't lie."

Please don't lump lawyers in with politicians. Over thirty years of being a lawyer and I never lied; nor do I know any other lawyers who have lied. Of course every profession will have its bad apples. I can't speak for politicians or council officials but steer clear of absurd generalisations in any event.

 

[Northernraider]

"The belief that council officials do not tell lies is like believing a lawyer or politician doesn't lie."

Please don't lump lawyers in with politicians. Over thirty years of being a lawyer and I never lied; nor do I know any other lawyers who have lied. Of course every profession will have its bad apples. I can't speak for politicians or council officials but steer clear of absurd generalisations in any event.

Any defence lawyer that knows his client is guilty is paid to lie


And having dealt with several property ones too they lie also.

Take offence if you wish but I did not name you specifically my comment was made on personal experience.


I'm fairly confident that a lot of other people will also have encounter liars in the fields I mentioned.

So the straw man argument of #notall...whatever isn't necessary


I didn't say all.

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[Ingwe]

I've no interest in getting into an argument with you; neither am I offended.

For your information, you should know that lawyers have two equal duties, one to their client and the other to the court. It is not a matter for a lawyer to judge the guilt or otherwise of their client, that is for the judge or jury. Should a lawyer be aware that the client is proposing to lie to the court, the lawyer's duty not to mislead the court means that the lawyer would either have to advise the client that he cannot give evidence and let the prosecution prove its case, or the lawyer would refuse to act. So your first proposition is false.
It sounds like you've been very unlucky with your dealings with lawyers and this may clearly have coloured your judgement.
I wish you a future free of involvement with lawyers.
Enjoy your weekend.