motorhome tax response

[pagey]

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/268246 apologies if this has been posted

 

[BobtheBass]

I've read this several times and consider myself to be reasonably intelligent but can't make any sense of what they say. They want people to choose the lowest polluting vehicles so they tax them the highest? The lunatics really have taken over the asylum!

 

[pagey]

i did not read it just more depression

 

[Deneb]

I've read this several times and consider myself to be reasonably intelligent but can't make any sense of what they say. They want people to choose the lowest polluting vehicles so they tax them the highest? The lunatics really have taken over the asylum!

But motorhomes are not low polluting vehicles, they are in fact some of the highest in the motor car class.

Legislation has caught up with motorhomes. It is not normally retrospective which means there is normally a date from which it applies. Older vehicles still benefit from a loophole that they have enjoyed for the last 18 years and hopefully will continue to do so.

Much the same as when legislation mandated fitting of seat belts to new vehicles. Owners of vehicles already on the road didn't have to rush out and fit them to stay legal.

 

[jezport]

If your van is over 3500kg there is no change.

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[Pausim]

If your van is over 3500kg there is no change.

Something I have read elsewhere, from the DVLA, suggests otherwise.

 

[Deneb]

Something I have read elsewhere, from the DVLA, suggests otherwise.

In fact the DVLA response you refer to, when read in conjunction with the government's response to the motorhome VED petition, suggests that all Euro 6D motorhomes irrespective of MPW will be taxed in the appropriate emissions related band, e.g. diesel car.

The HMG response states that, from 1st September 2019, ALL new M1SP vehicles (including motorhomes) must have a CO2 value entered on their final stage CoC.

 

[jezport]

In fact the DVLA response you refer to, when read in conjunction with the government's response to the motorhome VED petition, suggests that all Euro 6D motorhomes irrespective of MPW will be taxed in the appropriate emissions related band, e.g. diesel car.

The HMG response states that, from 1st September 2019, ALL new M1SP vehicles (including motorhomes) must have a CO2 value entered on their final stage CoC.

Yes but aren't all PHGV vehicles taxed the same? Or are they removing the tax class for PHGVs?

 

[Deneb]

Yes but aren't all PHGV vehicles taxed the same? Or are they removing the tax class for PHGVs?

PHGV is an "old" class for vehicles first registered prior to March 2001 (as is PLG).

DVLA have been using those classes to tax MHs which don't fit into the current classes (due to not having a final stage CO2 figure) as a kind of "catch all" alternative for the last 18 years.

Nothing is changing for vans already registered and allocated to either PLG or PHGV, but for new vans with a final stage CO2 figure on the CoC as now required by WLTP legislation, it appears that the intention is to tax all M1SP vehicles as either Diesel Car or Petrol Car according to their engine type.

 

[jezport]

So the first year will be a lot higher the years after that will be lower if I'm understanding it correctly

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[jezport]

How will self builds be taxed?

 

[Peter JohnsCross MH]

Contact the UK head office of your basic cab manufacturer and ask for a homolegan report, i.e, a certificate of conformity, you will need to give them your reg number and a copy of your V5

 

[Pausim]

So the first year will be a lot higher the years after that will be lower if I'm understanding it correctly

No, years 2 to 6 have an additional payment of £310 if over £40k.

 

[jezport]

What would be the downside of van conversions being registered as van with windows? Would this not keep it classed as a van for tax purposes?

 

[Deneb]

What would be the downside of van conversions being registered as van with windows? Would this not keep it classed as a van for tax purposes?

Van with windows is not a legal definition. The legal definition of a vehicle depends on its construction and intended use.

A "van with windows" equipped with living accomodation might still legally be an M1SP vehicle.

There is a historic reason for the van with windows description used on a V5C that I won't go into, other than to say it was designed to prevent a loophole that was allowing criminal elements to legitimise and acquire genuine documents for stolen motorhomes that had been rung or cloned.

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[Minxy]

jezport ... have you had your head in the sand? ? This has been discussed quite a few times on the forum recently, this may help:

New Motorhome Tax Costs? - 1st Sep 2019

Can anyone explain this to me please. I've just seen it a few minutes ago; https://www.spinney.co.uk/about/news/tax-increase

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

2017- Motorhome tax changes!

Just had a renewal slip for bike, with a slip inside asking me to check out the new tax rates for April 1st 2017 onwards on the website www.gov.uk/newvehicletaxrates Am I right that mohos registered after April1st 2017 the tax is going up to £465 for 5 years or have I got it wrong?? I know...

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

Bought a van at the Dusseldorf show, now got to import it..

Yes good point, I didn't make that clear in my request. That said it was quite a broad question with reference to a specific date when changes have apparently been made so I'd have thought that a response would have covered any changes that had been implemented? ... we're talking about the DVLA...

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

 

[Minxy]

So the first year will be a lot higher the years after that will be lower if I'm understanding it correctly

No, years 2 to 6 have an additional payment of £310 if over £40k.

Afraid it's £320 pa for years 2 to 6 under the guise of a 'luxury car tax'.

Year 1: up to £2135 (depends on emissions)
Years 2 to 6: £465 (£145 road tax + £320 luxury car tax)
Years 7 onwards: £145 road tax

 

[Minxy]

What would be the downside of van conversions being registered as van with windows? Would this not keep it classed as a van for tax purposes?

You would probably have to pay higher insurance rates and would be unlikely to get any of the cover for the full value of a motorhome which includes the furniture, equipment etc.

 

[airhoguk]

People in the VW world are hitting the problem of van conversions no longer being recognised as a 'motorhome' as they don't look like a motorhome externally. Whether this affects PVC's in general i'm not sure but would be interesting to see how Adria, IH, etc, etc are being hit. There are some insurers however that are accepting the conversions and covering them even though the vans can't be reclassified as motorhomes

 

[Vipar]

Looks like I might put mine on SORN for a year

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[Cheshirecat57]

Looks like I might put mine on SORN for a year

Hi
What would that achieve?

 

[Cheshirecat57]

The current/“new” legislation/ VED rules apply to the date of first registration of the van
Once the vehicle is a single day into registration its a used vehicle

Given this,self builds should notbe affected or sucked in to higher rate

 

[jezport]

The current/“new” legislation/ VED rules apply to the date of first registration of the van
Once the vehicle is a single day into registration its a used vehicle

Given this,self builds should notbe affected or sucked in to higher rate

So it's a loophole that could make more people self build or UK small manufacturers could register the vehicle as a van first before conversion, then reclassify after. Would this avoid all the new taxes?

 

[Minxy]

So it's a loophole that could make more people self build or UK small manufacturers could register the vehicle as a van first before conversion, then reclassify after. Would this avoid all the new taxes?

No, if it has the newer engine it will still pay the first registration fee, the only thing it would avoid is the luxury tax in years 2 to 6 as unless you've gone mad with manufacturer fitted options it will probably be below the £40,000 list price.

 

[Pausim]

So it's a loophole that could make more people self build or UK small manufacturers could register the vehicle as a van first before conversion, then reclassify after. Would this avoid all the new taxes?

Buying new is not a cheap option, perhaps it would be easier to buy second hand rather than look for questionable loopholes. Even the motorhomes subject to the luxury tax will drop out of it after year 6.

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[jezport]

Buying new is not a cheap option, perhaps it would be easier to buy second hand rather than look for questionable loopholes. Even the motorhomes subject to the luxury tax will drop out of it after year 6.

If no body buys new there will be no second hand!

If it became common practice to pre-register motorhomes as vans the whole issue can be avoided.

 

[Deneb]

People in the VW world are hitting the problem of van conversions no longer being recognised as a 'motorhome' as they don't look like a motorhome externally. Whether this affects PVC's in general i'm not sure but would be interesting to see how Adria, IH, etc, etc are being hit. There are some insurers however that are accepting the conversions and covering them even though the vans can't be reclassified as motorhomes

Adria, IH et al are not being hit. They are recognised final stage converters who hold the necessary type approvals.

 

[jezport]

Adria, IH et al are not being hit. They are recognised final stage converters who hold the necessary type approvals.

This issue is a whole different matter to the tax issue, I have read a lot of home builders are having issues with registering their conversion as a motorhome though. Maybe worth a separate thread?

 

[Pausim]

If no body buys new there will be no second hand!

If it became common practice to pre-register motorhomes as vans the whole issue can be avoided.

I suspect there will be a lot of groaning about the extra cost but I doubt that it will kill off the new market entirely. If the whole issue can be avoided as you suggest they will very quickly change the rules.

 

[Minxy]

Just to recap what my understand of all of this is as the new rates are split into 2 sections which I've given below - if anyone spots any errors please let me know!

First Registration costs/Road Tax:

This is based on vehicles which have emission data on the COC (mainly new 6d engines but others may also fall into this bracket if the dealer puts the info on the first registration paperwork!)

Does the new vehicle have the 6d engine OR are has the dealer entered the emissions data?

• Yes - you'll pay the new much higher registration fee in year one, then road tax from year 2 onwards will be £145.
• No - you'll pay under the existing road tax classification for either a PLG or PHG

Luxury Car Tax:

This is based on the manufacturer published basic list price not the price you may pay after discounts etc.

Is the list price £40,000 or more?

• Yes - you'll pay the luxury car tax of £320 for years 2 to 6
• No - you won't pay the luxury car tax

Is the list price below £40,000 but it has manufacturer fitted options that will take the total price to £40,000 or more?

• Yes - you'll pay the luxury car tax of £320 for years 2 to 6.
• No - you won't pay the luxury car tax

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