Motorhome search

[Kilroy]

finally retired and wanting to buy a MH for travel longish term (2 months per trip a few times a year hopefully) in UK and Europe.

I will be travelling solo. Having spent periods of time living in mobile homes over the years (while in college, building my house),
I have some experience of the frustrations of living in confined spaces.....which leads me to the decision to go for A Class at least 7.5 metre & up to 8.5 (or more)
Been looking at NeismanB Arto 79F/88LF
Hymer Starline B690
Frankia 7900QD/8410QD
Various Carthago
All have island bed set up which I think is a must for the time I'll be spending, and not into climbing into a cramped space repeatedly.
Beyond that, comfort on the road....suspension/drive/power etc driving position & automatic gearbox are important as the my body is a bit fragile after a long working life. Thinking as I will be solo that automatic levelling is important.....big garage etc.
I am also wondering about the FWD/Rwd debate, and having driven 2/3 ton vans, jeeps etc with long trailers, I have a horror of the sound of bottoming out!...so will do almost anything to avoid that in terms of the decision process.
I am having a debate with myself about the merits of buying older model & upgrading with various bits, or biting the bullet & going for something more recent. I don't want to spend my time with spanners or screwdrivers!....done enough of that!..so I'm not a DIY candidate in any sense.
I would appreciate any advice from the members...maybe can spot my mistakes already!
I have been trawling mobile.de for a few months to arrive at my selection of models above...
I realise there are a lot of points here, but feel free to respond to any parts of this.
Thank you

 

[denisejoe]

Welcome to the forum.

All the above vans sound as though they'd work for long trips. Personally I'd go for an older van as hopefully any problems will. have been sorted out - there are always niggles with new vans.

Think you need to be prepared to upgrade with bits you want that aren't on the van you buy.

Our first van was an old Hymer which we loved but after a few years Joe had a problem with his back and climbing in and out of the drop down bed became a problem so we had to change it. We've currently got an old Euromobile A Class which we've had for 7 years now and no plans to change it as it's almost everything we want. The only thing I'd like which I haven't got is a big fridge/freezer rather than the small under counter fridge which icebox across the top.

 

[Kilroy]

Hi there, and thank you for the welcome and the feedback.
Yes, climbing in and out is not for me any longer....done plenty of that in the mountain refuges and hostels in my time! When is a van "an older one"..?.....I have focussed my search on vans first registered in 2010 and I am a bit iffy about going earlier than that..?

 

[denisejoe]

All our vans have been purchased at 10 years old; so our current one is 17 years old now and still going strong. I think the older vans were more solidly put together.

 

[MaidinDevon]

Hi

I have an older Hymer B654. She is my 3rd van, and so far my favourite layout by far. My preference is for a comfortable and usable settee to lounge on. I don't like feeling cramped in the living area. The french bed is big enough, and comfy. I use the drop down for storage. I think a good bathroom is also important if you are going to be in the van for long periods of time.

If you like using the cab seats it is less of an issue I guess. I lounge on the sofa at home too.

I also travel solo. I would like a proper garage, although I would probably just fill it. I have had to buy a folding electric bike, because it has to go under the bed (in the small garage). I can't lift it onto the outside rack, and i would be worried about security. On the other hand, i can access most of the garage from inside, with the bed up, so that is very handy when it is tipping down outside., and i want to reach my toolbox or wine stash.

Good luck, whatever you decide. In my opinion you can"t beat getting in a van, sitting on the loo, standing in the shower, and imagining preparing and cooking a roast dinner.

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[Kilroy]

All our vans have been purchased at 10 years old; so our current one is 17 years old now and still going strong. I think the older vans were more solidly put together.

Good to get a sense of how old you are talking about. Interestingly, I was talking to a former mechanic who is now a fleet manager of a tour bus company, and he also recommends going around the 10 year mark.
I totally get that the mechanical/running gear would be still in great order at that age, particularly with the relatively low mileage on motorhomes. I was more concerned about the habitation aspect at that age, damo ingress, services ie wiring, plumbing etc , fittings & so on....?
Certainly I know it would be far less traumatising for me to get the first scratch on a ten year old rather than on a shiny much newer one!....an important consideration I guess!!

 

[Kilroy]

"damp ingress"!!

 

[denisejoe]

No problems with damp on our van. Had a bit of a damp problem on the last van, a Burstner, but that was due to the pipe from the shower losing the jubilee clip which we didn't know about until we found a damp patch in the garage. Got it sorted and then kept the van for another couple of years before changing to the current van.

 

[Kilroy]

Hi

I have an older Hymer B654. She is my 3rd van, and so far my favourite layout by far. My preference is for a comfortable and usable settee to lounge on. I don't like feeling cramped in the living area. The french bed is big enough, and comfy. I use the drop down for storage. I think a good bathroom is also important if you are going to be in the van for long periods of time.

If you like using the cab seats it is less of an issue I guess. I lounge on the sofa at home too.

I also travel solo. I would like a proper garage, although I would probably just fill it. I have had to buy a folding electric bike, because it has to go under the bed (in the small garage). I can't lift it onto the outside rack, and i would be worried about security. On the other hand, i can access most of the garage from inside, with the bed up, so that is very handy when it is tipping down outside., and i want to reach my toolbox or wine stash.

Good luck, whatever you decide. In my opinion you can"t beat getting in a van, sitting on the loo, standing in the shower, and imagining preparing and cooking a roast dinner.

Thanks for all that, eminently sensible feedback. I hope to carry at least an electric bike, and possibly a scooter or even motorbike, to get around on when parked up. With the size of van I am looking at I am hoping to get a garage big enough, as I'm thinking that a lot of minor roads could well be out of bounds, not to mention town/village centres.
Unfortunately with the covid travel restrictions I am not able to get around to do the sitting on the loo or lounging on the sofa bit at the moment!........and totally agree without wanting to feel cramped in the living area......all that leading me to the bigger vehicle inevitably...

 

[Stealaway]

Don't forget that at age 70 you have to re apply for your C1 license for vans over 3.5 tonnes

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[davidbaldam]

Hi and welcome to FUN.

 

[nicholsong]

finally retired and wanting to buy a MH for travel longish term (2 months per trip a few times a year hopefully) in UK and Europe.

I will be travelling solo. Having spent periods of time living in mobile homes over the years (while in college, building my house),
I have some experience of the frustrations of living in confined spaces.....which leads me to the decision to go for A Class at least 7.5 metre & up to 8.5 (or more)
Been looking at NeismanB Arto 79F/88LF
Hymer Starline B690
Frankia 7900QD/8410QD
Various Carthago
All have island bed set up which I think is a must for the time I'll be spending, and not into climbing into a cramped space repeatedly.
Beyond that, comfort on the road....suspension/drive/power etc driving position & automatic gearbox are important as the my body is a bit fragile after a long working life. Thinking as I will be solo that automatic levelling is important.....big garage etc.
I am also wondering about the FWD/Rwd debate, and having driven 2/3 ton vans, jeeps etc with long trailers, I have a horror of the sound of bottoming out!...so will do almost anything to avoid that in terms of the decision process.
I am having a debate with myself about the merits of buying older model & upgrading with various bits, or biting the bullet & going for something more recent. I don't want to spend my time with spanners or screwdrivers!....done enough of that!..so I'm not a DIY candidate in any sense.
I would appreciate any advice from the members...maybe can spot my mistakes already!
I have been trawling mobile.de for a few months to arrive at my selection of models above...
I realise there are a lot of points here, but feel free to respond to any parts of this.
Thank you

Kilroy

An excellent first post. You have obviously done considerable research for which you should be congratulated - we get a lot of new members coming on here with such open-ended questions as 'I want a MH what shall I buy', often without stating what they want to do with it.

You have stated that you will do longish touring with it, although not whether you favour campsites or wild camping/Aires, or a mix. With the sort of MHs you list either would be possible, but it may influence the extras you could fit.

While touching on extras, it leads me to comment on your decision whether to buy new or used. If you buy new a lot of extras such as solar, leveling systems etc. can be factory fitted, but at a price. However most of them can be fitted after-market professionally(no DIY) for less, so whether you need to fit those extras to a new or used MH there is little difference, except ease of cabling, but with those marques you mention the cables may be already fitted. Only a few extras are cheaper with new MH e.g. cab aircon, which is v. expensive to retrofit

Continuing on the new/used debate. There is certainly a view that pre 2006/7 MHs were better built. The one point on which new MHs win is the emissions category, but only important if you want city centres availability, but they have all the gizmos, and expensive faults, to achieve this. Of the quality MHs you list their quality habitation areas should last well. We bought N&B Arto 69GL at six years, 11 years ago and the interior is still fine. As you say the chassis and running gear will also be OK for '000s more miles. We bought our Arto at a price incl. extras of about 1/2 its price new. We have had very few faults on our now 17 year-old machine.

As for size, having specified an island bed, then to get good lounging space forward you are right to think in the 7.5-8.5m range. That would be our choice if we changed to an island bed model. The only disadvantage of getting extra, but maybe unused, length, especially for you in Ireland and wanting to do several tours a year, is the extra cost of the length on Irish Sea ferries several times a year.

I suggest you look at MPLW of 4.25t-4.5t to give a comfortable payload.

I think you have most aspects covered already, congratulations on your research. I would put your requirements on a 'specification sheet', as an aide memoire for yourself and to show dealers, if you go near them, that you are a serious buyer and to deter them from trying to show you unsuitable MHs.

I note you have started another thread on the subject. I think that may dilute replies and I suggest you announce that you wish to end that one.

I think that you are 50-75% at arriving at your final specification, then starts the fun of finding the right MH. Maybe on mobile.de. I took 2 years from scratch on the spec, and another two years to find the Arto, but I was also working.

I like your approach so please ask any other questions.

Good Luck.

Geoff

 

[Kilroy]

Hi Geoff
many thanks for your comprehensive and encouraging message.

You have stated that you will do longish touring with it, although not whether you favour campsites or wild camping/Aires, or a mix. With the sort of MHs you list either would be possible, but it may influence the extras you could fit.

Yes, I am intending to keep my options open so that I can have that flexibility as I travel

so whether you need to fit those extras to a new or used MH there is little difference, except ease of cabling, but with those marques you mention the cables may be already fitted. Only a few extras are cheaper with new MH e.g. cab aircon, which is v. expensive to retrofit

that's a really interesting point that I needed to clarify. Good news to see that most extras can be professionally retrofitted without butchering the van, and I had never even considered that wiring/ducting might already be in place for that in some models. And also the important point re cab aircon is noted.

Continuing on the new/used debate. There is certainly a view that pre 2006/7 MHs were better built. The one point on which new MHs win is the emissions category, but only important if you want city centres availability, but they have all the gizmos, and expensive faults, to achieve this.

The extent of limitation due to emissions level is certainly a consideration that I was unsure of how to quantify...I'm not sure that I would be wanting to access city centres in any case.
On the other hand, I certainly can relate to the "gizmos and related expensive faults" point!...but would also prefer not to pollute beyond the least possible

The only disadvantage of getting extra, but maybe unused, length, especially for you in Ireland and wanting to do several tours a year, is the extra cost of the length on Irish Sea ferries several times a year.

I have thought about this question, and resolved that hopefully finding a van that suits my various priorities as outlined, I am not going to undermine all other considerations by trying to save on ferry/road tolls.

I suggest you look at MPLW of 4.25t-4.5t to give a comfortable payload.

Totally agreed...want to have flexibility there too


Going back to the overall length, I do have some concern re the "bottoming out" issue, particularly boarding ferries/ sloping bends.....any thoughts?.....and, possibly related to this question, that of fwd/rwd and tandem axels......perhaps this questions need separate threads later..?

Thanks again

Kilroy

 

[Kilroy]

Don't forget that at age 70 you have to re apply for your C1 license for vans over 3.5 tonnes

Thank you. I like that war cry!! quite like something on my family crest!

 

[Kilroy]

Hi and welcome to FUN.

Thank you

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[Kilroy]

No problems with damp on our van. Had a bit of a damp problem on the last van, a Burstner, but that was due to the pipe from the shower losing the jubilee clip which we didn't know about until we found a damp patch in the garage. Got it sorted and then kept the van for another couple of years before changing to the current van.

Thank you. Good to know

 

[RubyOptics]

Hello Kilroy and welcome! My family and I have just completed the journey you are embarking on and the first and best piece of advice I can give is not to rush! nicholsong started he took two years to find his, we took a little less, but still over a year to find what we wanted, and what we ended up buying was completely different to what I thought I did when I first posted here looking for help!
I also agree regarding the interior quality of older vans. We purchased a 2001 Burstner coach-built, but prior to purchase we hired a 2018 PLA van. Yes, the newer van was flashier and has more bells and whistles, but ours feels a lot more solid and durable!
I would suggest looking at the various layouts you like and then rent a van with as close to that as possible for a week. We are coming to of season, so that will save a few pennies, but trying the layout before shelling out for real deal could prove invaluable. Good luck on your search.

 

[Kilroy]

Hello Kilroy and welcome! My family and I have just completed the journey you are embarking on and the first and best piece of advice I can give is not to rush! nicholsong started he took two years to find his, we took a little less, but still over a year to find what we wanted, and what we ended up buying was completely different to what I thought I did when I first posted here looking for help!
I also agree regarding the interior quality of older vans. We purchased a 2001 Burstner coach-built, but prior to purchase we hired a 2018 PLA van. Yes, the newer van was flashier and has more bells and whistles, but ours feels a lot more solid and durable!
I would suggest looking at the various layouts you like and then rent a van with as close to that as possible for a week. We are coming to of season, so that will save a few pennies, but trying the layout before shelling out for real deal could prove invaluable. Good luck on your search.

Many thanks...
yes,getting a van is going to be a process rather than an event!!

 

[Swifter]

I think the older vans were more solidly put together.

totally agree

 

[Lenny HB]

Thanks for all that, eminently sensible feedback. I hope to carry at least an electric bike, and possibly a scooter or even motorbike, to get around on when parked up. With the size of van I am looking at I am hoping to get a garage big enough, as I'm thinking that a lot of minor roads could well be out of bounds, not to mention town/village centres.

I think you need to consider Twin beds then you get a full size garage. Island beds restrict the height of the garage very few island bed vans that would take a scooter.

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[gus-lopez]

 

[Kilroy]

Update:
so I have seen a number of possibly suitable vans, but all on mobile.de and none in uk.
As a complete newbie, and considering a fairly hefty investment, I am wondering if there is an individual or company out there who can advise on purchasing and importing to UK ?.....
(obviously a professional service for a fee?)
I am outside my own area of competence to judge the value of various offers for sale or to notice the pitfalls....any suggestions welcome.
Thanks

 

[nicholsong]

Update:
so I have seen a number of possibly suitable vans, but all on mobile.de and none in uk.
As a complete newbie, and considering a fairly hefty investment, I am wondering if there is an individual or company out there who can advise on purchasing and importing to UK ?.....
(obviously a professional service for a fee?)
I am outside my own area of competence to judge the value of various offers for sale or to notice the pitfalls....any suggestions welcome.
Thanks

I had anticipated this post coming. I am close to bedtime and can give a fuller answer tomorrow, but meanwhile can you clarify if you are importing to UK or ROI, as the flag coming up on you Avatar is the Irish Tricolor. Are you in ROI or NI?

If it is ROI would the import rules be the same as UK?

You will see why I asked when you get a fuller answer from me.

Geoff

 

[Kilroy]

Thanks for your reply.
I am based in ROI, and have a son resident in UK.
As we have a VRT rate of 13.5% on the assessed value of an imported motorhome, and not on the invoice value, the amount of duty payable can be a lottery to some extent. For that reason I had considered importing to UK, and after a 6 month period my son would be able to return the vehicle to ROI free of VRT when he relocates back here. But as I start to look deeper into the UK system, I'm getting concerned that it's a bit more complicated than I had thought, and between tax, insurance, storage etc and effort, I am beginning to think that the returns might not be worth the jigs and reels involved......maybe just pay the ROI art and have a once off transaction.
Your thoughts?
The assessment of any potential vehicle and the process of importing as a financial & logistical transaction is a related but separate question I think...hopefully I am making myself clear..

 

[nicholsong]

I am not surprised at your reasons.

The reason I asked was that I know somebody who has self-imported to UK several times over the years, but would know nothing of ROI.

If you do decide on UK I will ask their permission to put you in contact, but they are touring in Germany at the moment.

Let me know when you decide.

Geoff

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[Kilroy]

I am currently looking at a 2014 Arto 88 with 3litre Fiat engine (online). I would appreciate any feedback on this particular model if anyone is familiar with it?
Thanks

 

[Kilroy]

That should read "Arto 83" !! I need to update my specs..