Motorhome parking Ban (3 Viewers)

[Stewart J]

Thanks Jim. Reading the whole of the Tiree article it seems they are looking to be constructive to try to reach a compromise which will work.

We holidayed on Tirree early June 2010 (cottage) and out of curiosity went and looked at all these so called camping spots for MH's and photographed many. Most are £10 per night which seems fair but there are no EHU's nor any toilet disposal facilities. In fact the only disposal point is by lifting the manhole outside the public toilet at Scarnish (opposite the Co-op) and I'm not sure if this is an approved solution a motorhomer we befriended showed us and he was staying on the only caravan site! Very few have FW avaliable

Most of the sites are on grass/ sandy soil, many have views to die for, few are level, some I wouldn't chance taking a car onto let alone a heavy MH so all things taken into consideration its not a ideal compromise even if the idea is good. (This was also the impression given to us by locals when we spoke about it, they believed it would have the effect of turning folk away)

I believe the island council have an agreement with the ferry operators that MH's are not allowed to proceed past a holding area till proof of an approved site is shown.

Locals are of the opinion the cause of all this is the hordes of MH's that descend for the annual windsurfing competition in Oct and chase the waves wildcamping on the dunes and Machair wherever.

We did see this in Oct 2009 when holidaying on the island and it was something to see a convoy of campervans & MH's charging across dunes and parking up whenever wind and waves changed. There was also the unpleasant side concerning disposal of waste and rubbish, not nice

So I can understand the authorities wishing to solve the problem but don't think is was well thought out.

If anyone wants to see site pics let me know.

Stewart

 

[Mixter]

I would say there is more scope for your average campervan dweller - even the modern ones, to be more 'antisocial'. For no other reason than some (maybe all?) have no onboard loo. Ok, they could take a portaloo/toilet tent, but im guessing a good few of the 'carefree' types dont. I know one whole family who'll happily 'do it in the woods'. And, they wont be alone in this attitude.

 

[barryd]

I have visited 18 scottish islands mainly in a VW camper and a tent. Neither me or as far as I am aware any of my friends ever Sh*t in the woods, beach or whereever. We were never out of the pub that long!

Anyway dogs, bears (ok bears is a bad example) and all sorts of animals poo in the woods.

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[buttons]

A few misconceptions exist in the minds of motor homers. Some think we can do as we like because we keep the local economy afloat.oh:
Another is, we are being discriminated against just because we drive a motor home.

Spending the occasional night in an idyllic spot and leaving nothing but our footprints is one thing. Taking over popular tourist areas for free is something totally different.
Without having to spend money in a campsite, we contribute little. We use “out of town supermarkets” for fuel and goods etc. We cook our own meals in the van and drink our supermarket plonk.
We also tend to leave our refuse, empty our waste and fill with free water if we can. Why wouldn’t the local council and tourist lobby get pis—d off? :Angry:

Being totally self sufficient can make us selfish. Look outside your vans and consider what of how you are perceived by none motor home owners. It could shock you.

 

[barryd]

A few misconceptions exist in the minds of motor homers. Some think we can do as we like because we keep the local economy afloat.oh:
Another is, we are being discriminated against just because we drive a motor home.

Spending the occasional night in an idyllic spot and leaving nothing but our footprints is one thing. Taking over popular tourist areas for free is something totally different.
Without having to spend money in a campsite, we contribute little. We use “out of town supermarkets” for fuel and goods etc. We cook our own meals in the van and drink our supermarket plonk.
We also tend to leave our refuse, empty our waste and fill with free water if we can. Why wouldn’t the local council and tourist lobby get pis—d off? :Angry:

Being totally self sufficient can make us selfish. Look outside your vans and consider what of how you are perceived by none motor home owners. It could shock you.

So why then do the French, Italians and most of Europe stick Aires all over the place? They work, I hardly ever see anyone abusing them, you never see anyone making noise after 11pm and they are (nearly) always tidy.

We recently spent 3 days wilding around Ullswater in the Lake district as part of a 16 day tour of the lakes. We spent money in the pubs, attractions, garages, local shops just as we would anywhere.

Cant wait to get to France and spend all my hard earned there though were I know we will be safer and made more welcome than the UK.

 

[GJH]

So why then do the French, Italians and most of Europe stick Aires all over the place?

Because society had evolved differently in the UK from mainland Europe, witness the arguments over EU membership if nothing else.

Whether we like it or not the people of the UK do not really want aires. That includes the vast majority of motorhome owners, as evidenced by the failure to achieve more than a few hundred supporters every time any petition for aires is published.

The only way any aire type facilities will be provided in the UK is by individuals/clubs making the effort to persuade councils and/or other landowners on an individual basis. Previous threads have shown that precious few people are prepared to do so.

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[buttons]

Because society had evolved differently in the UK from mainland Europe, witness the arguments over EU membership if nothing else.
Whether we like it or not the people of the UK do not really want aires. That includes the vast majority of motorhome owners, as evidenced by the failure to achieve more than a few hundred supporters every time any petition for aires is published.
The only way any aire type facilities will be provided in the UK is by individuals/clubs making the effort to persuade councils and/or other landowners on an individual basis. Previous threads have shown that precious few people are prepared to do so.

ditto.......

 

[Mixter]

A few misconceptions exist in the minds of motor homers.]Some think we can do as we like because we keep the local economy afloat.oh:
Another is, we are being discriminated against just because we drive a motor home.

Spending the occasional night in an idyllic spot and leaving nothing but our footprints is one thing. Taking over popular tourist areas for free is something totally different.
Without having to spend money in a campsite, we contribute little. We use “out of town supermarkets” for fuel and goods etc. We cook our own meals in the van and drink our supermarket plonk.
We also tend to leave our refuse, empty our waste and fill with free water if we can. Why wouldn’t the local council and tourist lobby get pis—d off? :Angry:

Being totally self sufficient can make us selfish. Look outside your vans and consider what of how you are perceived by none motor home owners. It could shock you.

Can i ask, just who is this we here? Coming out with a statement like this, is doing exactly what you reckon 'non-MHers' think of us. You are tarring everyone with the same brush.

I dont think i can 'do as i like', and im sure many others likewise. Neither do i always 'fill up' at out of town joints. I do, however, spend a good amount of money in the local shops, pubs and eateries.

These height barriers are preventing the likes of myself who may want to stop off for half a day to replenish my stocks, do a bit of shopping, and see the local area. Ironicaly, its the smaller outfits who are still literally getting under the radar, thus able to 'overnight on the cheap', and have the least facilities when push comes to shove.

I however, have no wish to tar all fellow campers with the smaller units, of any possible wrongdoing.

 

[alcorn54]

Facts of Statement

Snips for brevity.


The big difference is that the users of those other vehicles do not overnight.


I wouldn't disagree - but we are faced with the fact that others offer verbal abuse and threats if they can't get their own selfish way.


OH sorry one last thing ,it must have had somthing to do with the planning authority ,as far as I am aware you cant just erect barriers even on if privatly owened land without permision from the local planning department. It would be helpful if you could provide the facts behind that statement. .

Graham
Please find copy cut from Chris@the castles Statement last year ,I noticed you were involved in that discussion and commented much the same then,Like I said planning must have been approved to erect barriers so council must have been aware. Regards Alan
See section below
4. The barriers will be 6' 11" (2.1m) tall and yes we did have to get planning
permission and they will be removed between November and February.

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[alcorn54]

Petition

I still think it would be a good idea if someone from FUN petitioned the council and the castle owners to see if this decision could be overturned and to ask for proof/and an explanation as to why they have stopped parking completely,and of coarse to put our feelings on this matter forward . Yes ,to stop overnight parking is fair ,but to stop parking on these sites completely for Motorhomes is discrimantion.

Alan

 

[barryd]

I think the majority of motorhomers would support Aires. I agree lobbying for them is a different story and requires a lot of work. I suspect most people realise they are fighting a loosing battle with UK legislation and councils etc. I think however that a lot of UK residents are very teritorial and protective of their areas and do not like change. You see aires in france often within yards of houses. The locals dont seem bothered and are always pleasant but I dont think it would go down to well here. All our local authorities see is people trying to get something for nothing (or cheap overnight spots). They dont see beyond the fact that we dont need campsites and for most if they cant park near a village or attraction they wont visit it. Their loss. Yes I would love to see Aires here but they probably wont happen for these reasons and others. The UK is far too regimented and legislated.

Personally it wont bother me as when and if I go full timing the first stop will be Dover and the only reason to come back will be for an MOT. I certainly wont miss the weather, grumpy people, traffic, legislation and quite frankly pretty dull scenery in comparison to many parts of Europe.

 

[buttons]

I however, have no wish to tar all fellow campers with the smaller units, of any possible wrongdoing.

Sorry Mixer you will have to help me with this one.

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[barryd]

If the car park at Bamburgh is of "Special scientific interest" and motorhomes are somehow spoiling that how come it appears ok to go there between november and February.

4. The barriers will be 6' 11" (2.1m) tall and yes we did have to get planning
permission and they will be removed between November and February

Is it somehow less scientifically interesting during those months? Will the vans do less damage in the winter or is it just an excuse to ban motorhomes in the spring, summer and autumn?

The sensible suggestion would be perhaps 4 bays for vans. When they are full they are full and if you park in a none MH bay you get fined.

 

[rangi]

I've read this threadfrom start to finish, some posts Iagree with, some I don't. BUT all this hand wringing, talk of trying to get the ban lifted will get you nowhere!

Only way to fix it is do as the Lady in a previous post says, DON'T go there! They can jam it! (you need a translator with you anyway! cause there's no way they speakee the Queens English up there)

 

[buttons]

(you need a translator with you anyway! cause there's no way they speakee the Queens English up there)

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[GJH]

Graham
Please find copy cut from Chris@the castles Statement last year ,I noticed you were involved in that discussion and commented much the same then,Like I said planning must have been approved to erect barriers so council must have been aware. Regards Alan
See section below
4. The barriers will be 6' 11" (2.1m) tall and yes we did have to get planning
permission and they will be removed between November and February.

Thanks. Note to self, must be more careful

 

[GJH]

I still think it would be a good idea if someone from FUN petitioned the council and the castle owners to see if this decision could be overturned and to ask for proof/and an explanation as to why they have stopped parking completely,and of coarse to put our feelings on this matter forward . Yes ,to stop overnight parking is fair ,but to stop parking on these sites completely for Motorhomes is discrimantion.

Alan

It's really nothing to do with Northumberland County Council, Alan, other than (as you rightly pointed out) the granting of planning permission. The castle is privately owned and, just like the rest of us, the owners can do what they like with their property so long as it's legal.

Chris gave an explanation for the decision in the thread last year. As he pointed out, parking for motorhomes hasn't been stopped completely, it is still possible to park during the day:

3. There are still some places for parking on the Wyndings road, there is also a large council run carpark by the main road below the castle (Also used by 'wild' campers)
There is parking in the castle car park and there is parking with public loos at the
links about 1 mile outside Bamburgh, great for the beach.

 

[GJH]

I think the majority of motorhomers would support Aires. I agree lobbying for them is a different story and requires a lot of work. I suspect most people realise they are fighting a loosing battle with UK legislation and councils etc. (snip).

I'm sure you're right, Barry, that the majority would support aires if they existed. What most won't do is actually put in work to promote them.

It is not, though, true to say that it would necessarily be a losing battle because facilities do exist in some places after successful lobbying, e.g. Link Removed.

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[Mixter]

Only way to fix it is do as the Lady in a previous post says, DON'T go there! They can jam it! (you need a translator with you anyway! cause there's no way they speakee the Queens English up there)

And we are wondering why we are being barred from places! oh:

 

[barryd]

I'm sure you're right, Barry, that the majority would support aires if they existed. What most won't do is actually put in work to promote them.

It is not, though, true to say that it would necessarily be a losing battle because facilities do exist in some places after successful lobbying, e.g. Link Removed.

Yes there has been pockets of success but as you say its a lot of hard work and I think many attempts hit a brick wall. The whitby one springs to mind. Scarborough Council just wouldnt listen. There was a long running thread on FACTS where members put together a strong case for overnight parking on the large car park where lorries etc park overnight and some wild campers do (even though they shouldnt officially). The response despite the clearly stated advantages was to use a campsite. Again more lost trade and another opportunity missed by unaccountable civil servants. Having said that Flyde council (lytham St Annes) have had the opposite view and are opening up 5 Aires on their car parks and have been very possitive about it despite a few grumblings from one or two locals.

Link Removed

It just makes me so annoyed when I see signs in completely empty car parks stating no overnighting or sleeping in vehicles. It doesnt effect me to much as I love the CL network and having a bike on board means we can park out of the way a bit or choose a quiet rural wild spot and just use the scooter. I am also a Blue badge holder which helps but it must be frustrating for a lot of motorhome users who cant get near to where they want to be or cant even park for the afternoon. No wonder we all flock to Europe.

I suspect there will be a few like Flyde and Guisborough that keep popping up but I wont hold my breath for the All the aires UK book! Perhaps a massive campaign jointly run by all the forums and MH publications may help. I wouldnt have a clue where to start though.

 

[GJH]

I think I know the Whitby car park you mean, near the marina at the end of the road from the Co-op/TIC. Not being a member of Facts I don't know what arguments were advanced and the details of why they were rejected.

As you say, Fylde have taken the opposite view and I do happen to know that much of the evidence which persuaded them was provided by an individual (not me) motorhome owner.

It is interesting that you use the phrase "unaccountable civil servants" because that sort of language is heard all too often by civil servants and local government officers when people do not get their way. It is also inaccurate as local government officers and members are accountable through bodies like the Audit Commission, Local Government Ombudsman and the Standards Board for England.

I would urge that you use any evidence of malpractice by initially making a complaint to Scarborough Council and, assuming the complaint isn't upheld, taking it through all the stages to the Ombudsman.

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[rangi]

And we are wondering why we are being barred from places! oh:

OOOOOH! Mixter! reading the above has made me change my mind dear boy! Innit! by gum lad trouble at mill that's grand misses!
And it is this , by gum! anyone from below the River Tamar ventureing north, innit, should take, a by gum chum tha's grand, T'Translator! cause them weird folk north of the border (in case your humour by pass has kicked in again, BY GUM! ) don't speak english like what we do 'ere in Gods little Acre, by flipping gum!

LIGHTEN UP MAN!

 

[GJH]

This thread prompted me to do a bit of Googling and I found Link Removed.

Interesting to see a case where a council is in favour of facilities for motorhomes and the local private sector tourism leader puts forward the very argument which councils are often criticised for using:

Paul Rollings, president of the Holiday Association of Lytham St Annes, said: “First of all they take up valuable parking spaces.
“All the car parks could be filled and then there’s no parking for ordinary people who want to come.
“Secondly you will have smaller guest houses thinking ‘what is the point in having a guest house and charging £15 a head when people can park their vans and sleep for free?’.
“I feel that in a way it’s knocking us by saying ‘it is all right to bring your caravans here but don’t stay at the hotels because it’s cheaper to do that’.”
He added: “I don’t want to be anti-caravan but I don’t think it’s right for St Annes.”

Whatever the rights and wrongs, on either side, this is a plain illustration of the situations in which local authorities find themselves, where it is very difficult to please all and to opt for the choice which is fairest to the majority.

 

[alcorn54]

no parking for ordinary people who want to come.

This sums it up for me !
** no parking for ordinary people who want to come**What sort of people do they think we are??

Dont they realise we are ok people .,
I used to have a guest house a few years back and welcomed all to Morcambe bay ,and we didnt expect everybody to stay over night at my place ,. I was also night manager at Pontins at the same time and we welcomed Campers,caravaners ,and Motorhomers to use the facilitys as it brought in much needed revenue for all plus it created a nice atmosphere when the town and local area was buzzing. Pubs ,shops,eateries and locals all benefited. A survey was done at the time by the local council,I think it was only around 2 out of every 2/300 plus visiting stayed over in local B&B. The rest either went home of made other arrangments so most of the revenue was created by day visits. So basically invest in your town make everyone welcome and create more facilitys for people to visit and it will increase revenue.

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[scotjimland]

This sums it up for me !
** no parking for ordinary people who want to come**What sort of people do they think we are??
.

I think you hit the nail firmly on the head ...

They may only have a perception .. a perception based on stories on the media, rumours, prejudices, etc .. jealously also plays a part .. you may even find some are motorhomers or caravanners themselves .. who knows

If you think back before you had a MH .. what was your perception .. ? This may give a clue or maybe not..

As a life long camper , caravanner and motorhomer I recall the days when campers in tents were looked down on .. even despised by many .. times change but people don't.

 

[jezport]

In my opinion the council wont listen to us. I have tried with other councils. The best way to put our view forward is to contact the local traders asssociation (presuming they have one) saying that we have visited their area many times and due to their changes in parking policy we will no longer be able to visit. I now have a policy of 'If we aint welcome then F%#k you'

 

[GJH]

This sums it up for me !
** no parking for ordinary people who want to come**What sort of people do they think we are??

In my opinion the council wont listen to us. I have tried with other councils.

The point - as made in my earlier post - is that this isn't the council speaking. In this case Fylde Council want to make facilities available. The quote was from a representative of establishments which motorhome owners probably wouldn't do business with anyway.

If councils are faced with that sort of attitude, opposing representations which motorhome owners make, then it is hardly surprising that they find it difficult to make changes (and easier to maintain the status quo).

In order to effect change it is totally insufficient to simply send letters/e-mails. What is needed is lobbying of council members/officers with hard evidence of the benefits. Unless motorhome owners are willing to put in that sort of effort then the situation is hardly likely to change.

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[jezport]

In order to effect change it is totally insufficient to simply send letters/e-mails. What is needed is lobbying of council members/officers with hard evidence of the benefits. Unless motorhome owners are willing to put in that sort of effort then the situation is hardly likely to change.

How do you think we should lobby?

 

[carolynmaria139]

'wild camping', bad behaviour??

can someone please explain to me why this activity is considered unacceptable ? surely if we leave no trace we have been there it does no harm !

 

[John & Joan]

can someone please explain to me why this activity is considered unacceptable ? surely if we leave no trace we have been there it does no harm !

In my opinion there isn't a problem if you do not disturb the normal activity of the place you park, including visual aspects of the area and not leave anything. It may be OK for one van to stay but often others also crowd in and overstay their welcome. As a result locals immediately complain as they don't want things to escalate to a full blown encampment instead of a pull off or car park.

The trouble is many people seem to think that wild camping involves setting up campfires and cooking facilities outside and as a result damage the ground. Many of these are campers as well as caravanners/Motorhomers

Many also think that they can dump waste in hedges and ditches as it is out of sight, forgetting that it can cause pollution to existing water courses.

It is these people that have maintained the defiance against the Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act 1960. Which made it an offence for a landowner to permit camping/caravanning on his land without an exemption or a site licence. This Act came about because of the uncontrolled camping and caravanning that was booming at the time. It set up places where people could camp with consideration to the local ameinities and provide places for the disposal of waste and to obtain drinking quality water.

This was before the development of the fully self contained Motorhome that does not need anything placed outside of it to enable its full use, unlike caravans.

In France and Spain you are allowed to park a motorhome, not a caravan, for a limited time provided only the tyres are in contact with the road. They developed Aire facilities. In the UK we went down the route of camping sites.

Many licenced campsites have forgotten this aspect of catering for touring visitors and have been gradually converted to static encampments with holiday camp facilities.

In the 60s I was trained and took great pride in the ability as a scout to set up fires without damaging the ground and how to dispose of my waste so that it didn't polute. On a training course the leaders had to get us to take them to our campsite as they could find no trace of it. It can be done of you know what you are doing but it would seem today that many people just don't care.

John

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