Motorhome Goverment Petition (1 Viewer)

[ShiftZZ]

I think there could be a danger here that the number of Motorhomers may be small and may undermine the whole cause.

Government - Oh look only 7k bothered, so we can ignore them.

Ace played and blown..

 

[vwalan]

he who dares wins . so they say . if nobody tries then you cant win .
its been on most forums i believe. so is it all there are .
its certainly all that have signed . but then internet isnt exactly everyones ideal. but it had to be worth a try . still time get your friends to sign.

 

[ShiftZZ]

You are missing the point, the parking /aire issue needs a central point of organisation, a focus, these 'silly' petitions will get us nowhere. They will simply be ignored and dismissed now and at a later date.

Strategy.
A meeting needs to be held between all of the interested parties, MHF, Facts, Widcamping, Camping and Caravan Club etc.

A survey needs to be undertaken to determine the need of these facilities.

Once this has been worked out, a plan needs to be put into place:

A) A friendly supportive MP.
B ) A business case and financial proposal created, agreed and added to the case.
C ) A council to agree to trial it, any fees or legal fees coved by all the interested groups.

Once you have these in place and it has been shown to work, then take it forward.

As it stands, its like some small kids demanding whatever, the council do not have the funds, the resources or the inclination to papmper to a small number of pampered individuals. You can hear their argument, if you can afford a motorhome you can afford to stay on sites, its not our fault you chose an expensive hobby, we have bigger demands on our budget.

Just being realistic.

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[vwalan]

so my visiting the parish council at ludgven regarding the parking at marazion wasnt the start of that type of thing . i believe they had never had anybody put forward the sugestion of aires. it was decided that it wasnt quite the time to discuss it but they did listen . and werent exactly against campers parking along the front on an infrequent time . it really is just a few that are pushing there luck.
we have to start somewhere . not sure if condeming folks efforts is going to get an advancement though. you could try a go your self . why waste your energy being negative.
in reality it could cost nothing .many carparks already have toilets and taps . just a few strips of paint to make larger spaces are required. a simple drain for waste could very cheaply be made .

 

[ShiftZZ]

FYI I have , I have spoken to a number of local councillors, and sent them no end of stuff about the aire in Ireland, and although they were interested they have the same issues.

So before you jump to any conclusion, I was not as you say negative, simply pointing out that an ill thought petition is pointless and will/could cause no end of damage. This need carefull planning , thinking and a strategy, not some gun ho appraoch that will get us nowhere...

There will be no end of objections from site owners and individuals who have a vested interest in this not happening, their voice will be far louder than a rather simple petition..

 

[ShiftZZ]

so my visiting the parish council at ludgven regarding the parking at marazion wasnt the start of that type of thing . i believe they had never had anybody put forward the sugestion of aires. it was decided that it wasnt quite the time to discuss it but they did listen . and werent exactly against campers parking along the front on an infrequent time . it really is just a few that are pushing there luck.
we have to start somewhere . not sure if condeming folks efforts is going to get an advancement though. you could try a go your self . why waste your energy being negative.
[HI]in reality it could cost nothing .many carparks already have toilets and taps . just a few strips of paint to make larger spaces are required. a simple drain for waste could very cheaply be made [/HI].

You are simply WRONG. Everything has a cost element. GJH can add to that,,,

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[vwalan]

i might be wrong . but i,m not negative to folk trying. after all they are already using the toilets and tipping their waste .and probably already getting their water there.
i hope they are putting their rubbish in the bins in the carpark as well .
possibly the cost is already happening . or most of it.
just trying to be positive .
think having half a dozen vans allowed could be a start . in many aires abroad its only a few spaces in a carpark . the larger aires only are not how they started over there. i rememer them back in the 90,s might only be two spaces just for m,homes .

 

[GJH]

Let's assume it's a car park.
1) Does it have planning permission for habitation (as opposed to simply parking)?
2) Is the construction robust enough for vehicles of > 3 tonnes or (like many older car parks) only designed for lighter vehicles?
3) How does the new TRO need to be worded to ensure that it has the desired effect?
4) What effect would making larger spaces have on existing use?
5) How does the council prevent abuse - is there sufficient funding to employ extra staff to enforce the new TRO?
6) How much benefit would it bring to the local people who are providing the funding through their council tax?
7) How much upset would it cause to residents living close by?
8) Would it be more cost effective to close the toilets between (say) 5pm and 10am to discourage those who are currently abusing facilities.

These are simply questions off the top of my head. There are bound to be more points that need dealing with in a particular location. None of those questions are designed to stop anyone taking the initiative and going to their local council to try to have facilities made available. They are, though, examples of the types of points that need to be researched and documented properly in order to talk to councils constructively - as mentioned in Broken Link Removed

I see that that thread has had 117 views, 4 likes, no comments and no volunteers to take up the challenge. No criticism of anyone but I think those numbers probably confirm that there is no significant interest in the establishment of UK aires.

 

[vwalan]

i agree with what you say graham . but i know i have put it forward to a few councils locally . unfortunately since the new county council bit as messed it up a bit . it seems cornwall county council are against anything .
but the local parish councils do seem to see it better.
.like i say its already happening . just not official .
might never be official but so long as nobody gets into trouble and is left alone . let it carry on .
there are always a few in any walk of life that can spoil it , but its far better not to punish every one else.
ideally they dont stop what is happening all ready.
as to the construction of the carparks cant help there if they can park in the day then staying the night isnt anymore damaging .
as for habitation .blind eye on that one works.
are the toilets being bused . not really . clean up after use is always ideal. should you splash any about.
it definately goes on through out the uk . loads of places dont seem to mind . just dont make it official. i find i can almost always find a nice place to stay . well nice to me anyway .

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[ShiftZZ]

i agree with what you say graham . but i know i have put it forward to a few councils locally . unfortunately since the new county council bit as messed it up a bit . it seems [HI]cornwall county council are against anything [/HI].
but the local parish councils do seem to see it better.
.like i say its already happening . [HI]just not official [/HI].
[HI]might never be official but so long as nobody gets into trouble and is left alone . let it carry on .[/HI]
there are always a[HI] few in any walk of life that can spoil it [/HI], but its far better not to punish every one else.
ideally they dont stop what is happening all ready.
as to the construction of the carparks cant help there if they can park in the day then staying the night isnt anymore damaging .
as for habitation .[HI]blind eye on that one works.[/HI]
are the toilets being bused . not really . clean up after use is always ideal. should you splash any about.
it definitely goes on through out the uk . loads of places don't seem to mind . just don't make it official. i find i can almost always find a nice place to stay . well nice to me anyway .

And that my friends is the reason why Councils don't and will not listen. ONE complaint from a local taxpayer and they will enforce and rightly so.

You can hear the argument, its a hobby, if you can afford a motorhome you can afford a campsite.

Having thought about it overnight, MHF, Camping and Caravan club etc arguably would not take it up as they have a vested interest in not allowing this to happen.

Consider, a person has invested in creating a small/large campsite only to be undermined when the council allows camping on their car parks, potentially for free. So the campsite owner may be paying commercial rates for council tax (for which they get very little in return) and then have the rug pulled from under them..

Council are under pressure to deliver with reduced funding, so in the scheme of things , School books v Camping for Motorhomes. oh: No brainier.

This is not negative, just being a realist.

Lastly, if you are parked 'illegally' and cause any damage are you insured?

 

[buttons]

Let's assume it's a car park.
1) Does it have planning permission for habitation (as opposed to simply parking)?
2) Is the construction robust enough for vehicles of > 3 tonnes or (like many older car parks) only designed for lighter vehicles?
3) How does the new TRO need to be worded to ensure that it has the desired effect?
4) What effect would making larger spaces have on existing use?
5) How does the council prevent abuse - is there sufficient funding to employ extra staff to enforce the new TRO?
6) How much benefit would it bring to the local people who are providing the funding through their council tax?
7) How much upset would it cause to residents living close by?
8) Would it be more cost effective to close the toilets between (say) 5pm and 10am to discourage those who are currently abusing facilities.

These are simply questions off the top of my head. There are bound to be more points that need dealing with in a particular location. None of those questions are designed to stop anyone taking the initiative and going to their local council to try to have facilities made available. They are, though, examples of the types of points that need to be researched and documented properly in order to talk to councils constructively - as mentioned in Broken Link Removed

I see that that thread has had 117 views, 4 likes, no comments and no volunteers to take up the challenge. No criticism of anyone but I think those numbers probably confirm that there is no significant interest in the establishment of UK aires.

Excellent response GJH. Sewer networks can also be very complex, you cant just add half a dozen tanks of RV slurry without evaluating and modifying the networks. Could involve a number of miles of new pipework, or the installation of a new cesspit.

 

[GJH]

i agree with what you say graham . but i know i have put it forward to a few councils locally . unfortunately since the new county council bit as messed it up a bit . it seems cornwall county council are against anything .
but the local parish councils do seem to see it better.

Good for you for talking to councils but the overall problem is that people don't do so - unless it is to whinge and complain. Even when people do make a positive approach they often do so without marshalling their evidence first so fall at the first hurdle when they can;t answer simple questions.

.like i say its already happening . just not official .
might never be official but so long as nobody gets into trouble and is left alone . let it carry on .
there are always a few in any walk of life that can spoil it , but its far better not to punish every one else.
ideally they dont stop what is happening all ready.

Yes, unofficial off-site camping happens already. Yes, some pub landlords &c break the law by allowing people to camp in their car parks. They get away with it when it is kept low key and causes no inconvenience to anyone else. The problem is that there are those who do spoil it by their anti-social behaviour. The only way "not to punish every one else" is to make it official.

as to the construction of the carparks cant help there if they can park in the day then staying the night isnt anymore damaging .

My point was about car parks in general. Large vehicles cannot use the majority of car parks during the day, never mind overnight.

as for habitation .blind eye on that one works.

See points on "official" above.

are the toilets being bused . not really . clean up after use is always ideal. should you splash any about.

Yes, toilets are abused - as documented on the Bexhill thread for a recent example. You and I might clean up after ourselves but there are those who will not.

it definately goes on through out the uk . loads of places dont seem to mind . just dont make it official. i find i can almost always find a nice place to stay . well nice to me anyway .

Again, see points on "official" above.

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[GJH]

Excellent response GJH. Sewer networks can also be very complex, you cant just add half a dozen tanks of RV slurry without evaluating and modifying the networks. Could involve a number of miles of new pipework, or the installation of a new cesspit.

A very good point. Many car parks may not even have foul sewers (or fresh water) anywhere near enough to be convenient.

In Middlesbrough for example (ignoring the fact that few would want to off-site camp there anyway) there are only three car parks with public toilets nearby. They are all multi-storey and, even then, only one toilet is actually located adjacent to the parking.

 

[vwalan]

hi, in answer if there arent any toilets or freshwater then no point in stopping there.
only convieniant places would be sensible . its about using whats already there .
same as the construction . if heavy vehicles arent allowed already then they wont be later.
places could be allowed in certain areas but not all. being sensible comes into it. not just making councils have to do it. compromise from both sides helps .
as to the sewage . yes continual use by onboard tanks could have an effect . but cassette type toilets wouldnt . unless it was a septic tank . cesspits not effected as they dont treat sewage only store it .
its difficult to say have 10 rv s with 300litres of sewage each tipping . but 1o cassettes dont even match one big on board . again sensibly it is much more difficult for on board tank m,homes . cassette porta potty,s its easy.
shiftz , i dont say we should illegally park . you can park in many places legally . as in marazion . it is legal to be there. and you can park over night there are no parking restrictions .
i still say sensible use of places and you get away with it . i personally wpould like to see aires but if its not to be i shant worry . been wilding for most of my life . even before i could drive with family etc . in uk think i have been woke by the police about 4 times and never been asked to move . only in spain and morocco have i been asked to move . once in portugal i think. or maybe twice . once on the algarve and once up at sao lourenco.
as for the clubs they dont have any interest in aires and have in the past openly gone against them . in this world sometimes individuals have to stand up for what they believe in . doing nothing or relieng on others things dont change.
have a nice one, sun shinning lovely here . keep smiling .