Motor klenz warning. (1 Viewer)

[Mark5204]

Hope the OP gets this sorted

All this is the very reason no one else touches my vehicles cleaning or most mechanical things

Thank you

 

[Gorse Hill]

Lovely van, are the windows glass or acrylic and what do you suggest for cleaning to make them look that good
Thks

 

[Charlie]

Lovely van, are the windows glass or acrylic and what do you suggest for cleaning to make them look that good
Thks

Thanks .. Windows are glass.

I use Meguires Last Touch detailing spray. It's awesome on paint bodywork and glass. Even use it in the showers at home ..

LT tops up wax as you use it. On the front windows of the van the rain sheets off better than those expensive proprietary glass sealants you can buy.

It's not cheap at around 30 quid for a U.S. gallon or 4 litres in our money but I buy a trade pack off EBay which is 25 litres for 90 quid. That lasts two years and we have 5 vehicles.

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[Charlie]

In general terms I agree wholeheartedly but I do have to say Warners have always insisted on copies of our public liability insurance for every show, to the point it got boring having o send them the details for EVERY show. As for fitting stuff at shows I have done so, both solar panels and satellite systems but strictly on "dependent on weather" terms, the same applies to refillable gas systems, I often fit them at shows as many funsters will confirm but not in bad weather. One chap got rather upset that I wouldn't fit his refillable system at Newark the other year when it never got above minus 5 with a continuous 30mph gale blowing but I'd rather turn a job down than cause damage to a vehicle because of bad weather.

My advice o the OP would be to contact Warners show dept and make them aware of the issues.
D.

For me the above raises an important point...

To detail a vehicle and by that I mean an in depth proper clean the environment is very important..
If it's too hot the products can dry on the surface as in this case. If it's dusty marring to the lacquer can and will be inflicted.
I went to the show in question and it was fairly hot on the Sunday . Too hot to use wheel cleaners. TFR I would never ever use anyway.

It's clear to see that on this forum we have two outstanding companies in Vanbitz and David Newell both who care more about the reputations they have built than the copper coin. This was enforced when I spoke to Mrs Newell about fitting a solar set up and she immediately advised we actually used the van first then worked out if we needed it.. Our use now dictates we really would not have benifitted from the outlay.. So in effect money not wasted .

The problem as I see it in the valeting and detailing world is its way to easy to set up with a bucket and sponge and claim to be an expert. Little knowledge is needed other than how to convince someone you can do the job. Mmmm

I may be able to help the OP of this thread. I see he lives in Bristol ? So not a million miles from me. So when we return from France if he wants to pop over with the vehicle I will take a look and see what can be done. It will have to be to suit me time wise though. My time and advice is free but I would need it to be to suit me..

What would really help would be a few pictures ? Close ups if possible ? Post them up here so all can see as this may just help others in the future ?

 

[jezport]

My last MH came with a receipt for a Fiamma awning fitted (at a Show) two months prior to my purchase. It was fitted to the vertical side of the van so only the 'normal' brackets were needed - none that were specific to the van. In the event the 'fitter' had pop-riveted a length of caravan awing rail to the side of the van, hooked the Fiamma awning into it, then drilled through the awning box (below the roll) and the side of the van for mounting bolts. The inevitable happened: the weight of the partly-extended awning pulled out the pop-rivets. At the extreme front & rear of the van (where plywood was used within the walls) water entered the rivet holes thus rotting the wood. The aluminium shape formed as the rivets pulled out was a perfect water collector. All for the sake of 4 correct mounting plates.

Who fitted it? It would be good for members to know.

 

[Jim]

Who fitted it? It would be good for members to know.

I'd like to know too, but I think it would be wrong to publicly damn someone on the strength of a second hand receipt. We don't really know the circumstances. The previous owner might have fitted themselves, or made other requests that made normal fitting impossible.

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[Mark5204]

I may be able to help the OP of this thread. I see he lives in Bristol ? So not a million miles from me. So when we return from France if he wants to pop over with the vehicle I will take a look and see what can be done. It will have to be to suit me time wise though. My time and advice is free but I would need it to be to suit me..

What would really help would be a few pictures ? Close ups if possible ? Post them up here so all can see as this may just help others in the future ?[/QUOTE]

 

[Mark5204]

I may be able to help the OP of this thread. I see he lives in Bristol ? So not a million miles from me. So when we return from France if he wants to pop over with the vehicle I will take a look and see what can be done. It will have to be to suit me time wise though. My time and advice is free but I would need it to be to suit me..

What would really help would be a few pictures ? Close ups if possible ? Post them up here so all can see as this may just help others in the future ?

[/QUOTE]

Thank you very much. That's a kind offer of help. Perhaps you would pm me when you return from France and we could try to arrange a meet.

 

[tonyidle]

I'd like to know too, but I think it would be wrong to publicly damn someone on the strength of a second hand receipt. We don't really know the circumstances. The previous owner might have fitted themselves, or made other requests that made normal fitting impossible.

It's moot anyway - the MH was sold by me two years ago & all the paperwork went with it. The rot in the plywood was terrible - I removed it from the inside, replaced it by cutting and jointing two layers of thinner plywood because to do it in one piece was impossible without removing a lot of furniture. My repair was successful and I had the van around ten years without any other damp issues. It did take a lot of time though. The awning was re-fitted with the correct brackets and gave no more trouble.

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[Mark5204]

Still no conclusion to Damage caused by Motor Klenz. Also Thank you to the guys who've pm,d.

 

[Mark5204]

Can anyone please supply contact details for Show organisers.

 

[Mark5204]

Hope the OP gets this sorted

All this is the very reason no one else touches my vehicles cleaning or most mechanical things

Yes lesson learnt. Would never use them again.

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[TheBig1]

Can anyone please supply contact details for Show organisers.

from my understanding the show organisers insurance is to cover the actual show etc. and any exhibitors tradespeople should have their own liability insurance. notifying the organisers may mean they blacklist the business from future events but doubt they will be willing or able to get your van fixed

its a bit like going to a dealerships or other business's landlord. your contract was and remains with the business or individual that worked on your van

as said before, and i have done this personally, solicitors letter first then small claims court if they dont pay up. once issued with court papers, most businesses will pay up rather than risk losing. if it does go to court then its just you, the judge and the other guy in an office. the judge will read the details of the case before you go in and ask you a few questions in the room. given your explanation, its a very simple case of negligence.

may take a few weeks to be heard but you will get the money to pay a decent business to fix your van. if they lose and dont pay, you go back to the court and the court will arrange a bailiff to visit and bill them for the extra charges on top

one of my visits to the small claims court was for a bodged respray on a camper van i owned at the time. i had taken photos of the problems and obtained 2 quotes to correct them. the judge took 5 minutes and found in my favour ordering a full refund which easily paid to get it sorted properly. the business refused to pay until the bailiff was instructed. i was then paid cash same day

 

[Mark5204]

from my understanding the show organisers insurance is to cover the actual show etc. and any exhibitors tradespeople should have their own liability insurance. notifying the organisers may mean they blacklist the business from future events but doubt they will be willing or able to get your van fixed

its a bit like going to a dealerships or other business's landlord. your contract was and remains with the business or individual that worked on your van

as said before, and i have done this personally, solicitors letter first then small claims court if they dont pay up. once issued with court papers, most businesses will pay up rather than risk losing. if it does go to court then its just you, the judge and the other guy in an office. the judge will read the details of the case before you go in and ask you a few questions in the room. given your explanation, its a very simple case of negligence.

may take a few weeks to be heard but you will get the money to pay a decent business to fix your van. if they lose and dont pay, you go back to the court and the court will arrange a bailiff to visit and bill them for the extra charges on top

one of my visits to the small claims court was for a bodged respray on a camper van i owned at the time. i had taken photos of the problems and obtained 2 quotes to correct them. the judge took 5 minutes and found in my favour ordering a full refund which easily paid to get it sorted properly. the business refused to pay until the bailiff was instructed. i was then paid cash same day

Thank you for reply and totally agree. We understand that no claim could be aimed at the organisers and certainly have no intention of that.
We feel we would like to make them aware of issues and advise on a issue that has arisen regarding insurance.

 

[Jim]

What is the state of play here. Are they saying they will fix it? Denying responsibility? Doing nothing?

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[Mark5204]

What is the state of play here. Are they saying they will fix it? Denying responsibility? Doing nothing?

Hi Jim.
No to be fair they are not and never have denied responsibility. The problem seems to be because of the age of the van the decals are no longer available. Sign writers don't really seem to feel they can reproduce the originals.

The problem really is failure to agree on a way forward and there is no communication from them unless I initiate it.

They still refuse to provide insurance details also for reasons at the moment I will not disclose on here pending legal action.

We have had enough now we are away next week but will start court action the following week.

 

[Jim]

Not sure where you are in your dealings with them but I would suggest before you go down the legal path you write to them. Outline the damage they have done and tell them exactly what you want them to do to put it right. Give them a reasonable time frame to achieve it. If they fail to meet your requirement; get three quotes from others. (You will find companies to cut the vinyl) and start a small claim. Best of luck

 

[Zains Pops]

Before going down the legal route be very careful. Be sure the guy your sueing is who he says he is, is he a company or sole trader. Do you have the exact address of his registered office or home if sole trader and does he have any money or fairly liquid assets. You can easily win in court and then find it impossible to recover your loss and costs as he has no money. Blood out of a stone comes to mind.
During many years in business I rarely had a successful outcome from the county court route.
Best of luck to resolving this without any undue aggro or stress

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[Theonlysue]

By law they have to have Public liability insurance, and have to give you their details.
Speak to trading standards.

 

[Zains Pops]

By law they have to have Public liability insurance, and have to give you their details.
Speak to trading standards.

Your assuming cowboys are always the good guys. There are plenty who don't give a stuff about the law and operate on the assumption that no one asks until it goes wrong then the just ride off into the sunset.

 

[Charlie]

from my understanding the show organisers insurance is to cover the actual show etc. and any exhibitors tradespeople should have their own liability insurance. notifying the organisers may mean they blacklist the business from future events but doubt they will be willing or able to get your van fixed

its a bit like going to a dealerships or other business's landlord. your contract was and remains with the business or individual that worked on your van

as said before, and i have done this personally, solicitors letter first then small claims court if they dont pay up. once issued with court papers, most businesses will pay up rather than risk losing. if it does go to court then its just you, the judge and the other guy in an office. the judge will read the details of the case before you go in and ask you a few questions in the room. given your explanation, its a very simple case of negligence.

may take a few weeks to be heard but you will get the money to pay a decent business to fix your van. if they lose and dont pay, you go back to the court and the court will arrange a bailiff to visit and bill them for the extra charges on top

one of my visits to the small claims court was for a bodged respray on a camper van i owned at the time. i had taken photos of the problems and obtained 2 quotes to correct them. the judge took 5 minutes and found in my favour ordering a full refund which easily paid to get it sorted properly. the business refused to pay until the bailiff was instructed. i was then paid cash same day

I think we should think what liability insurance covers.....

I've been in business for 30 odd years and have had proper quality PL insurance all of that time.

PL insurance covers the accidents. Perhaps dropping something on someone or someone tripping over when negotiating where work is taking place. By that I mean a member of the public not the workforce.

What it will not cover is bad workmanship. That's not what PL insurance covers.

I think this whole thread is running away slightly. We have seen no pictures of the damage. Until it's been looked at by someone who knows the score it's just a wee bit unfair to bury this trader.

Litigation is complex.
Firstly the plaintiff has to prove the damage was done by the trader . The trader may say the damage was there before he cleaned the van and his cleaning just exposed it.

This is not a simple easy to prove defect like say a duff cooker or appliance.

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[Judge Mental]

Don't think anyone trying to bury the lad...surely he has appeared incapable of dealing with it in an appropriate and timely fashion.

After my very bad experience at a show.. I wouldn't get any service varried out at one!

 

[Mark5204]

I think we should think what liability insurance covers.....

I've been in business for 30 odd years and have had proper quality PL insurance all of that time.

PL insurance covers the accidents. Perhaps dropping something on someone or someone tripping over when negotiating where work is taking place. By that I mean a member of the public not the workforce.

What it will not cover is bad workmanship. That's not what PL insurance covers.

I think this whole thread is running away slightly. We have seen no pictures of the damage. Until it's been looked at by someone who knows the score it's just a wee bit unfair to bury this trader.

Litigation is complex.
Firstly the plaintiff has to prove the damage was done by the trader . The trader may say the damage was there before he cleaned the van and his cleaning just exposed it.

This is not a simple easy to prove defect like say a duff cooker or appliance.

To be fair no one has set out to " bury the lad " as the header implied it's a warning of a very bad experience with a trader.

If you read the thread properly you will note that I have expressed the trader has never failed to admit liability.

We have witness details from individuals at the show who saw the damage.

As for pictures of course we have pictures but putting them up here.... What would that prove? Why do you need to see pictures? It's simply advising those who wish to take note of the issues we had, if you wish to make the same mistake as we did please feel free.

Your remark regarding "someone who knows the score" it has been appraised by a local Dealership.

We too are in business and know all about liability insurance.

My feeling is that to be honest you have missed the point a little.

A warning is simply that , it's ultimately down to the consumer to decide if they employ the services of s trader. However it's sometimes useful to see reviews to enable us to reach a informed decision. Potentially it could save thousands of pounds.

 

[Charlie]

I haven't missed the point. All I'm saying is it's a delicate situation and litigation could be complex.. You would need to prove without any doubt that the company in question caused the damage.
Please don't misunderstand I'm on your side here. It's awful when something happens like this. I'm actually gutted for you.

Pictures ? Well for a start we can see exactly what the damage is. This would help immensely with building an idea on how to correct the damage. Without pictures it's complete and utter guesswork.

By ; Bury: I mean publicity like this can only do harm.. IF it's just and I have no reason to think otherwise then fine but tread carefully ..

If you know about PL insurance you will know cover will not include foolish use of incorrect products. That would be down to the contractor or business owner to make good.

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[TheBig1]

if you run a business that could damage a customer's property, you should have professional liability insurance as well as public liability

as for this being unfair to the business/trader, they have the onus on them to correct the damage they caused or immediately supply details of their insurance. The fact that they have refused to give these details of insurance implies that they dont have any

It is in absolutely no way complicated under english law to prove liability in a case like this and 3 estimates to repair the damage will be seen as sufficient in the small claims court. To avoid confusion you should claim off "the business owner's name, trading as MotorKlenz" covers both eventualities.

as said its not expensive to use the small claims court. last time i used it was £80 + any solicitors letters which you can add to the amount of the claim anyway

 

[Charlie]

if you run a business that could damage a customer's property, you should have professional liability insurance as well as public liability

as for this being unfair to the business/trader, they have the onus on them to correct the damage they caused or immediately supply details of their insurance. The fact that they have refused to give these details of insurance implies that they dont have any

It is in absolutely no way complicated under english law to prove liability in a case like this and 3 estimates to repair the damage will be seen as sufficient in the small claims court. To avoid confusion you should claim off "the business owner's name, trading as MotorKlenz" covers both eventualities.

as said its not expensive to use the small claims court. last time i used it was £80 + any solicitors letters which you can add to the amount of the claim anyway

I'm a little unsure a person sole trader or whoever can insure against blunders ? Professional liability is not something I'm conversant with but I would bet anyone claiming would be in a minefield. Perhaps the word "Professional" says they should be at least in this case professional enough to know that TFR is a corrosive product and has severe consequences if used incorrectly.

Proving Easy ?. What if matey simply says he never caused the damage ? That by cleaning the vehicle its exposed the problem that was already there ? Or just says the problem was there anyway and hes was just cleaning and trying to improve it ?

If there are detailed pictures before and after then that's much better . If there are can we see them ?

I completely agree that if insurance details are being refused something could be wrong.

 

[Mark5204]

Can I just clarify for one final time. Jason has at no time failed to admit liability. He knows and accepts what went wrong. It's the getting it sorted out is actually the problem.
The original graphics are no longer available and numerous sign writers don't want to take the job on as it needs to be drawn by hand.

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[Charlie]

Can I just clarify for one final time. Jason has at no time failed to admit liability. He knows and accepts what went wrong. It's the getting it sorted out is actually the problem.
The original graphics are no longer available and numerous sign writers don't want to take the job on as it needs to be drawn by hand.

Google Stourport Sign Studio. Stewart the owner has top end graphic equipment. He can produce graphics from photographs . If he can't do it nobody can.

Tell him Chuck sent you. He will know. Chuck is my nick name from my Martial Arts competition days .

 

[TheBig1]

there is also a semi retired graphics artist on here too that has helped several members. think he may be away for a few weeks though in his van

 

[Deleted member 29692]

By law they have to have Public liability insurance, and have to give you their details.

Neither of those statements are actually 100% correct.

The exact requirements for PL vary from field to field. In a lot of areas self-insurance is acceptable, if not advisable. Secondly nobody is under any obligation to pass on insurance details. It's up to you whether you involve your insurers. You have every right to settle the matter yourself if you choose to.

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