Motor home for commercial use

[sospan]

Hi all,

Just found this site after a day of banging head against said wall .......

It started with a simple call to two of our largest motor home dealers in South Wales "My daughter has a craft business and she goes to Agricultural shows and events across the country and needs a motor home for business" Simple enough. Then we go down the payload question (https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/payload.211974/) "Not a problem sir, we have some with 400 kg pay load and you can get them modified to carry another 200 kg. Drive the point home to the dealer that I am 100 kg, my daughters partner is around the same and even our dog is 80kg! let alone adding in the products and show equipment "You will be fine sir, sold hundreds of motor homes to businesses over the years with no issues!"

We then ask if we buy a new vehicle can they arrange for the vehicle to be classed as a "living van" and a tachograph fitted. "Why would you need that !" we then go down the route that because the vehicle is now over 3,500 kg limit and because we are transporting goods for material gain it has to be registered as a goods vehicle with a Tachograph and our Vehicle operator licence. "That's all news to me" says the sales guy. click, call ended by us

We even contacted some "re plating" companies - you need to decide on your vehicle, take a picture of the VIN plate and then contact us and we will tell you home much payload we can fit. Ok, I asked from your experience which recent vehicles have you upgraded to carry around 1,000 kg payload. We can't give you that information because every vehicle is different. Yes, I know that but which manufacturer and chassis type have you upgraded recently to carry a more significant load - same answer. And apparently according to one "re-plater" it is quite tricky to fit a tachograph to something like a Fiat/Ford/Iveco cab despite having a local firm fitting them for £450!

Fortunately, I came across you forum and found the post above regarding Payload and came across the thread above that mentions the Benimar range which on an initial examination look ideal with 1,000 kg payload and also non white fabric seats!

Anybody have some other suggestions other than Benimar to consider ?

Thanks
Sospan
PS At most events we attend VOSA also turn up during take down and inevitably there are lot of vehicles both domestic and commercial served with prohibition notices either for weight or defects. So we have to be within the rules or we wouldn't be going home without leaving something or someone behind!

 

[Jim]

Hi
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[Clipgate]

Your quite correct in your assertion regarding classification to a living van, and the need for a Tacho. Small point VOSA became DVSA, I have a little inside knowledge!
Most of the vehicle conversations are intended for the leisure market and built of light commercial chassis.
I note that your have an operator licence, you do not state which.
However have you considered a purpose built trailer, ( suspect that you have) no doubt the disadvantages are obvious, however they maybe out weighed by the legal implications of none compliance!
Dare I say a purpose built unit on a commercial chassis is a option worthy of consideration, or a horse box with living facilities adapted. I have seen some very nicely appointed vehicles, with the load area partition removed and refitted with a showroom or in one case a mobile workshop
Whatever way you decide the costs are significant, and only you can make the business case.

 

[The Wino]

From the threads I've seen a pvc like a globecar on a heavy fiat chassis will be the most likely to have a good payload once up graded and as a standard fiat cab I would have thought easiest to fit a tacho.
I don't know about benimars so much I think the reason theyre frequently up plated is the original paload is so paltry. The trailer idea sounds like a good one as it means that the MH stays standard on resale.
Are you fitting the tacho etc so it counts as a business expense for vat and tax? If so I would check the figures first as MH depreciation is pretty low it might not save that much in the end as there presumably will be vat chargeable then on disposal and it will be a gain in future years. Any private use would be a taxable benefit trips ought probably to be logged in case of any future questions. It might need checking with the accountant

 

[Jamesh]

How much is your budget?

If high then a Motorsport or horsebox manufacturer should be able to sort you out.

If low then how about a minibus? Cheaper than vans ATM.

Something like a transit 460 or Lt46? Or sprinter 515??

They have a fairly generous payload.
You can fit then our with a generous garage mine is 6x5 X3. Approx.

Cheers James

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[AndyPK]

Welcome from Ciren!
I assume that your daughter has a C1 licence, or does someone else drive?

 

[flatpackchicken]

A

 

[sospan]

Your quite correct in your assertion regarding classification to a living van, and the need for a Tacho. Small point VOSA became DVSA, I have a little inside knowledge!
Most of the vehicle conversations are intended for the leisure market and built of light commercial chassis.
I note that your have an operator licence, you do not state which.
However have you considered a purpose built trailer, ( suspect that you have) no doubt the disadvantages are obvious, however they maybe out weighed by the legal implications of none compliance!
Dare I say a purpose built unit on a commercial chassis is a option worthy of consideration, or a horse box with living facilities adapted. I have seen some very nicely appointed vehicles, with the load area partition removed and refitted with a showroom or in one case a mobile workshop
Whatever way you decide the costs are significant, and only you can make the business case.

Thanks for the response

We had considered a trailer designed for retail use - turn up, drop the sides down start trading. However, many of them aren't disability friendly requiring steps up and down or contrived ramps. Plus many events require you to use their trade stands/ shedding.

The purpose built Motor home route based on an Iveco or chassis is one option we considered but it is finding a reputable coach builder (so many bad ones down here in S.Wales!) is quite difficult and also could turn one around fairly quickly as we have events up to 24th December. Naturally , insulated as well as heated.

We had considered the horsebox option but finding one which can accommodate and transport 4/5 people with a kitchen/shower and proper toilet (not a screwed down porta potty) and not be the size of a furniture van is quite difficult. The ones that meet the spec

The budget and accounting is the interesting thing. It costs us a lot to attend events and it will get used heavily from May to September then again later in the year. Assuming we would have it for 5 years and is a "commercial" vehicle we can claim the VAT back and then depreciate it. Theoretically a budget £90,000 has £15k VAT taking in to £75k, assuming a residual of £25k after 5 years. That is £10k per year and works out around £60 per night for 4 people. Plus not having to use the event toilets and showers which wife and daughter would greatly appreciate!

 

[sospan]

Welcome from Ciren!
I assume that your daughter has a C1 licence, or does someone else drive?

I have the full set but my daughter needs her licence upgraded which isn't an issue - apart from the inflated fees now

 

[eddie]

It is hard to get a solution that ticks all of the boxes. We ended up getting Benimar to make us a bespoke motorhome to be used at the shows and used used our own motorhomes (any staff that didn't have one stayed in hotels)

Its a shame really as we have decided that we won't be considering the NEC (only show we do) till 2023 so the unit has sat in the car park since 2019

Funny times

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[sospan]

From the threads I've seen a pvc like a globecar on a heavy fiat chassis will be the most likely to have a good payload once up graded and as a standard fiat cab I would have thought easiest to fit a tacho.
I don't know about benimars so much I think the reason theyre frequently up plated is the original paload is so paltry. The trailer idea sounds like a good one as it means that the MH stays standard on resale.
Are you fitting the tacho etc so it counts as a business expense for vat and tax? If so I would check the figures first as MH depreciation is pretty low it might not save that much in the end as there presumably will be vat chargeable then on disposal and it will be a gain in future years. Any private use would be a taxable benefit trips ought probably to be logged in case of any future questions. It might need checking with the accountant

With most of the MH's if we put me, a couple of mates and the dog in the vehicle we would be overweight !

Everything we fit will be a business expense. Interesting that if we fit things (e.g. bigger tv, awning or other goodies) pre registration they become "part of" the vehicle and included as the business cost. If I fit a bigger tv later - it isn't unless I need for training, presentation etc.....

With the tachometer all the journeys would be logged automatically so it will all be transparent as to what would be business and personal. However, my daughter sells "sea glass" items which can mainly only be collected at the seaside ......

 

[sospan]

It is hard to get a solution that ticks all of the boxes. We ended up getting Benimar to make us a bespoke motorhome to be used at the shows and used used our own motorhomes (any staff that didn't have one stayed in hotels)

Its a shame really as we have decided that we won't be considering the NEC (only show we do) till 2023 so the unit has sat in the car park since 2019

Funny times

Did the Benimar work well ? If I may ask - what conversions did they do for you ?

Inevitably whatever MH we get, will get a hammering. Part of the problem with the more high end MH's is that they have light coloured and delicate fabric everywhere. Taking down the stand, awning and unhitching in the British Climate means that no matter how careful you are it is going to be tracked inside.

It is the cost of Hotels and the inconvenience of "camping" on site that has prompted the urgent need. A lot of the events we do allow us to park a vehicle behind the trade stand. So it could be caravan or a van. but not both. Plus many events you can't run generators and electrical hook ups are £65+ on top of the camping fee (£14 behind stand or £50). Most people decide to sleep either in their trade stand or just behind for security.

 

[eddie]

Did the Benimar work well ? If I may ask - what conversions did they do for you ?

Inevitably whatever MH we get, will get a hammering. Part of the problem with the more high end MH's is that they have light coloured and delicate fabric everywhere. Taking down the stand, awning and unhitching in the British Climate means that no matter how careful you are it is going to be tracked inside.

It is the cost of Hotels and the inconvenience of "camping" on site that has prompted the urgent need. A lot of the events we do allow us to park a vehicle behind the trade stand. So it could be caravan or a van. but not both. Plus many events you can't run generators and electrical hook ups are £65+ on top of the camping fee (£14 behind stand or £50). Most people decide to sleep either in their trade stand or just behind for security.

Yes it does work well. Basically the 2/3rds of the side opens up, and we did with a bed or a dinette, but it has a shower room (used for leaflets) heating, hot water, air conditioning solar fridge freezer, pretty much everything etc the windows

 

[dunnah01]

Any motorhome on the Fiat or Alko Maxi chassis will probably have 750-1000kg payload so it's really about finding one with a layout that works for the business and then getting the tacho etc fitted separately

 

[Carpmart]

As others have suggested, the Motorsport centric Motorhome is what you want to look at.

As an example, I’ve got an RS Endeavour with a very large garage and plenty of payload… worth looking into this genre of vehicle.

It also has a full length GH Awning, which is a very stable and high quality fully enclosed awning of approx 7m x 4m giving you a fantastic trading area too.