MoT and stopped by police. (1 Viewer)

[Emmit]

1)A person who uses on a road at any time, or causes or permits to be so used, a motor vehicle to which this section applies, and as respects which no test certificate has been issued within the appropriate period before that time, is guilty of an offence.

Road Traffic Act 1988

www.legislation.gov.uk

Do you know if " uses" is defined or if there is a legal precident anywhere? Thanks

Yes it is defined.
So is "Cause to be used" and "Permit to be used."
I could explain but I respectfully decline to do so.

 

[Northernraider]

Yes it is defined.
So is "Cause to be used" and "Permit to be used."
I could explain but I respectfully decline to do so.

That usually means that you can't explain but want to appear that you can its ok we understand

 

[Emmit]

That usually means that you can't explain but want to appear that you can its ok we understand

No it doesn't.
What it means is that it is available online.
I spent 30yrs (minus a couple of weeks before I was taught it) enforcing the above three elements to that (and other) offences.
I used to read Stones Justices Manual for fun, and I don't mean here.
There may be some finer points of legislation that have, inevitably fallen off the end of my own personal hardrive and other legislation has been superceded since I retired but I think (for instance) I know more about Law than non retirees from Police service do.

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[Silver-Fox]

All done above board, he pleaded guilty and paid his fine and costs out of sale proceeds.
He had been done driving his car and thought he wouldn’t get caught riding a bike

More likely to get stopped riding a bike me thinks.

The Daughter once got stopped on her ZXR 400 when riding through Wales and out with her boyfriend, he was on a GSXR 1000.

No reason for the stop, not speeding and bike all legal.

So plod looked around bike asked loads of questions then said he could give her a ticket.

She asked what for and he just said he could
I do wonder about some that are in the job

 

[Northernraider]

No it doesn't.
What it means is that it is available online.
I spent 30yrs (minus a couple of weeks before I was taught it) enforcing the above three elements to that (and other) offences.
I used to read Stones Justices Manual for fun, and I don't mean here.
There may be some finer points of legislation that have, inevitably fallen off the end of my own personal hardrive and other legislation has been superceded since I retired but I think (for instance) I know more about Law than non retirees from Police service do.

My experience has been your average bobby doesn't know the law ...lawyers do which is why so many things are thrown out of court.

They usually can recommend the best donut shops though

 

[David and Sally]

More likely to get stopped riding a bike me thinks.

The Daughter once got stopped on her ZXR 400 when riding through Wales and out with her boyfriend, he was on a GSXR 1000.

No reason for the stop, not speeding and bike all legal.

So plod looked around bike asked loads of questions then said he could give her a ticket.

She asked what for and he just said he could
I do wonder about some that are in the job

She could have said go on then, then you will have to explain to the Supt why the ticket was cancelled under appeal. But that is a lot of work just to satisfy an over important officer.
There are bad apples in every barrel.

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[Emmit]

My experience has been your average bobby doesn't know the law ...lawyers do which is why so many things are thrown out of court.

They usually can recommend the best donut shops though

It's nice to know you have met some bobbies, average or not.

 

[Silver-Fox]

She could have said go on then, then you will have to explain to the Supt why the ticket was cancelled under appeal. But that is a lot of work just to satisfy an over important officer.
Take his collar number and put in a complaint.

I did suggest that to her when she got back.

In fairness she just didn’t need the hassle of the stop or any issues once home.

I have no issue being stopped if there is something wrong or the national computer is having a bad day

In my many years of driving I have yet to come across an officer that hasn’t been reasonable.

But then I don’t jump out of the vehicle giving it large, that gets you no where and would pee me off if I was a copper.

 

[Paulypaul]

I can assure you, abnormal load movements are rarely (if ever) mentioned at shift briefings.......unless you are Traffic and you are directly involved.

Far more important information that needs a mention.

But nevertheless, if the pc had asked to see a notification one would have assumed that he had a genuine reason for the stop, even to just make sure that I was compliant, regardless of whether it was mentioned in a briefing or not.

But he never alluded to the notification or showed and interest as to whether I was compliant with regards to drivers hours etc.

So as far as I am concerned, it was an unnecessary stop which exposed his ignorance. Why get involved in something he clearly knew nothing about, other than to make a nuisance of himself?

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[Sapper520]

But nevertheless, if the pc had asked to see a notification one would have assumed that he had a genuine reason for the stop, even to just make sure that I was compliant, regardless of whether it was mentioned in a briefing or not.

But he never alluded to the notification or showed and interest as to whether I was compliant with regards to drivers hours etc.

So as far as I am concerned, it was an unnecessary stop which exposed his ignorance. Why get involved in something he clearly knew nothing about, other than to make a nuisance of himself?

Done your job and done his job.......

 

[DJA]

Many many years ago I was sat in my car outside a parade of shops waiting for my Mother to finish her shopping . I noticed that a Police car was driven backwards and forwards passed the shops at about 30 MPH although the speed limit for the 3 lane road was 40MPH. If anyone passed him he would stop them.

Later I was driving passed the shops and he was doing 30mph and I passed him with no cars coming in the opposite direction at all. You guessed it he stopped me. His first comment was Your in a hurry to which I replied that I was not as I was on my way to X school to play Badminton and the club did not start for a little while and that I did not believe I had exceeded the speed limit whilst overtaking him.. He looked around the car and could find not issue to latch onto and after some more comments about being in a rush.said I could go. I thanked him and the smile disappeared from his face when said I would let his senior officer know I had been stopped when I saw him at the Police Badminton Club which was where I was going.

When I explained what had been happening to the Senior Officer he was not impressed at the image of the Police that was being displayed.

 

[Northernraider]

When I explained what had been happening to the Senior Officer he was not impressed at the image of the Police that was being displayed.

But I'll bet he did nothing about it

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[DJA]

But I'll bet he did nothing about it

He did have a quiet word.

 

[Northernraider]

He did have a quiet word.

Aye so he said

 

[Plumb]

Had a phone call from dealer to say scheduled 24 month service due on my car 11th March ,not what essential journeys will be in place then ,so the question is will I be able to take to dealer 15 miles each way ?

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[tacr2man]

I have to agree that there are some "unreasonable Cops" as I have worked with a few . BUT untill you have worked in a enforcement role , you have no idea how many " unreasonable MOP " there are out there . It can wear a bit thin for even the most easy going. JMHE

 

[gus-lopez]

Funnily enough, years back I purchased a large excavator from a firm in Bristol.
The lorry had to have a movement order that took ages to sort it then got diverted about 70 miles out of its direct route due to road works.

I turned up on site but a month or so later got stolen at about 3-4 am in the morning never to be seen again

Reminds me of the weighbridge being moved as abnormal load at night & parked up during day. Left in a lay by & when they returned at night it had gone.

Some people are questioning if motorhome hab checks or servicing is essential even if it does help keep the industry going. But my question still stands. Is moving a boat essential? What is the owner going to do with it when it gets to where it’s going? What can’t wait until covid is over?

It is business & doesn't come under "essential"

If you are pulled up and found to have 4 defective / bald tyres you could lose your licence, 3 points per tyre

& under the old endorsement system you would get the same & 4 endorsements when 3 required you to be banned .But any offences dealt with at tyhe same sitting . i.e 4 bald tyres, no insurance, no mot , defective horn etc<, only ever counted as one endorsement as they were all on the same date.
When they changed from 3 endorsements = ban to 12 points = ban it was sold as " 3 points for speeding means you can be caught 4 x now before being banned"
I was just wondering whether the same applied to multiple offences at one court sitting now? Sounds like it doesn't

But if an officer sees fit to stop a truck with a boat on the back and check into it I see no problem.

Why would he think that an abnormal load with an escort was out on a jolly?

But moving them around the country right now is dubious I think.

It is business.
If we follow your & my wife's logic to the Nth degree no vehicle except food deliveries should be taking place? My wife can't comprehend how the lad next door goes to collect trailers in Germany;France,Belgium,Holland 6 returns with them here to be sold.Most are actually sold prior to even being collected.
Do you think everything like that should stop if so we might as well give up now as no one will ever work again.

o if I sold my motorhome to someone in another part of the country would moving it to the new owner be an essential journey?

Yes no problem as long as it is being done by someone who is transporting it the same as the boat was & my neighbour's trailers.

But if you take this to it’s limit everything would be justifiable

Not for people who aren't actually doing it as "work" I.e you & me.
Anything being done by a peasant in free time comes under "essential" anything classed as work = ok & doesn't.

he wasn't a white cap,

I haven't seen one of them for some years?

 

[Coastal Cruiser.]

Had a few run in with the cops when I was in my younger tear around days

Years later when I was into Trials riding one of the members was a police sergeant and I was asked if I would like to ride the Police 2 day trial as a guest, yes please says I as it was on cracking bit of ground.
Must say best bunch of lads you could mingle with, they came from most parts of the UK for the weekend and partied hard on the Saturday night then rode again Sunday.
Did the event about 5 times before it got stopped

As in all walks of life you get nice people and tossers, unfortunately you mostly always hear about the tossers!!!

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[Nigel P]

My experience has been your average bobby doesn't know the law ...lawyers do which is why so many things are thrown out of court.

They usually can recommend the best donut shops though

But the lawyers are the ones who take the cases to court! They approve the files and prosecute not the police.

 

[Northernraider]

But the lawyers are the ones who take the cases to court! They approve the files and prosecute not the police.

No its usually the procurator fiscal
On the word of the police report

And as i said many are thrown out or not pursued because its b.s

 

[Nigel P]

No its usually the procurator fiscal
On the word of the police report

And as i said many are thrown out or not pursued because its b.s

Apologies, I was referring to England/Wales.

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[Paulypaul]

Apologies, I was referring to England/Wales.

Even so, the police present a file to the cps when they consider that they have grounds to get a charge. The CPS (lawyers) decide the merits of whether the case is strong enough or whether its in the public interest? By the time the CPS get the evidential bundle, the Police have already decided that they have enough to charge and they just hope that the CPS see it their way.

Unfortunately there seems to be a high percentage of cases that the Police and subsequently the CPS, deem to be charge worthy, even if it isn't. I wonder if that's where the phrase "brothers in law" comes from?

 

[Sapper520]

Even so, the police present a file to the cps when they consider that they have grounds to get a charge. The CPS (lawyers) decide the merits of whether the case is strong enough or whether its in the public interest? By the time the CPS get the evidential bundle, the Police have already decided that they have enough to charge and they just hope that the CPS see it their way.

Unfortunately there seems to be a high percentage of cases that the Police and subsequently the CPS, deem to be charge worthy, even if it isn't. I wonder if that's where the phrase "brothers in law" comes from?

You’ve done both jobs as well then?

 

[billym]

Yes it is defined.
So is "Cause to be used" and "Permit to be used."
I could explain but I respectfully decline to do so.

Thanks. ( For nothing)

Can anyone else help.
I am after a definition of the word ' uses' in relation to having a vehicle parked on a road with no MOT. I can't find it online.


1)A person who uses on a road at any time, or causes or permits to be so used, a motor vehicle to which this section applies, and as respects which no test certificate has been issued within the appropriate period before that time, is guilty of an offence.

Road Traffic Act 1988​

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[Sapper520]

Thanks. ( For nothing)

Can anyone else help.
I am after a definition of the word ' uses' in relation to having a vehicle parked on a road with no MOT. I can't find it online.


1)A person who uses on a road at any time, or causes or permits to be so used, a motor vehicle to which this section applies, and as respects which no test certificate has been issued within the appropriate period before that time, is guilty of an offence.

Road Traffic Act 1988​

Billy,

Parking a vehicle on a road without an MOT is an absolute offence. It’s got to have an MOT just to be there (plus tax and Insurance of course). I’m not sure why you need to define ‘Uses’. The very fact it is on a road is Uses.

Just trying to be helpful.

 

[Paulypaul]

You’ve done both jobs as well then?

No, I've not been a lawyer and certainly not been a copper. However, I speak from first hand experience (not hearsay) of how sometimes the judicial system works, or doesn't.

But, as someone mentioned earlier, there are good people and bad people in every job, its just that in these particular jobs, the bad ones can have a devastating impact on innocent people. Allegedly

 

[Sandancers]

I too have approached people who's vehicles ive been interested in etc ....its not that i objected to

Is it you who keeps knocking on people's doors and asking "Would you be wanting to sell that now?"

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[Northernraider]

Is it you who keeps knocking on people's doors and asking "Would you be wanting to sell that now?"

Lol not for a long time

But i bought several motors by doing that ....i even got a couple for free

 

[Nigel P]

Even so, the police present a file to the cps when they consider that they have grounds to get a charge. The CPS (lawyers) decide the merits of whether the case is strong enough or whether its in the public interest? By the time the CPS get the evidential bundle, the Police have already decided that they have enough to charge and they just hope that the CPS see it their way.

Unfortunately there seems to be a high percentage of cases that the Police and subsequently the CPS, deem to be charge worthy, even if it isn't. I wonder if that's where the phrase "brothers in law" comes from?

Statistically over 80% conviction rate at magistrates courts (around 91% for speeding offences)

 

[Northernraider]

Statistically over 80% conviction rate at magistrates courts (around 91% for speeding offences)

Easy targets ...
And easy money

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