MOT and 3.5T plus motorhomes with garage (1 Viewer)

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Jaws

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Tis more or less what I did ( I did not fone but went to a VOSA training centre ) and they are very approachable folk ( at least I found them so )
The chaps I spoke to quoted chapter and verse and while they said 'rules is rules', they too thought it was bloody daft .. I got the distinct feeling if they could have got round the issue they would have been VERY happy to do so !
 

wireman

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Jaws can you remember the chapter and verse they quoted from?

Dave, oh so I can spend my precious time doing your dirty work and thats OK is it? You say I am the only one bothered and throw in the off the cuff 'let us know when you have the answer'. Why are you so bothered about knowing the answer when you are so sure that you already have it (according to your comments). You want me to use my valuable time but you are not prepared to do anything about it yourself...typical. Then you can tell all your customers how much work you have put in to get answers to important questions. Have YOU phoned VOSA yourself yet? or have you let a;ll the good folk on here do it for you since your first post?
 

wireman

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Vosa pointed me to this

' A4.3 Motor Caravans A `motor caravan' is "a motor vehicle (not being a living van) which is constructed or adapted for the carriage of passengers and their effects and which contains, as permanently installed equipment, the facilities which are reasonably necessary for enabling the vehicle to provide mobile living accommodation for its users". Motor caravans are not classed as goods vehicles for MOT test purposes and are therefore in class 4 or 5 depending on their seating capacity but regardless of their size or weight.

A4.4 Living Vans A `living van' is "a vehicle, whether mechanically propelled or not, which is used for living accommodation by one or more persons and which is also used for the carriage of goods or burden which are not needed by such one or more persons for the purpose of their residence in the vehicle". Living vans are classed as goods vehicles and, depending on their weight, are therefore in either class 4 or 7 within the MOT test scheme or are subject to HGV plating and testing.'


and could not clarify further (or were unwilling to). So, it once again comes down to what I thought...it's what the jobsworth who is interprating the paragraphs above thinks they say, not what they say. However I pressed the man at the other end (which he didn't likie very much)

Wjen i questioned the man at vosa a little deeper he started quoting bits of info that are not contained in the above paragraphs and could not point me at any legislation other than the above. When I told him we had a MH that was over 3.5 ton he said thats OK, clas 4 (so far so good) when I said it had a locker big enough to take a scooter he said 'then it must be tested as a goods vehicle because it has space to carry goods (oh dear every MH has to be tested as a goods vehicle then) so I probed further ...... I am disabled so I need to have the scooter to get any distance from the vehicle 'Ah, in that casee you are carrying it to enable you live in the van (his words) so its class 4 ; even if its in the locker at testing time....I ought to point out he also mentioned the word 'adapted' in conjunction with the living van thing which I let slide as I'd got the info I needed for now.


So from the MOT document above and looking at it sensibly it appears that carrying a scooter to enable you to live in the van leaves you at clas 4 test and IMHO anyone who carries a scooter can claim they use it to fetch shopping when the van is parked so is essential to living in it and IT IS THEIR ' EFFECTS' as in para 4.3.
AS I thought it is down to interprepation of words that are really not very clear and as noted before really need arguing in a court of law.


So....what say you now MOT testers?

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wireman

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as long as you tell your customers that someone else found out the reality for you and mention me.....
 
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:thumb::thumb: Its FUN following you guys :thumb::thumb:

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Forestboy

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Quote
' A4.3 Motor Caravans A `motor caravan' is "a motor vehicle (not being a living van) which is constructed or adapted for the carriage of passengers and their effects and which contains, as permanently installed equipment, the facilities which are reasonably necessary for enabling the vehicle to provide mobile living accommodation for its users". Motor caravans are not classed as goods vehicles for MOT test purposes and are therefore in class 4 or 5 depending on their seating capacity but regardless of their size or weight.


So where does it say you cannot carry a motorcycle
 

wireman

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which is constructed or adapted for the carriage of passengers and their effects

actually since it is carrying my effects (in this case a scooter) I can't quite see how they can say what they are saying. Since they are allowing for 'adapted' within their own rules and as they have said 'rules is rule'

My suspicion is that someone needed to prove that their job was actually viable and came up with this new edict and everyone has just taken it on face value that the jobsworth was right without bothering to look at the actual rules.

Now of course they will have to try and defend their corner with viciousness and with all the teeth they have. I can even see new rules coming out forthwith to prove their point. Such is the stupid way we 'run' this country. Rather than just say sorry we got it wrong.
 

Geo

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actually since it is carrying my effects (in this case a scooter) I can't quite see how they can say what they are saying. Since they are allowing for 'adapted' within their own rules and as they have said 'rules is rule'

My suspicion is that someone needed to prove that their job was actually viable and came up with this new edict and everyone has just taken it on face value that the jobsworth was right without bothering to look at the actual rules.

Now of course they will have to try and defend their corner with viciousness and with all the teeth they have. I can even see new rules coming out forthwith to prove their point. Such is the stupid way we 'run' this country. Rather than just say sorry we got it wrong.
That is your opinion and as such carries no weight at any testing station, we have all been given Vosa,s interpritation right or wrong, and that is the version that will apply here
I was hoping that someone would spot the missing words from the rules but so far I havent seen them
The definitions could all stand as written if they insert the phrase "adapted to carry goods FOR GAIN OR REWARD"
That puts it all back into the real world does it not
Geo

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bevo

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over 3.5 ton

the original post was a friendly warning about testing over 3.5 tons,
as stated by other trade members it's what they have been instructed.
so what! we just empty our garages come mot time, it's no big deal is it.
 

wireman

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Sorry Geo but you are wrong. Paragraph 4.3 covers it; my vehicle has been constructed to provide the means to carry my own personal effects and whether VOSA like it or not that includes my scooter and the size of the lockers has nothing to do with it. They are as provided by the manufacturer who produced the vehicle under type approval for a MOTORHOME. Because, if you accept VOSA then the vehicle no longer has type approval because it has become a goods vehicle and therefore needs single vehicle type approval to be used on the road.

They could not provide me with any legislation that would point out where my scooter becomes goods. That says it all. As far as I am concerned if they cannot point to legislation they THEY (VOSA) ARE GIVING AN OPINION just as much as I am.

I fully understand your position and accept it but VOSA are wrong and TBH (again understandable to a degree) you are accepting it even though you know they are wrong. Why won't someone stand up and fight?
 

wireman

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and another question then.....

If I downgrade my van to 3.5 ton then I can carry a scooter in the back and have it tested with the scooter in if I so wish and you will test it because the scooter is not goods because its in a motorhome that is less than 3.5 tons? but not im my 4 tone motorhome?

So all those that have upgraded their vehicles to make them safer are now to be penalised for making them safer if the above is true?


and if true WHERE is there any mention of the weight of the vehicle except to state that it doesn't matter what the weight is of a motorhome.....so how can they discrimjinate between below 3.5 tons and above.

If you are going to accept what VOSA says then at least you will have to levy the same rules on ALL motorhomes....won't you?

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Geo

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Wireman
You appear delusional:RollEyes: I'm never wrong, ask Pammy,
It was novel seeing it in print though for the first time:winky:
Your ranting will have absolutely no effect on the outcome of a test I can assure you.

Please take the time to read my comments in red,if you do you will work out that if those words were put into the equation, then the problem would disappear totally,
I would only refuse to test your motor home as a class4 if it clearly was a workshop or commercial set up, so your little hair dryer on wheels would be OK:thumb:
Geo
 

wireman

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Ranting or not I got the answer I wanted from you......:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:


Your comment
I would only refuse to test your motor home as a class4 if it clearly was a workshop or commercial set up
brings to mind that the nail has just received a vgisit from the hammer head finally.

I would still be interested in your comments on my rantings though....since you are always right...:winky:

Oh and my I respectfully request you pass on your comments in red to VOSA rather than me...it would make more of a difference.:thumb:
 
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Geo

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Oh I see
I tried to help and was willing to voice an opinion at the forth comming seminar BUT
I thought this was a serious discussion, Your selective quoting does your case no good whatsoever, I now suspect the answers you posted "supposedly" from Vosa have also been manipulated to suite your ends, and can not therefore be relied upon
Therefore these and any future comments you may have can be deemed worthless by the majority
Please refer to the original post for the correct information:thumb:

Geo

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wireman

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wait a minute....first of all you call me delusional.....then:

You were the one who accused me of ranting and rather than take offence i tried to make light of it...perhaps I should have just taken offence....

My 'selective' quoting of your post was to point out a pertinent fact from that post and nothing else.

The report I gave of my converstion was condensed somewhat but is accurate and I take exception to your accusation that I am lying. I expected more of a respected member of this forum. And calling it 'manipulating' makes no nevermind.

Therefore I must conlclude that you have been got at and your own comments can be deemed worthless by the majority; in fact they can be seen as a pathetic atempt at defending your own position.
 

Wildman

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this bickering is not seemly or interesting reading. The answer was given very early in the thread. I suggest everone stop replying to it.

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wireman

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There are obviously some MOT testers who will toe the line regardless of the facts presented to them. I will therefore make sure I no longer use their services.
 

Geo

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Here for the non English speaking members

Definitions of the two words that seem to offend

A delusion, in everyday language, is a fixed belief that is either false, fanciful, or derived from deception

You have a fixed belief I'm wrong I believe that is false and fancifully
ergo you are delusional whats offencive :Doh:

A rant is a speech or text that does not present a well-researched and calm argument; rather, it is typically an attack on an idea, a person or an institution. Very often rants lack proven claims.

The above speaks for its self
again appear to have your own interpretation :Doh:
Bickering whos bickering :whatthe:
I thought I was applying common sense to a serious subject
Business is good thanks feel free to take yours werever:RollEyes:
It would'nt last long though if I took notice of your views as oposed to the governing body :Doh:
Geo
 
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