More wiring problems

[sonar]

The image below is the passenger side fuse box on a RHD Fiat DuCato 2003 swift Sundance.600b.

this is a link or seems a link with an inline 10 amp fuse.
I do not know what it does or what it controls.

I have removed the fuse and as far as I can see all is still working including the cigar lighter.

what I know about this so far is. The red wire to the top row of fuses should be the cigar lighter but that still works
the bottom or the red wire goes to a fuse entry that is not used and does not have a fuse fitted.

any ideas this just another hurdle I have to cross. I think I have most of the other old wiring stripped out that at one time did something but goes nowhere or just ended.

and other wiring that was just wrapped around its self sometimes bare sometimes taped .
any that needed to stay has now been soldered and taped with self amalgamating tape.

so I am winning. A step at a time.

 

[NicM]

Do you know what the 2 fuses joined together do? May help to work out why it’s there.

 

[pappajohn]

Looks to me like it's taking 12v From one fuse carrier and feeding the other fuses output side.......and it's a seriously heavy wire.
The top terminal will be the 12v supply and the bottom to the cig lighter
BUT.....the fuse box legend doesn't always correspond to the actual circuit it should.

 

[sonar]

Do you know what the 2 fuses joined together do? May help to work out why it’s there.

In the book it shows the top wire is into what it says in the book is the cigar lighter. Fuse.

the bottom of the wire goes into an un allocated fuse. The book shows this fuse is not present.

with the fuse out the cigar lighter still works the engine / heater / and all the lights work.The radio / fans and all the dash lights work.

I am thinking best to leave it where it is without the fuse in it until i either find out what it’s for or anything stops working.
seems it has nothing to do with the habitation areas.

 

[NicM]

In the book it shows the top wire is into what it says in the book is the cigar lighter. Fuse.

the bottom of the wire goes into an un allocated fuse. The book shows this fuse is not present.

with the fuse out the cigar lighter still works the engine / heater / and all the lights work.The radio / fans and all the dash lights work.

I am thinking best to leave it where it is without the fuse in it until i either find out what it’s for or anything stops working.
seems it has nothing to do with the habitation areas.

Yes, probably best idea, if it’s all been messed with in the past god knows what’s been done to it.

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[sonar]

Yes, probably best idea, if it’s all been messed with in the past god knows what’s been done to it.

You would not believe half of it. If I had the time to write it all down.

 

[NicM]

You would not believe half of it. If I had the time to write it all down.

Oh I probably would, have seen a lots, even things done by so called auto electricians!
Good luck with it, just slowly work your way though it.

 

[sonar]

Oh I probably would, have seen a lots, even things done by so called auto electricians!
Good luck with it, just slowly work your way though it.

That’s what’s happening now. Been at it since the start of December but it seems a lot longer
still got a long way to go and then hopefully we’re have a fully refurbished and mechanically sound Moho and including new or reupholstered interior.

Just seems so far away out the moment.

 

[autorouter]

Knowing nothing about the details of the wiring, here's a possibility. The cigarette-lighter might be one of those that's only live when the ignition is on. So possibly the fuse was removed, then power from an unused 'permanent live' fuse terminal was bridged to the cigarette-lighter fuse terminal, through a 10A inline fuse.

 

[sonar]

Knowing nothing about the details of the wiring, here's a possibility. The cigarette-lighter might be one of those that's only live when the ignition is on. So possibly the fuse was removed, then power from an unused 'permenent live' fuse terminal was bridged to the cigarette-lighter fuse terminal, through a 10A inline fuse.

Now that makes a lot of sense now it does work when the ignition is on
But when the fuse that is ok. Is Connected the cigar lighter does not work.

for a few seconds I thought that was it.

great answer but that’s not the one we’re looking for
as the say in Catch phrase. On t.v

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[sonar]

Having said all the above there is a second socket that I have not tried because it is a bit different to the other I think
but does not work either while ignition is on or off.

yet something else that wants sorting.

 

[autorouter]

Maybe even simpler then - the supply to the cigarette-lighter failed (bad connection for example) and power from an unused fuse terminal was bridged to it through the inline fuse.

 

[Cpcaravanserv]

Shame you're so far away Sonar, I'm currently starting my own motor home caravan repair business based in essex, I specialize in wiring as a car mechanic and would've helped u out sir

 

[sonar]

Shame you're so far away Sonar, I'm currently starting my own motor home caravan repair business based in essex, I specialize in wiring as a car mechanic and would've helped u out sir

Thanks for that.

Good luck with starting your new Business I am sure your do well.
and if I get much more of this I could be leaving outside your house.

I am sure I will get through it but just for a change next week I think I will have a go at removing and fitting the front lower cross member. Sorting out the front disc brake pads and a little bit of waxoil.

then back to finding what goes where and what does not work.

A change is as good as a rest.. so I have heard

 

[sonar]

Maybe even simpler then - the supply to the cigarette-lighter failed (bad connection for example) and power from an unused fuse terminal was bridged to it through the inline fuse.

No still does not work the ingiton on and it lights up when the lights are on but nothing else works on the second socket pictured above.

i will have to start yet another wire tracing expedition.

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[Cpcaravanserv]

If you want to send me you're reg i have access to autodata wiring diagrams at work (tomorrow) and could shed light on where stuff goes

 

[sonar]

If you want to send me you're reg i have access to autodata wiring diagrams at work (tomorrow) and could shed light on where stuff goes

Pm sent

 

[Cpcaravanserv]

Pictures sent back hope they help

 

[airwave]

The image below is the passenger side fuse box on a RHD Fiat DuCato 2003 swift Sundance.600b.

Hmmm interesting , okay a little story , and i'll try and keep it short . Back in the 90's , i moved to Ipswich , and began pulling containers out of Felixstowe docks . Very quickly settling down , i began to , what we call tramp . Now basically , this means i lived in the truck . My source of boiling water was a gas cooker , and though this worked well , it took time . It was while i was in a truck stop , i came across a 24 volt kettle , thought it was a good idea , so i brought one . It needed a 15 amp , 24 volt supply through a cigarette lighter plug , however a quick check revealed my cigarette lighter supply was only 10 amp . Not wanting to get involved with an examination (mistake number 1) , i reasoned i could just swop the fuse for a bigger one (mistake number 2) , so i quizzed the mechanic over whether it was safe to do so (mistake number 3 , can you see where this is going yet) . He worked on those trucks , so was more familiar with them , than me . Yeah , should be alright he said , great i thought (mistake number 4) . The truck concerned was a 1992 Volvo FL7 , 4x2 , grossing at 32520kg . It was actually at the time , the newest vehicle in the fleet .
So what happened , well actually nothing . Reason , i didn't trust the mechanic , i checked first . what did i find , you don't wanna know . Result , i completely rewired the cigarette light socket , and fused it to 15 amp . The kettle worked perfectly , yet was no quicker than gas .
The wiring i found , i wouldn't even had stuck a map light on .
Okay , so what does that have to do with you . Could be that's what happened here . Now i say this , as i have myself just changed the fuse box on my duke , a year 2000 , x230- 14 . I discovered shortly after i purchased mine , it had a damaged fuse box . I've since discovered there is a fault with this model in regard to the heater blower . The result was the actual block melted , and had been by passed , though i will mention the wiring was changed behind the block , to an inline fuse . Interesting fact here , the repair was no better than the original fault ! .

However , i will repeat this is a 230 , not a 244 , similar but not the same , stop panicking .

Now the fact that you say everything works , sounds good , but the fact , this fuse is missing , is worrying . What is more worrying is the fact the ciggie lighter still works . Where is this fuse , and why was it changed .
Now it's possible , the previous owner could have been someone like me , seen the problem , and addressed it , but i'm sorry , evidence suggests this is not the case . It's certainly not a professional job , more something i would expect from an amateur . Amatures don't work in that plane , so nothing can be left to chance . If your really unlucky , someone could have just changed the fuse for a higher rating and burnt the wiring out . Remember my little story at the head , however , i'll be honest here , i doubt this is the case . I'm gonna stick my neck out here and say , it's more likely being overpowered . In simple terms something high powered has been use continuously for an extended period , heating the wire excessively , maybe to the point where it began to smell . It's possibly to get a smell without actually causing any damage . It's possible this may have damaged the fuse holder , possibly melting the fuse itself . So i would strongly advise a full examination of the fuse block , especially the rear . Then careful inspection of the complete wire length . You will probably have to remove the lower dashboard covers . The new fuse , well logic would dictate it's near the cigarette lighter , but don't forget we are probably dealing with an amateur here , so worse , it may not even be fused .

One little post script here , does your radio work with the ignition off . Red wire from the fuse box ???

 

[2bob]

what is the problem

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[sonar]

Hmmm interesting , okay a little story , and i'll try and keep it short . Back in the 90's , i moved to Ipswich , and began pulling containers out of Felixstowe docks . Very quickly settling down , i began to , what we call tramp . Now basically , this means i lived in the truck . My source of boiling water was a gas cooker , and though this worked well , it took time . It was while i was in a truck stop , i came across a 24 volt kettle , thought it was a good idea , so i brought one . It needed a 15 amp , 24 volt supply through a cigarette lighter plug , however a quick check revealed my cigarette lighter supply was only 10 amp . Not wanting to get involved with an examination (mistake number 1) , i reasoned i could just swop the fuse for a bigger one (mistake number 2) , so i quizzed the mechanic over whether it was safe to do so (mistake number 3 , can you see where this is going yet) . He worked on those trucks , so was more familiar with them , than me . Yeah , should be alright he said , great i thought (mistake number 4) . The truck concerned was a 1992 Volvo FL7 , 4x2 , grossing at 32520kg . It was actually at the time , the newest vehicle in the fleet .
So what happened , well actually nothing . Reason , i didn't trust the mechanic , i checked first . what did i find , you don't wanna know . Result , i completely rewired the cigarette light socket , and fused it to 15 amp . The kettle worked perfectly , yet was no quicker than gas .
The wiring i found , i wouldn't even had stuck a map light on .
Okay , so what does that have to do with you . Could be that's what happened here . Now i say this , as i have myself just changed the fuse box on my duke , a year 2000 , x230- 14 . I discovered shortly after i purchased mine , it had a damaged fuse box . I've since discovered there is a fault with this model in regard to the heater blower . The result was the actual block melted , and had been by passed , though i will mention the wiring was changed behind the block , to an inline fuse . Interesting fact here , the repair was no better than the original fault ! .

However , i will repeat this is a 230 , not a 244 , similar but not the same , stop panicking .

Now the fact that you say everything works , sounds good , but the fact , this fuse is missing , is worrying . What is more worrying is the fact the ciggie lighter still works . Where is this fuse , and why was it changed .
Now it's possible , the previous owner could have been someone like me , seen the problem , and addressed it , but i'm sorry , evidence suggests this is not the case . It's certainly not a professional job , more something i would expect from an amateur . Amatures don't work in that plane , so nothing can be left to chance . If your really unlucky , someone could have just changed the fuse for a higher rating and burnt the wiring out . Remember my little story at the head , however , i'll be honest here , i doubt this is the case . I'm gonna stick my neck out here and say , it's more likely being overpowered . In simple terms something high powered has been use continuously for an extended period , heating the wire excessively , maybe to the point where it began to smell . It's possibly to get a smell without actually causing any damage . It's possible this may have damaged the fuse holder , possibly melting the fuse itself . So i would strongly advise a full examination of the fuse block , especially the rear . Then careful inspection of the complete wire length . You will probably have to remove the lower dashboard covers . The new fuse , well logic would dictate it's near the cigarette lighter , but don't forget we are probably dealing with an amateur here , so worse , it may not even be fused .

One little post script here , does your radio work with the ignition off . Red wire from the fuse box ???

No the radio only works when the ignition is on.
the cigar lighter only works when the ignition is on also.

the big red wire I have removed the fuse and still everything works.

the second cigar socket neither works with the ignition on or off or with the fuse put back in the big red wire.
I have yet to look at the second cigar lighter socket. It lights up when the ignition and the lights are on but still will not work.

I may just remove the second cigar socket as below.

 

[airwave]

I have yet to look at the second cigar lighter socket. It lights up when the ignition and the lights are on but still will not work.

I'm trying to remain positive here , but the deeper you go , sorry , the more difficult it gets .

Okay , well from the picture , and what your saying . I would suggest that the second lighter , is actually the original , and the lighter that is working is a new replacement (a picture may confirm this) . As both the radio , and cigarette lighter are affected by the ignition , i would further surmise a feed has been taken from the radio , to supply this new lighter . I'm gonna be honest here , if this proves to be the case , it doesn't bode well for it to be fused . In fact , i would expect to find the lighter unfused , it's more likely relying on the radio fuse for protection . Easy way to check this , is to find and pull the radio fuse .

Now back to what i think is the original lighter , you say it lights up , but doesn't work . Well the lighting is on a different circuit , so knowing that , and the fact it's still not working . I would suspect , a worse case scenario , and expect to find the wiring damaged . The removed fuse kind of backs this up . Now on my van , the cigarette lighter supply (power , earth , lighting , etc) is on a separate loom , so the prospect of the main loom being damaged , is very much reduced . However , having said that , a thorough examination is required , and that does include the fuse box to be sure . A careful examination of the fuse box with a mirror would suffice , but personally i would actually remove it . So i could thoroughly examine it with a torch . Now i'm not talking about a full removal , you would never get all the feeds back in the right place . Just enough to be able to see the rear of the box .

Now here i'm gonna just air an oddity , i found in your original post . You show a picture of your fuse box , to help explain a new wire you've found . Now the reason , i mention this , is when i first saw it , i noticed something strange , but didn't take it any further . Since then , i downloaded it , and blown it up , and frankly this may be odd , or it maybe a change within your fuse box .
On my van , the actual busbar (power) is to the top of the fuse position , with the bottom side being the feed to whatever . This being the case it means , the wire coming from your top fuse set is on the feed side , not the busbar , making it a patch lead feeding from the bottom fuse position . But here the plot thickens , because you mention it was a spare fuse , and the photograph does back this up . However , blowing up this bottom position , it doesn't appear to have any connections to link to .

In my case , i've already been though my wiring , earlier this year . This was actually a precursor to the fitting of a media centre , to replace the original radio . Like you i have removed several redundant feeds , and following examination repurposed a couple of others . The original cigarette lighter feed , is what i call a hot feed (power all the time) , now supplies a dash board clock , with a new heavier feed supplying a newly positioned ciggie lighter . I have uprated the fuse to 10 amp , from the original 7.5 , but i can tell you it will take a 15 amp ultimate load , with a further change of fuse . The wiring has been uprated to 17 amps , which is more than sufficient . Any higher would be pointless , as i doubt the fuse holder would take it for long , and either way , the lighter is not designed for any higher than 10 amp over a prolonged period , anyway .

 

[sonar]

Wow that’s a lot to write.
I will go through what you have said over the next week or so and see what sense I can make of it and get back to this thread.

thankyou for your help and sugestions.

 

[sonar]

SOLVED

I said I would update this thread when I had it sorted out.
now I have…
It was made as a supply to an already removed habitation alarm. That was linked through the fuse box.
also inline was a toggle switch located in the cab as an alarm isolation switch that did nothing either now removed.

the main wiring in turn terminated under the bonnet and was scrunched up into a ball with all bare wiring and stuffed behind the cab battery.now all removed..

Then I traced back through the fuse board and the fuse that was supposed to be for a cigar lighter still functions but is still not used so now fully in use there are now Two cigar lighters that are in full working order.

 

[Googlebot]

Great news and thanks for the update.

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[airwave]

SOLVED

Good man , this was shaping up to be really nastie , i'm glad to be proved wrong .

 

[sonar]

So am I now on with something else like the reversing cam thing.
it’s a real cheap one that seems to stay on when switched on.
more later