MIRO and payload question (1 Viewer)

[Oldgustaf]

The weight data for the motorhome we are going to collect next week states:
MIRO 3169kg
Max. user payload 326kg
Max. authorised weight 3495kg
Am I right in thinking that MIRO includes driver (say 75kg) and a full tank of fuel (1L = 1kg?). So that leaves us with 326kg for the passenger and all our clobber, plus onboard water, gas etc. Have we bought a MH with a stupidly low payload?

 

[Minxy]

Okay, lets all stop panicking ... until the OP knows exactly what the weight is of the vehicle empty, including both axles, we're all pretty much guessing if it will still be feasible for him to use it.

Get it weighed and then give us the figures, including what was on/in the camper at the time of the weighing.

Some people travel light, some don't, we have about 45kg of dogs to add to our own stuff, plus their dog food, beds, toys, towels etc, it all adds up, so we need to allocate 60kg minimum just for them, others don't.

 

[Cheshirecat57]

Mel is so right
All irrelevant until we(you) know what it actually weighs
I cannot understand the reluctance to ask for them to weigh the physical vehicle( and dont let them spout the brochure lies)

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[grumps147]

Okay, lets all stop panicking ... until the OP knows exactly what the weight is of the vehicle empty, including both axles, we're all pretty much guessing if it will still be feasible for him to use it.

Get it weighed and then give us the figures, including what was on/in the camper at the time of the weighing.

Some people travel light, some don't, we have about 45kg of dogs to add to our own stuff, plus their dog food, beds, toys, towels etc, it all adds up, so we need to allocate 60kg minimum just for them, others don't.

Well said, one persons ideal payload is not another’s, many people carry things we wouldn’t, nothing wrong in that, it’s personal choice. Sometimes the payload will force a personal choice on you.

If it’s any help we have just dropped from 4500Kg to 3500Kg. Lots of personal choice issues in our decision and lots of things we did have like an awning and second battery we no longer have. We can travel with minimum water, a full tank of fuel, solar panel and enough personal stuff and food to keep us going for a week before we have to go to the bag wash. We also have to cope with being a bit more, well I’m my case a lot more, than the 75Kg the guides allow for the driver.

We started off with 440Kg payload, and had 35 Kg spare before we set off for our long weekend when we put it on the weighbridge.

So, it can be done from a low payload starting point, but as has been said the payload you have been quoted may not include some extras added.

My pet hate is shows where a reasonable payload is shown on the base model brochure figures quoted on their label, but you are being provided with lux pack one and two, a bigger engine, a second battery - and suddenly your payload is struggling.

Only way to go, as has been said, is get it weighed.

Don’t worry if you do have to get up plated, you can probably get that done without any alterations to give you the bit extra you need.

 

[Buster30]

Took mine to the weigh bridge today, cost me £4.50, weight with no people but with two full 11kg gas bottles, 3/4 tank of fuel, no water, two leisure batteries, solar panel, Fiammi f65 awning, cable reel, two bike garage rack and came in at 3200kg, it has been up rated from 3500kg to 3850kg so more than happy, I could probably just get away with it at 3500kg at a push. Hymer ML580

 

[NorthernSands]

When talking about payload and, especially, axle load, you also have to account for where stuff is: don't forget the multiplication factor of anything put aft of the rear axle.

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[loutalucat]

There's a good thread on the MMM Forum involving Chelston motorhomes and a punter who placed a huge deposit on a £140K Carthago Liner for two. He added all of the options and then had only 40kg left on a 4.8T chassis for his wife, gear, food etc.

He went back to Chelston and to cut a long story short they agreed that 40kg was too small a payload (!!l) and the sale was cancelled; he did choose a different van though.

It was a very good thread which I spent a time studying because my friend has bought a Carthago. I was interested to see if Carthage had a problem. I was astounded to learn that it was the very vehicle that had been returned with 40kg of payload that my friend had bought. I took him straight down to the weigh bridge and was very relieved to find out that the payload was over 300kg with most of the vital weight on board.
I understand that the different van that the gentleman had ordered was also subject to a cancelled sale as it wasn’t as he had expected. This particular van is still on the forecourt at Chelston and the gentleman has decided that motor home holidaying is not for him after all.
Chelston meanwhile are still able to keep trading thankfully.

 

[Lenny HB]

It was a very good thread which I spent a time studying because my friend has bought a Carthago. I was interested to see if Carthage had a problem. I was astounded to learn that it was the very vehicle that had been returned with 40kg of payload that my friend had bought. I took him straight down to the weigh bridge and was very relieved to find out that the payload was over 300kg with most of the vital weight on board.

How is the difference explained?

 

[Minxy]

How is the difference explained?

I suspect he means his mate bought the same model, not the van that was returned, so a check showed it had a better payload, probably didn't have as many bits and bobs fitted as the other one.

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[Gerby]

the bit I don't understand is why they quote the average weight for a person as 75 KG or am I the only LARDY that drives these things (I have been to many camp sites to know that I am far from it) I am 5 foot 11 and two Half's of an in inch tall and weigh in at 85 KG's which is only 2 KG's over the national average.

Luckily I have a quoted payload of over 800 KG's and having checked it I found that was an underestimate even with full fuel, full water and the sylph like ( ) missus and me on board which is just as well as we have 2 largish dogs with us and the older one is about 45 KG's.

 

[Camping Gaza]

all up weights...

My God its a MOTORHOME, You DRIVE it not FLY IT!!! Its not a CESSNA!! , just leave the little yappy dogs at home, the teenager, and ditch the gas barbecue and the generator!


Flippant reply I know...!

 

[Pausim]

I don't understand is why they quote the average weight for a person as 75 KG

On average women weigh less than 75kg and on average men weigh more, not all drivers are male. It is just a figure used in a generalised calculation.

I took a look at the Carthago price list for the Liner For Two. There are many packs and options, all of which clearly state the additional weights, it would be very easy to get carried away and go overweight. When we ordered our Carthago from Chelston we were talked through the costs and weights of the options, as we made our choices. We were then sent a print out from Carthago with the build details, including weights and remaining payload, which we had to confirm with Chelston. I find it difficult to understand how the weight at delivery could be such a surprise unless the vehicle fell well outside the 5% weight variation allowed. I would be interested to know how the actual weights compared with those on the Certificate of Conformity.

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[loutalucat]

How is the difference explained?

The heavy extras which were generator, petrol tank, some of the solar panels etc were removed before my mate saw the van.
He is extremely happy with his new motor home and thankfully I managed to get him almost all the way to the weighbridge without having to explain why. I was very relieved that it was all good and thankfully he hadn’t had time to be concerned.

 

[Lenny HB]

The heavy extras which were generator, petrol tank, some of the solar panels etc were removed before my mate saw the van.
He is extremely happy with his new motor home and thankfully I managed to get him almost all the way to the weighbridge without having to explain why. I was very relieved that it was all good and thankfully he hadn’t had time to be concerned.

What is the weight fully loaded for a trip with full tanks?

 

[loutalucat]

What is the weight fully loaded for a trip with full tanks?

It was almost fully laden, including bikes, water, gas, fuel, two people etc. at the weighbridge. Only food and clothing to load in and he had 300kg spare. Oh no dog, she’s only a shitzu mind.

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[Lenny HB]

It was almost fully laden, including bikes, water, gas, fuel, two people etc. at the weighbridge. Only food and clothing to load in and he had 300kg spare. Oh no dog, she’s only a shitzu mind.

Something sounds fishy about the original story if thats the case.

 

[Minxy]

Something sounds fishy about the original story if thats the case.

I've just had a shuftie at the threat on MMM forum - search for Chelston motorhomes if you want to have a read ... it makes interesting reading as it was only down to the issue with tyres that got him looking into the weight situation in the first place. This is what the original owner had put on the MH and possibly also a tow bar too as that was mentioned in other posts:

The actual extras added that have any weight are 420w of solar panels on the roof, Hyundai generator and fuel tank underslung, spare wheel underslung, E&P levelling, Truma air conditioning unit on roof. These don’t to me seem enough to tip things over by so much so clearly the base vehicle is too close to the limit in any case.

other comments from him:

Further to the above, I’ve done some quick calculations on weight added:
- generator - 50kgs
- fuel tank for generator - 25kgs
- truma air con - 25kgs
- solar panels - approx 100kgs (5sqm)
- spare wheel - 25kgs
- total - 225kgs

Assuming this weight was all over the rear axle, which it isn’t, means there was precious little room for added anything and the rear axle was on the limit as a base vehicle. Though I know they assume little water etc.

Things that bother me:
- when first delivered TyrePal was disconnected so I wouldn’t hear the warnings.
- when I asked for weight to be checked of extras added item by item, I was told not to worry and wait til the end when they would use the weigh bridge.
- now I’m asking questions of the tyres, pressures, axle weights and faults with air, TyrePal and E&P I’m still being told all is ok.

... I have now figured this out and discussed with Wayne at Chelston. He has agreed to a full refund so no problem there. He is very reasonable and I respect that. Looking for a solution, we will take all the extras from the old van and he can then sell that. Then add to the new van on which he will give me the same percentage discount so I'm in effect only paying for the upgrade to the Iveco.

He then went on to buy one on the Iveco so had a much higher payload available:

I’m not out of pocket at all as I’m getting a full refund and then same discount on a new, more suitable van. i’m only down on time invested, but I’m happy I did spend the time as I feel like I’ve been on a steep learning curve but it’s been well worthwhile.

Finally his last post was this ...

Our motorhoming days are over after a short-lived experience. I can’t tell you the reasons why as Chelston settled with me on the basis of them admitting no liability and with the settlement being confidential and no discussion allowed on social media.

So what the issue was with the Iveco based one was I don't know, he did mention some concerns after he took delivery of it so I suspect he just went right back and got refunded, whether this was due to him not being willing to accept the limitations or Chelston wanting to get shot of him I don't know.

 

[Lenny HB]

Still doesn't add up does it.
The original owner said there was 40kg of payload left with full water no luggage or food, doesn't mention fuel.
So after taking off 225 kg of bits current owner fully loaded with full tanks for a trip has 300kg spare.

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[Pausim]

Still doesn't add up does it.

No, there does seem something odd about the weights. At one point he posted “Extras. - 4 x solar panels, generator, aircon, spare wheel etc come to 1,000 kgs.” Perhaps etc was very heavy.

Having looked at some of the purchasers early posts on the MMM Forum he seems conflicted between praising the dealer and worrying about whether they have a good reputation. He also seems to be worrying about issues that had not yet arisen, putting this down to intuition. There are a number of aspects in this saga that do not seem to add up.

In the end he and the dealer came to an amicable arrangement, so it all ends well. Perhaps the only lesson is that weight matters and has to be watched.

 

[loutalucat]

Something sounds fishy about the original story if thats the case.

You’re probably right. That’s why only going to the weigh bridge and actually weighing the front axle, rear axle and total weight could I be happy that Chelston had sold a roadworthy vehicle to my friend. All the stuff that I’d read on the forum could only be termed as hearsay and as you have pointed out sounds fishy.

 

[Minxy]

Still doesn't add up does it.
The original owner said there was 40kg of payload left with full water no luggage or food, doesn't mention fuel.
So after taking off 225 kg of bits current owner fully loaded with full tanks for a trip has 300kg spare.

The previous owner did have Chelston make a 'bespoke' under-slung carrier for the generator and E&P suspension/levelling (or whatever it was), possibly a tow bar and I suspect other stuff too (awning etc) which he hadn't mentioned in his totals.

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[Lenny HB]

The previous owner did have Chelston make a 'bespoke' under-slung carrier for the generator and E&P suspension/levelling (or whatever it was), possibly a tow bar and I suspect other stuff too (awning etc) which he hadn't mentioned in his totals.

The E&P was mentioned in the weight list, carrier would only be a few kilos. Unlikely to take an awning off would leave holes in the roof (roof fitting on a Carthago) and loads of Sikaflex along the length if it had been fitted properly.

 

[Minxy]

The E&P was mentioned in the weight list, carrier would only be a few kilos. Unlikely to take an awning off would leave holes in the roof (roof fitting on a Carthago) and loads of Sikaflex along the length if it had been fitted properly.

I was just suggesting stuff that was originally fitted, and still is, not that's been removed. He had the solar panels removed so don't know if that will have left issues on the roof ...

 

[Jonno1103]

A lot of modern vans seem to have less payload as what was once seen as cost option add on's detracting from your carrying capacity are now standard and included in the MIRO.

Most new vans come with solar, bike carrier and awning some even have twin leisure batteries and extra tables.

Maybe the question should be that builders should just offer basic motorhomes allowing the customer to pick and choose which additional kit they want and from where in order to alter their remaining payload accordingly?

A single factory fitted 100w monocrystalline solar panel will weigh 12kgs, more like 15kgs with the additional kit. A single 250w CIGS panel weighs less than 3 kgs. Thule & Fiamma awnings are heavier than Dometic.

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[fjooois]

HOWEVER.. There is no accepted standard for the MIRO and so manufacturers make it up to suit themselves.. Example my 2012 Autotrail included driver, gas, fuel and full fresh water... A few years later they just changed it and no water was included. Some include 20ltrs of water..
You need to find their definition of MIRO..

 

[Jonno1103]

... and as you say be year specific. I have a 2012 AT too, the payload of which is determined by the model year manual, the 2014 AT is different and never the twain shall meet so it's weighbridge every time after you've done the maths and think your under the limit.

It's the same with the engines, the older 3.0 litre 180 bhp added nearly 30kg's to your MIRO, the newer remapped 2.3 177 bhp doesn't.

Again take a look at the Tribute & Imala 615's which externally now look Identical, their selling point against a Tracker EKS which has the same layout is mainly payload. The reason for this is that the Tracker has many of the options factory fitted effecting the finished products MIRO. For the Tribby and Imala if you want them as after market options your MIRO remains but your original payload drops. In the end all three can and invariably do end up very similar.

It's why builders stipulate that many of their options are dealer fitted as it shifts the weight liability to the consumer.

For me I baulked at the price of a further driving test as I need an auto so would have jumped to an even higher class, the head scratcher is that I bought two trailers which cost wise worked out twice as much but crucially offer flexibility... but I still need to decide whether I want to tug the extra goodies for a long touring holiday or the MP3.

When we sell her next year I suppose the new owner can have her up plated if applicable and still take advantage of the tow bar and safari room that'll go with her.

 

[WESTY66]

The weight data for the motorhome we are going to collect next week states:
MIRO 3169kg
Max. user payload 326kg
Max. authorised weight 3495kg
Am I right in thinking that MIRO includes driver (say 75kg) and a full tank of fuel (1L = 1kg?). So that leaves us with 326kg for the passenger and all our clobber, plus onboard water, gas etc. Have we bought a MH with a stupidly low payload?

Am I right in thinking not only has the OP got small payload and is running at 3.5t in present form, but with his MIRO over the magic (not!!) 3050kg he is limited to the lower speed limits that affect the big boys (over 3.5t). If that’s the case the OP may as well up the GVW and enjoy?
Of course I cud be talking out of my backside?‍?‍

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[Cheshirecat57]

MIRO has nowt to do with speed limits !

 

[TerryL]

Deleted post

 

[WESTY66]

MIRO has nowt to do with speed limits !

Ahhh, so as a relative newbie, what’s the difference between MIRO and ULW (which I am led to believe does have something to do with speed limits)?

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[Cheshirecat57]

ULW is a factual weight of the unloaded vehicle,excluding fuel and people but includes coolant and lubricant oils

MIRO is a number made up by the industry and dependant on a variable ( manufacturer to manufacturer) notion of what is included/ neededfor touring

This number, incepted for all the right reasons to “help” buyers is probably the most misleading number a buyer will come across, especially a newbie, as the manufacturers manipulate it and mislead buyers