Migrant incident at Dieppe (1 Viewer)

GJH

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Well, definitely doesn't suprise me if it's Irish !
The point being that the usual public sector/council/public body way of doing things beggers belief. Our small stop would have cost multi thousands if they did it, consultancy, h&s bullshit, over engineering and general wastage is obscene.
Ours is now used very frequently, it's free or a donation to our club.... To date we've recouped the initial investment a few times over. We didn't design it to make money, rather a service for like minded individuals.
Part of the problem is that the public sector is tied down by legislation which it has to comply to, legislation which does not apply in the case of friends/volunteers doing it themselves. Presumably there will be minimum standards which the latter have to comply with but that may well be too low for a facility to be used by the general public rather than club members.
I'm not a public sector knocker, rather a businessman who sees first hand how ridiculous amounts of money is squandered and if it was run as a business it would have gone tits up years ago. It's OUR money they waste.

The private sector won't get involved unless there is a route to seeing a return or at least use of the property after a certain period of time....
Isn't there something of a conflict between those two paragraphs?
If the public sector were to spend money without first seeing a return wouldn't that be squandering money? ;)
 
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Part of the problem is that the public sector is tied down by legislation which it has to comply to, legislation which does not apply in the case of friends/volunteers doing it themselves. Presumably there will be minimum standards which the latter have to comply with but that may well be too low for a facility to be used by the general public rather than club members.

Friends and volunteers aren't allowed to dig up the road to tap into drains and water mains at will.
 

GJH

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I can...

Aires are all about location.. no point in aires where no one wants to visit .. put it in the right place and it will be supported

I have also looked nearby and there are two ideal places, one close to the town of Woodbridge and on the river bank.. the other at Bawdsey Quay.. also on the Deben

at present both are already used as carparks , no other infrastructure required to accommodate motorhomes..Bawdsey Quay has public toilets and an outside water tap.. being upgraded soon.. if done at the same time as the renovations.. installing an Elsan point would not be much extra

At present both have 2.3mt height barriers. .. I have considered writing and asking SCDC about this but I know the answer will be, yes, we would like to help, but the barriers are in place to keep travellers out... take them down and they will move in..

Locations on map
Woodbridge ..

Bawdsey Quay



Another location is at Aldeburgh , on the sea road by the 'big shell' .. while no height barrier, overnight parking is banned.
If Woodbridge and Bawdsey Quay would be abused then that is a valid reason (in the public interest as a whole, which councils are bound to try to serve) for height barriers.
As for Aldeburgh, though, if there is no such threat then perhaps all our Suffolk members need to get together and approach SCDC :)

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GJH

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Friends and volunteers aren't allowed to dig up the road to tap into drains and water mains at will.
Absolutely right, I was assuming that the case quoted didn't involve such work :)
I have no doubt, however, that there are numerous developments in clubs where people have bypassed regulations through either ignorance or "it doesn't apply to me" :D
 
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I can...

Aires are all about location.. no point in aires where no one wants to visit .. put it in the right place and it will be supported

I have also looked nearby and there are two ideal places, one close to the town of Woodbridge and on the river bank.. the other at Bawdsey Quay.. also on the Deben

at present both are already used as carparks , no other infrastructure required to accommodate motorhomes..Bawdsey Quay has public toilets and an outside water tap.. being upgraded soon.. if done at the same time as the renovations.. installing an Elsan point would not be much extra

At present both have 2.3mt height barriers. .. I have considered writing and asking SCDC about this but I know the answer will be, yes, we would like to help, but the barriers are in place to keep travellers out... take them down and they will move in..

Locations on map
Woodbridge ..

Bawdsey Quay



Another location is at Aldeburgh , on the sea road by the 'big shell' .. while no height barrier, overnight parking is banned.
I know these two areas, every time that I visit Bawdsey Quay it is full of cars. Are you suggesting that cars should be barred to make room for motorhomes. I think the council is right about the height barriers.
As far as the shell car park again always full. Vans parked overnight would automatically have the prime spot for the day leaving cars with nowhere to park. These are car parks Jim not camp sites. You have a very nice camp site across the road from the shell, why not sleep there.
 
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scotjimland

scotjimland

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If Woodbridge and Bawdsey Quay would be abused then that is a valid reason (in the public interest as a whole, which councils are bound to try to serve) for height barriers.
As for Aldeburgh, though, if there is no such threat then perhaps all our Suffolk members need to get together and approach SCDC :)

yes, I agree it's a very valid reason.. wasn't having a pop at SCDC.. it was a pop at travellers spoiling it for the law abiding

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GJH

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yes, I agree it's a very valid reason.. wasn't having a pop at SCDC.. it was a pop at travellers spoiling it for the law abiding
I appreciate that Jim :)
SCDC have, over the years, been proactive in providing daytime parking for motorhomes (whilst taking into account the demands from other car parks users). I do recall, though, that the area has in the past suffered abuse by motorhomers as well as "travellers" so there are barriers (no pun intended) to overcome as a result.
 
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I have considered writing and asking SCDC about this but I know the answer will be, yes, we would like to help, but the barriers are in place to keep travellers out... take them down and they will move in..

Another location is at Aldeburgh , on the sea road by the 'big shell' .. while no height barrier, overnight parking is banned.

Are there problems with travellers at Aldeburgh or in the area in general? If there are then the barriers on the other two locations are fair enough.

If there aren't then that's possibly the example that suggests that the argument doesn't stand up.
 
Dec 27, 2014
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Isn't there something of a conflict between those two paragraphs?
If the public sector were to spend money without first seeing a return wouldn't that be squandering money? ;)
It's not up to the private sector to provide tourism facilities.... unless there is a return of course ! ... Then I'm in.

Absolutely right, I was assuming that the case quoted didn't involve such work :)
I have no doubt, however, that there are numerous developments in clubs where people have bypassed regulations through either ignorance or "it doesn't apply to me" :D
Or are pragmatic enough to "get on with it"

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scotjimland

scotjimland

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You have a very nice camp site across the road from the shell, why not sleep there.

I called in at that very site and asked about a grass pitch with no EHU.. yes sir we can, £22 per night..

I said thank you.. but no thanks, I don't mind paying,. . but I baulk at paying £22 for a grass pitch !

£22 can buy a decent pub meal, and park for free .. hence joining Brit Stops..


as for being full..yes in high season and at weekends.. very popular.. but a van takes up little or no more space than a car.. besides, visit during the week they can be and often are deserted.. they could designate times when motorhomes are welcome to park overnight for up to 48hrs
 
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I called in at that very site and asked about a grass pitch with no EHU.. yes sir we can, £22 per night..

I said thank you.. but no thanks, I don't mind paying,. . but I baulk at paying £22 for a grass pitch !

£22 can buy a decent pub meal, and park for free .. hence joining Brit Stops..
I think you have highlighted the real problem Jim. Motorhomers purchase motorhomes but don't want to pay for the pleasure of using them. I have stayed on that site a number of times, I found it to be good value with just a short stroll to the shops and pubs of Aldeburgh.
 
Dec 27, 2014
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I called in at that very site and asked about a grass pitch with no EHU.. yes sir we can, £22 per night..

I said thank you.. but no thanks, I don't mind paying,. . but I baulk at paying £22 for a grass pitch !

£22 can buy a decent pub meal, and park for free .. hence joining Brit Stops..


as for being full..yes in high season and at weekends.. very popular.. but a van takes up little or no more space than a car.. besides, visit during the week they can be and often are deserted.. they could designate times when motorhomes are welcome to park overnight for up to 48hrs
Bang on Jim.

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johnp10

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Of course a lot of the people demanding that the government or whoever provides a "full network of aires" don't actually mean aires at all. They want to be able to park overnight for free and just want something for nothing.

Post cropped for brevity.

And there we have it!

As the post says, a lot of people, not all, want everything free.

Why should local ratepayers shell out for no return?
The usual garbage about "I pay poll tax at home" doesn't stand up unless you stay at home.
We all pay poll tax for the provision of services to our own communities, not to provide free facilities for those who contribute nothing.
"Money is spent in local shops" doesn't stand up, either.
There have been many on here who state clearly they never spend, taking everything they need with them.
 
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Bang on Jim.
It is not just a grass pitch. It has full shower toilet facilities security and access to one of the best small towns in the country with a nice beach across the road. Not their fault if you don't use it. What do you want for 20 quid.
 
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I think you have highlighted the real problem Jim. Motorhomers purchase motorhomes but don't want to pay for the pleasure of using them.

I'd struggle to pay £22 to park for the night as well.

It's not that I don't want to pay for the pleasure of using my motorhome it's that I object to paying for a site with facilities I don't want to and won't use. I don't care if it has a lovely toilet block, state of the art showers and somewhere to prep food and wash up. I have all of that in my motorhome so why on earth would I want to pay an inflated price to use someone elses facilities?

If that site had some pitches that had no access to anything other than a water tap and a drain and they charged a vastly reduced rate for people who just want somewhere to park and some water that would be a different matter.

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It is not just a grass pitch. It has full shower toilet facilities security and access to one of the best small towns in the country with a nice beach across the road. Not their fault if you don't use it. What do you want for 20 quid.

That could have been taken straight from Caravan Club propaganda material and that attitude highlights exactly why this country is so unfriendly to motorhomes.
 
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scotjimland

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I think you have highlighted the real problem Jim. Motorhomers purchase motorhomes but don't want to pay for the pleasure of using them. I have stayed on that site a number of times, I found it to be good value with just a short stroll to the shops and pubs of Aldeburgh.

yes, I have highlighted the problem .. correct.. camp sites that charge way over the top for parking.. and they get away with it because people pay it..

that site has a monopoly in Aldburgh , and I suspect the proprietor has a seat or seats in the local council.. the very council who prevent motorhomes parking on the sea wall.. citing weight issues as the reason... weight issues my arse.. the same council who ban overnight parking at the car park.. Alburgh don't want motorhomes unless they use the rip off camp site.. and that is the truth..

Aldburgh want gentile folks, with money to burn in overpriced shops and camp site... not us freeloading want everything for nothing motorhomers..
 
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yes, I have highlighted the problem .. correct.. camp sites that charge way over the top for parking.. and they get away with it because people pay it..

that site has a monopoly in Aldburgh , and I suspect the proprietor has a seat or seats in the local council.. the very council who prevent motorhomes parking on the sea wall.. citing weight issues as the reason... weight issues my arse.. the same council who ban overnight parking at the car park.. Alburgh don't want motorhomes unless they use the rip off camp site.. and that is the truth..

Aldburgh want gentile folks, with money to burn in overpriced shops and camp site... not us freeloading want everything for nothing motorhomers..
You appear to have summed it up pretty well Jim this is why when you walk down the high street in places like Aldeburgh or even Southwold, you can be rubbing shoulders with royalty.
Sizewell or Laiston on the other hand has ample cheap sites without many facilities and it is just a short walk up the beach.

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Woodbridge can have it's moments Jim. I expect you are a regular in the riverside theater and restaurant. Nice food. (y)
 

GJH

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yes, I have highlighted the problem .. correct.. camp sites that charge way over the top for parking.. and they get away with it because people pay it..
Surely they simply charge the market rate and people pay it because it is the market rate. We see very few people in this country volunteering to work for lower wages or sell their wares for less (supermarket special offers which aren't really excepted of course) :)
that site has a monopoly in Aldburgh , and I suspect the proprietor has a seat or seats in the local council.. the very council who prevent motorhomes parking on the sea wall.. citing weight issues as the reason... weight issues my arse.. the same council who ban overnight parking at the car park.. Alburgh don't want motorhomes unless they use the rip off camp site.. and that is the truth..
If I recall correctly the weight issues were fully aired and found to be valid some years ago. If the site is a monopoly, why doesn't somebody open one and charge less? It would be a licence to print money wouldn't it? As to the comment about the local council, if there is any evidence of malpractice then it should be reported to the police and local government ombudsman.
Aldburgh want gentile folks, with money to burn in overpriced shops and camp site... not us freeloading want everything for nothing motorhomers..
I should think that Aldeburgh would probably discourage freeloaders of any ilk, in common with just about every other town, wouldn't they? :)
 

GJH

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I'd struggle to pay £22 to park for the night as well.

It's not that I don't want to pay for the pleasure of using my motorhome it's that I object to paying for a site with facilities I don't want to and won't use. I don't care if it has a lovely toilet block, state of the art showers and somewhere to prep food and wash up. I have all of that in my motorhome so why on earth would I want to pay an inflated price to use someone elses facilities?

If that site had some pitches that had no access to anything other than a water tap and a drain and they charged a vastly reduced rate for people who just want somewhere to park and some water that would be a different matter.
I don't like paying for facilities I don't need/use either. That is why we normally uses THSs, rallies and (to a lesser extent) CLs/CSs. Haven't found any shortage of places to go.
That could have been taken straight from Caravan Club propaganda material and that attitude highlights exactly why this country is so unfriendly to motorhomes.
I think that, rather, it highlights that most sites are designed for use by all types of caravans rather than the country as a whole being unfriendly to motorhomes. There is every opportunity for individuals to open sites or CLs which accept motorhomes only but the vast majority don't have that restriction. I wonder why? Could it be that there is insufficient demand? :whistle:;)
 

Lenny HB

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I have been motorhoming for decades longer than your good self lennyhb yet never had a problem in finding somewhere in the UK to stay. What towns have height barriers, I cant think of one. Not a very strong case you are presenting here lenny.
I can't think of one car park in our area that is close enough to a town to be of use that hasn't got a height barriers. A few years ago when my wife's father was a alive he used to visit us an rather than stay on our drive he loved to park for the night by the Widewater Lagoon, of course now it has height & width barriers.
CL & CS are nearly always too far out of towns & villages to be of use & I hate the current trend of installing EHU , but still charge the full rate even when you don't want EHU.
 
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It doesnt take much to start with basic car parks with spaces painted out large enough for motorhomes.
Flyde council has done this. We were there last weekend and paid £15 for 2 nights and days. We consider this fine as the car park was in a good location on the seafront, I wouldn't consider £15 acceptable if the car park was in a poor location so obviously prices could vary.

There were over 20 vans there each night so I would say there was worth while and the demand is there. Just taking the benefit of the parking income and keeping the vans off side streets is worth councils doing this kind of semi-aire scheme.

We spent over £120 between a hotel, cinema, shops, amusement arcades, so once again another reason why these schemes are viable to councils and local traders. If this car park was unavailable we may have parked on a road but more likely we would have gone elsewhere and so would the friends we met up with there. It works so is very strange other councils are not following.

The friends we met are the ones who no-loonger go to france after being confronted by immigrants.
 
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all this had been 'aired' before .. a zillion times..

can we get back on topic please .. remember.. the migrants at Dieppe ?
Quite, Jim but just my last word on the Aires in uk, any areas that don't have a traveler problem soon will have if they remove the barriers, and the cost of these things here is ridiculous compared with France , most are just a manhole cover over a drain and a tap on a post with a bit of chatter thrown about, which at the outside can't have cost £1000, and they have plenty spare ground for doing it on , compleatly different circumstances than here, it just won't happen, if they do set them up they will charge damn near as much as a campsite.

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