Mac Leopard & 10.5.1 update

scotjimland

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I was hopeful that a known issue with disk permissions would be resolved with 10.5.1, before update there was one error, after the update there are now eight or nine errors.. :Doh:

Any other Leopard users out there ... :shout:

and no funny comments from Windoze users .:ROFLMAO:
 

Jim

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Issuing software before it is ready, who would do such a thing?:ROFLMAO:
 
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hi judging by the paucity of replies it sounds as if the Leopard is an endangered species, best change to windows before you become extinct Jim.

Olley

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scotjimland

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hi judging by the paucity of replies it sounds as if the Leopard is an endangered species, best change to windows before you become extinct Jim.

Olley
hmmm maybe another forum :winky: :ROFLMAO:
 

Tony Hunt

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Jim. I bought Leopard the day it came out. Its brilliant but ive had one or two issues that have had to be resolved on the helpline :) The worst one was everything appeared to have crashed one morning when I powered on, nothing but blue on the screen and totally locked up. Managed to resolve things after a few clicks and a lot of head scratching from the guy at Apple. I have set up the new Time machine feature that backs up to a seperate hard drive hourly or whenever you want to do it manually. Great idea that one.
Stacks looks good as do the other new features. Suspect Microsoft will be copying all these new features on their next operating system like they have on Vista.
Vista, thats another nightmare. If anybody is thinking of getting it on a new machine, dont. Its absolute crap.
 
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scotjimland

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Hi Tony

I agree, Leopard is brilliant and leaves Vista in the dark ages.. :ROFLMAO:

The 'permission errors' don't affect the system in any way so I won't worry..

I presume you have done the update 10.5.1 ?

Cheers
Jim

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Tony Hunt

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I have now jim thanks for reminding me. Dont understand why more people dont switch to Apple. Far less hassle than a windows machine, no more expensive, no virus worries. so easy to learn to use the mac system. You even have the ability to run one of the windows operating systems on a mac via Boot camp or Parallels if you cant manage without microsoft, you cant run a mac the other way round on a windows machine, Microsoft would be frightened of being shown up as an inferior product :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO: Especially Vista.:winky:
 
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Hi Guys, funny how 9 out of 10 people don't agree with you ::bigsmile:

As for price!! just had a look at the Mac Store, macbook from £699!! it may be good but entry level it ain't.

Saverstore, Acer Travelmate £362 inc. vat. what will the Mac do twice as good for twice the price??

The Mac has always been a good machine but never price competitive, and its price that people go by. Even if it is a better operating system and a better looking machine.

Olley
 

camcondor

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Sorry folks, didn't see the posting till now - we have several Macs due to Jen's Fine Art uni studies, so I have to keep the Windoze hardware and Apple stuff up to speed in this house....as I undertstand it Leopard is causing a few problems, some folk have had major issues. It seems to install best if installations are erase and install rather than upgrade - and with fewer problems. If you have older applications, then most forums seem to advise hanging on for a few updates before upgrading to Leopard, as quite a lot of software seems to have incompatibility probs as do some printers, scanners and external dvd writers.:Sad:

Having said that, Leopard appears to be a great OS, and streets ahead of Windoze. Its not all that happy on old systems though, and any systems running under about 700mhz are just too slow to cope with it and you're better off with Tiger or Panther. Lots of bargain older Mac Powerbooks and G4 Powermacs around at present though - they look iconic and well constructed still (they are) and for under £100 you can buy an excellent Mac which will run Internet and a host of other apps, albeit not Leopard!

The repairing permissions bug in Leopard is apparently of no consequence, and is not repaired on the 10.5.1 update UNLESS you download the WHOLE update (approx 110mb file) as opposed to updating the software via Software Update. Hope that makes sense. Also, Disk Warrior is not compatible with Leopard at all - it causes hassles if you use it - so wait for the new version, due soon, before using it on Leopard.

Hope that all makes sense and is of some use to the few Mac users out there - its a great system, WHY NOT GIVE IT A TRY!! I 'll be happy to help out, as I'm sure Jim and other Mac users will.


Laurie:thumb:

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The thing I love about my recent new iMac purchase is that even when it goes wrong, which is rarely, the solution is simple!

Just shut down the programme that is causing the problem!

Start up in the morning from sleep mode is about 5 seconds!

Everything is intuitive and therefore easy to use.

My recent creation of a DVD about the birth of Libby (the old re built softop mini) took a total of about 2 hours to create with old camcorder material, photographs and music overlay. Oh and that included learning how to use the software!

Even more importantly, guess what? It worked first time. The DVD was created, popped into the family DVD player and it played...........first time! Unlike the pinnacle software I was using previously on the Windows machine, which may have worked, seemed to depend on how it felt at the time. Oh that that was after it had crashed the computer a number of times!

Apple Mac - love it!

Chris
 

camcondor

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Olley

You get what you pay for, generally. Windoze hardware is of variable quality, much of it poor, the OS is often unstable (esp Vista) , mIcrosoft software hugely overpriced, policed by Big Brother Gates' mates, and the experience is generally, well, functional rather than a pleasure. Plus attacks by virusses and other nasties are far more prevalent on the Windows platform than on a Mac. Lots of Windoze towers look absolutely tasteless and cheap, and many laptops fall apart rapidly after purchase. Not that Apple is perfect by any means - but the quality of the hardware and the OS ensures that its fanbase is expanding solidly. And the various mac platforms do not date for years - you can still use old G3 equipment quite well in todays world - while Windoze hardware is more or less out of date when you buy it and it needs upgrades far more often to run the bloated software packages than Macs do.

You can travel many miles in a Ford Fiesta as sure as can in my Audi S8, but I know which ride I prefer :RollEyes:

Macs are not cheap - but then the best quality items rarely are. I believe I'm pretty impartial as I run both platforms and do all the support for two networks containing both Macs and Windoze units. Macs win every time. However, you can accomplish similar aims with either platform, so if you spend £400 on a cheap Windoze unit or £1500 on a Mac Book, whose to say either purchase is "right" or "wrong"?

I think people should try Macs - esp now when you can buy older hardware at bargain prices - if you want to compare the two platforms. Windoze users tend to change their laptops / towers every 2 years; for Macs the upgrade hardware times are longer - so prices are perhaps not as disparate as you would think, if you look at the computing experience over say a 10 year period. :RollEyes:


Laurie
 
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Great comparison Laurie, if a little harsh on the Windows world!

For me, the greatest saving I can see in my new found Mac world, will be the time saved in not having to re boot, re install or check out why something is not running properly.

As a Manager at the time for the company who originally sold Apple in the UK, I saw the amazing changes that the product brought. This was before MS produced Windows, which strangely enough was almost identical to Apples'! I still have the Mac SE with 9" mono screen in my loft that revolutionised the printing industry.

I should add that but for some great advice of people from the other forum, I may never have gone down the Apple route again, but thank goodness I did! The remaining 5 computers will be replaced with Mac's as they slowly meet their demise!

Regards

Chris

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Jim

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I think Windows suffers a bit like Brownhills, They sell so many and whilst the comparatively few complaints about them are loud, the vast majority of the customers are very happy.

The combination of XP Pro and IE7 is as stable a platform as I have seen since my old Amstrad 9256 and logoscript. I have XP loaded machines running continuously and with weeks between re-boots, and then those reboots are only to reclaim a bit of leaked memory. Wild horses would not drag me from it, not to vista or to mac. XP Pro is just too good.
 
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scotjimland

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I find it strange that people who have never used, let alone owned a Mac, are so loyal to Windoze and so outspoken in there defense, how do they make a judgment ?
I'm not a computer geek, I don't need to be, no more than I need to be a motor mechanic to compare two cars.. but I need to at least test drive to make an objective decision, I might prefer the look and style of a BMW compared to a Ford but it tells me nothing about how they both perform, how reliable they are, service costs, longevity etc etc , I could read road reports but this would still tell me nothing about how it actually feels to own and drive one...
I did just exactly that with Macs, I took a test drive about 7 years ago and the rest as they say is history, I promptly sold my two desk top family PCs and bought a 10" iBook..
That was my fist Mac, Jan got one soon afterwards, I've now got a 17" Power Book, Jan and Paul use 14" iBooks. The only issue I've ever had is the power adaptor, they are very delicate and the cords can be easily broken, I had one replaced under warranty.. other than that.. nothing, not even a service call to Mac..
Until I retired I used XP Pro at work, but couldn't wait to get home to use my Mac.. I love it, something I never said about my PC..

Please take time out and give them a try, go to a proper Apple store and ask for a demo or ask a friend .. you will not regret it.. :thumb:

Read the following for the geeky bits.. :winky:

Common Myths About the Mac
Myth: Windows and Linux applications don’t run on a Mac.
Fact: You can run most anything on Macs, no matter what the platform.
Boot Camp from Apple, you can dual-boot your system into either Mac OS X or Windows XP. Alternatively, using virtualization software such as Parallels Desktop for Mac or VMWare, you can run Windows XP, Linux, or any other operating system simultaneously with Mac OS X.

Myth: Macs can’t run Microsoft Office.
Fact: Macs can run Microsoft Office, and the files you create on Mac are fully compatible with Windows.
Microsoft Office 2004 for Mac OS X gives you full-featured Word, Powerpoint, and Excel with the same familiar interfaces. And for any Microsoft application that’s not yet available for Mac — like Microsoft Access or Project — you can run them on Intel-based Macs using Boot Camp or virtualization software like Parallels or VMWare.

Myth: Macs won’t fit into my network.
Fact: Mac OS X can talk to every major file server protocol on every major server platform on the market today.
Mac OS X includes the major networking protocols for accessing every major server platform, including Windows, Linux, and UNIX. Mac OS X is the most compatible operating system available today.

Myth: Macs are expensive.
Fact: Apple hardware and software offer tremendous value.
Owning a Mac offers the scientist a cost-effective solution and great return on investment. The Mac is designed for optimal productivity with exceptional price/performance and minimal investment for the most innovative computing features offered on any platform.

Myth: Macs are proprietary.
Fact: Mac OS X is an open architecture, based on industry standards.
It’s based on an open source variant of FreeBSD UNIX and developed entirely with openness and interoperability in mind. Mac OS X incorporates the major open standards for directory services, programming and scripting languages, interprocess communications and arithmetic libraries.

Myth: New Mac users and IT staff face a steep learning curve.
Fact: The Mac — it just works.
Mac users are up and running quickly thanks to the well-designed, intuitive user interface of Mac OS X. On the IT side, the Mac makes system administration so easy you can expand your existing compute infrastructure without increasing your IT staff.

Myth: The Mac OS X operating system isn’t stable.
Fact: Mac OS X is based on UNIX, a platform renowned for its stability.
Beneath the surface of Mac OS X lies an industrial-strength UNIX foundation integrating a Mach 3.0 microkernel and state-of-the-art FreeBSD 5 variant.

Myth: You can’t develop cross-platform applications on a Mac.
Fact: Cross-platform development is one of the many strengths of Mac OS X.
Mac OS X is a superior development platform that includes a robust set of developer tools allowing you to develop and test cross-platform applications.

Myth: Apple only makes iPods.
Fact: Apple makes serious computers for serious science.
In addition to making iPods, Apple develops the technology to tackle the most demanding computational and visualization problems facing scientists today. In the MacBook Pro notebook, Mac Pro scientific workstation, and Xserve server, you’ll find the high-performance 64-bit computing, advanced graphics, and scalable memory and storage capacity needed to handle your big data requirements.
 
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Criky don't you mac guys get upset when someone suggests that macs aren't the best.::bigsmile:

The fact of the matter is PC don't fall to pieces, they don't crash every 5 minutes, they do offer better value for money than macs. Why would I want to run my windows programmes on a mac? when I can run them for half the price on a PC?

I run 10 pc's 8 of which are on permanently on, 5 on one network 3 on another and 2 solo. After 3 years 1 now needs replacing. 2 years ago on the 5 network the server had a power supply failure, 30 mins to transferred the backup to another and we were up and running again. Drove down to PCWorld bought new power supply for £30, 2 hours after that all fixed. Can you do that with a mac? No. don't say they never go wrong, because that's bull.

XP is good stable system, it may not quite as good as the mac system, the computers may not look as flashy, but like a ford they keep going and when they fail parts are cheap.

Mac's do get viruses, its just that as 90% of PC's are Windows so 90% of hackers target windows. I don't use computers because I love them, I use them as a tool, in exactly the same way as I use a car, I drive a 10 year old galaxy, sure I would like an Audi, but will it get me from a to b any quicker, no only at greater cost and in more comfort. So I will stick to the Ford.

Olley

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scotjimland

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Ohh my ... who is getting his knickers in a twist.. :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

Well, there are plenty of creationists still out there and for a while the flat-earthers held sway, despite all the evidence. It may be a geeky urban myth, but I understand from reliable sources that Bill Gates himself uses Macs at home.:winky: nuff said ::bigsmile:
 
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Hi Jim, remember Betamax? it was the best system, but what happened to it? Ultimately what you and I prefer matters not a jot, its what the mass of people buy, and while most home PC's are bought because they can run ALL the latest games, PC's will rule the roost.

For anything but gaming most home users could get by with windows for work groups on a 486, and a similar old spec mac, but the power of advertising, hey.

Olley
 

Jim

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Hi Jim, to try a mac would cost me money, I already have a very heavy investment in Windows Software and Hardware and because it works very well I am reluctant to change. Aesthetics and being slightly more user friendly for novices is not going to make me want to invest. Now if i was burgled and all my PC's and Software stolen I would look seriously at mac.

As an aside, would the Adobe Creative Suite, and Office 2007 etc that i have for windows install on a Mac or would I have to replace them with mac versions because just that software alone costs £2000+

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Hi if your computer does what you want and is reasonably reliable why change? For me I cannot see any overriding reason to, even if the mac was twice as good and never fell over. It ain't broke so why fix it??

Olley
 

camcondor

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Jim
You can run Windoze software on the new Intel macs as the OS has built-in Boot Camp, allowing the use of Win XP on the Mac and all your Windoze software. However, older Macs may not be so seamless - there are however software packages like Parallel Desktop and suchlike that allow you to run Win XP on IBM based Macs though, so you would be able to use expensive software you have already purchased.
Microsoft will stop supporting XP at some future date, so your honeymoon with the most stable version of Windoze may have to come to end and when its time to upgrade hardware and/or software perhaps you may want to consider a Mac.

Olley and the rest of the Mac-bashers:

For me, a lot in life is about the quality of the ride, yes I could arrive in a Micra, but would I want to? No. I would like to enjoy my cars, computers and other nice material items, not just utilise them in a utilitarian and basic manner. I spend hours of my life with computers, so I strive to make it the best possible experience I can afford. That's why many people buy new cars / furniture / TVs etc etc, not because the old stuff didn't work. And it is important to a lot of people not to have cheap, bizarre-looking PC equipment which looks like it flew in from outer space-due to space constraints, computer hardware is taking on a mulimedia role in living rooms more and more, and PC tat in yucky or boring plastic just doesn't do it.
Yes, PC parts are easier for the general public to source, but I disagree that Macs are "difficult" to fix - they are not. I do both, so speak from complete experience. PC parts collapse a lot more often in my experience, too. Mac compatible parts are easy to find if you know what you need and know what you are doing with a Macs innards. I've never had a problem repairing or upgrading Macs - laptops or desktops. I look after two networks as well each containing Macs and PCs.

G2EWS:

Welcome to the happy and exclusive fold. Long may your Mac serve you. They are fine pieces of engineering and style if you can afford the premium - not everyone wants or needs the understated elegance provided by Mac hardware and software.

I'm really surprised at the angry retorts from some non-Mac users though, surely to speak from evidence-based experience is the only REAL way to compare the two platforms? Don't knock what you don't know!! Maybe the dark days are getting to everyone......roll on Spring!!!!!:Eeek:
 
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Hi camconder, a mac basher::bigsmile: I think if you read all the posts you will find its full of window bashers, with people like me mealy defending it.

I need computers in our business, I don't need them to look good, I need them to do a job of work, at the lowest price, that's why for the last 10 years I have always bought PC's. Mac's are good machines, never disputed it, they are possibly better built, never had one so I will take your word for it, the operating system may be better, but the question is better at what? will it make my Diary programme run faster? and better? will they earn me more money? They ran fine under 98 so I didn't even need XP.

You people keep saying change, but you give me no logical cost effective reason to do so, at the moment the only reason you give, is that they make better more aesthetically pleasing ornaments. :ROFLMAO:

Olley

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camcondor

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Olley, I must say I am surprised by your vitriolic attacks on Macs (and me) when you
a)know little about them
b)haven't used them before.
Somewhat ridiculous to call a Mac an "ornament", suggesting it has no use other than to look good, when you obviously have no experience of the Mac platform whatsoever. :ROFLMAO:

Use whatever you like - it takes all types to make up this world, after all, and no-one was "forcing" anyone to use a Mac - merely saying they had had such a good experience and/or had swopped over to the Mac platform and never regretted it. If, for instance, we all wanted slick computers and fabulous-to-drive cars, there would be no market at all for the Micras, Fiestas and other very basic motors, let alone beige pc boxes, or their hideous "gaming rig" equivalents. Just don't knock what you don't know. Someone screaming from the rooftops about how fantastic Windows is as a platform,(and how well it runs your diary program) and how Macs are "ornaments", when by theirown admission they have no experience of the Mac platform whatsoever, seems to have a somewhat unbalanced argument. :whatthe:

Those of us who have used both, obviously have a different opinion to you. Macs are great machines - better built, better designed, better engineered and far more "future proof" than any PC in existence. Plus the Mac and its OS and other software simply works out of the box, digital file (asset) management ( DAM )systems are geared to Macs as are most graphics and design packages, and most Fine Art Studios , graphics designers, and high end photographers use Macs exclusively. Not to say that Windoze can't be used in these areas - there is a lot of software available for PCs in this area now, although the professional arena appears to be staying with Macs. The Fine Art faculty at Derby Uni, for instance, has Mac Studios with a total of about 120 Macs on the network. There isn't a single PC anywhere in the Faculty. Even the local college has a Mac Studio for the Art and Design faculty. I guess that a lot of people then, have uses for the Mac other than its aesthetic qualities, and that its a lot more than an expensive "ornament" for millions of satisfied users.

Can't understand why Macs vs PCs discussions should evoke such an aggressive response though - surely everyone is entitled to an opinion and we could all just discuss the issue reasonably without degenerating into the realm of personal insults and slagging off of users who dare to suggest that Macs are worth trying if and when people are looking for new computer hardware??


Laurie
 

American Dream

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Olley, I must say I am surprised by your vitriolic attacks on Macs (and me) when you
a)know little about them
b)haven't used them before.
Somewhat ridiculous to call a Mac an "ornament", suggesting it has no use other than to look good, when you obviously have no experience of the Mac platform whatsoever. :ROFLMAO:

Use whatever you like - it takes all types to make up this world, after all, and no-one was "forcing" anyone to use a Mac - merely saying they had had such a good experience and/or had swopped over to the Mac platform and never regretted it. If, for instance, we all wanted slick computers and fabulous-to-drive cars, there would be no market at all for the Micras, Fiestas and other very basic motors, let alone beige pc boxes, or their hideous "gaming rig" equivalents. Just don't knock what you don't know. Someone screaming from the rooftops about how fantastic Windows is as a platform,(and how well it runs your diary program) and how Macs are "ornaments", when by theirown admission they have no experience of the Mac platform whatsoever, seems to have a somewhat unbalanced argument. :whatthe:

Those of us who have used both, obviously have a different opinion to you. Macs are great machines - better built, better designed, better engineered and far more "future proof" than any PC in existence. Plus the Mac and its OS and other software simply works out of the box, digital file (asset) management ( DAM )systems are geared to Macs as are most graphics and design packages, and most Fine Art Studios , graphics designers, and high end photographers use Macs exclusively. Not to say that Windoze can't be used in these areas - there is a lot of software available for PCs in this area now, although the professional arena appears to be staying with Macs. The Fine Art faculty at Derby Uni, for instance, has Mac Studios with a total of about 120 Macs on the network. There isn't a single PC anywhere in the Faculty. Even the local college has a Mac Studio for the Art and Design faculty. I guess that a lot of people then, have uses for the Mac other than its aesthetic qualities, and that its a lot more than an expensive "ornament" for millions of satisfied users.

Can't understand why Macs vs PCs discussions should evoke such an aggressive response though - surely everyone is entitled to an opinion and we could all just discuss the issue reasonably without degenerating into the realm of personal insults and slagging off of users who dare to suggest that Macs are worth trying if and when people are looking for new computer hardware??


Laurie

Well I personally Love Macs.

I work all day fixing People's PC's and networks and find the Mac a refreshingly Robust machine and operating system.

And they look good too.:thumb:

Certainly all the Graphics studios use them as they do not crash, multitask efficiently and just go on working.
 
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Hi canconder, you have me completely bemused, where have I made a vitriolic attack against you or mac's? I Said

"Mac's are good machines, never disputed it, they are possibly better built, never had one so I will take your word for it, the operating system may be better"

I said "XP is good stable system, it may not quite as good as the mac system"

As far as I see my only reference to you personally was "Hi camconder, a mac basher I think if you read all the posts you will find its full of window bashers, with people like me mealy defending it." Hardly vitriolic.

harsh or corrosive in tone; "an acerbic tone piercing otherwise flowery prose"; "a barrage of acid comments"; "her acrid remarks make her many enemies"; "bitter words"; "blistering criticism"; "caustic jokes about political assassination, talk-show hosts and medical ethics"; "a sulfurous denunciation"; "a vitriolic critique"

You said: And it is important to a lot of people not to have cheap, bizarre-looking PC equipment which looks like it flew in from outer space-due to space constraints, computer hardware is taking on a mulimedia role in living rooms more and more, and PC tat in yucky or boring plastic just doesn't do it.

Which is why I replied with: "that they make better more aesthetically pleasing ornaments"

I did not mean that's all they were good for, only that they were better looking than PC's hardly a vitriolic attack.

It seems you are taking this all to seriously, I take the whole mac versus PC debate as a bit of fun, and it was never my intention to upset you. Please accept my apologises for having done so. I won't post on this anymore.

Olley

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camcondor

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Olley, I really do not care who does or does not use Macs or PCs - its a personal choice for every computer user out there and people were just voicing personal experiences. We're all entitled to our opinions - it just seems rather weird that someone with no experience of a Mac at all should be so judgemental about the platform and so negative. As I've said before, don't knock what you don't know - Macs are not "ornaments", they are excellent business machines, however you want to twist the conversation.I have both platforms and no financial gain to supporting either!!!!
Anyhow, its off topic - the thread is actually about the newest Mac OS release, so perhaps we should veer back onto discussing Leopard.:RollEyes:

Laurie
 

Jim

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A large international print and publishing house that I have dealings with, have more PCs than ever,(though they still have more macs than PCs) this they told me was due to a publishing program called Adobe Indesign which came along and blew the long standing Quark Express out of the water and was late being ported to the Mac. It is now available on the Mac but they still use the PC as, within the program at least, they say there is no real difference except that the high spec PC's they have are faster than the Mac with very large files.
 
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