LPG and Tax

Discussion in 'Heating and Air-Conditioning' started by Peter & Elaine, Mar 27, 2013.

  1. Peter & Elaine

    Peter & Elaine Funster

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    I don't quiet understand this
    If LPG is subject to road fuel tax and VAT at 20%
    But domestic heating is not and VAT at 5%
    Are there gas suppliers where we can fill up at these lower rates
    Being a fine upstanding yorkshire man and a tight git I hate giving tax man any more than I need to
     
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  2. JeanLuc

    JeanLuc Funster

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    You will not escape the road fuel tax, but can get an account with some suppliers that charges 5% VAT. I am not sure who might do this in your area, but I have an account with Countrywide Farmers (restricted to South Midlands and Southwest). I have notified them that the LPG is used for heating and cooking only, in a motorhome and my account is therefore charged 5% VAT. I have an electronic key and can fill at any of their 24/7 outlets; the charge then appears on a monthly invoice paid by DD. In practice, I almost always fill at the local depot and that lasts me for most trips. See if you can find a similar supplier in your area - other Funsters may know of one.

    < Countrywide >
     
  3. maz

    maz Funster

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    If you're going to the Stratford Show, there is a bulk supplier of gas on site who charges domestic rate for motorhomes. I always fill up when I'm leaving. :Smile:
     
  4. rainbow chasers

    rainbow chasers

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    usually, if you tell them it is for leisure/heating they will discount it.

    Quite often, it is one of those - 'if you don't know, they won't tell you' affairs.
     
  5. MicknPat

    MicknPat Funster

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    The problem appears to be the amount you wish to buy or lack of it that's the problem, that and why should they charge at 5% if they can get 20% but then that money goes to the government NOT the suppler. :Sad:
     
  6. Peter & Elaine

    Peter & Elaine Funster

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    I can sort of understand the vat part it's the road fuel duty that gets up my nose
     
  7. joner8888

    joner8888

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    I have to pay £24 for a 6kg propane bottle at my local garage.
    They do not mind if i leave a empty or not.
    Is this the average price out and about
     
  8. Phill D

    Phill D

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    £24 is a bit hevy, at my local caravan dealer its £21 for calor lite 6kg
     
  9. Taran_Las

    Taran_Las Funster

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    £20 for a 6kg up here in God's country (northern division).
     
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  10. bigfoot

    bigfoot Funster

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    I pay the lower rate at Calor depots,generally they ask me if its for domestic. Independent suppliers rarely ask ,sometime their excuse is 'the VATs already paid'

    Self-service garages with Autogas pumps its the full hit,but still cheaper than refills.
     
  11. canopus

    canopus Funster Life Member

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    We were out for six days over easter with no hook up. The Alde heating was on 24/7, the fridge was running on gas 24/7 and Lynda cooked a couple of full dinners not to mention kettle on and off all the time. We emptied one 11kg bottle and reckon we used a bit out of the second. Filled up with (23.59 ltrs) on the way home and the gas cost £16.73. Thats a little over £2.75 a day which considering the perishing weather, I don't think is too bad :thumb:

    I'm always wary when filling up with Autogas for domestic - was filling at one garage whilst the gas fitter was mending the other pump. He said that strictly speaking, ' Autogas is for the propulsion of vehicles and not for domestic use' So I tend to keep my head down :ROFLMAO:
     
  12. rainbow chasers

    rainbow chasers

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    Bottled gas isn't reflective of current prices - it is priced at the rate they bought in at when bottled. Often amounts are stockpiled, especially during high demand periods. The companies are told 'not to pass on' the discounts when they happen due to the price the supplier paid when they bought it.

    Garages etc that sell it make very little profit if any, which is why fewer are stocking bottled gas. Autogas is a wierd one too, as again little profit and they are always undercut by their own suppliers it would seem, which is a little harsh!
     
  13. John & Joan

    John & Joan

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    I get my Autogas from a main Calor depot at 5%Vat. Just filled up yesterday. They will only supply if you open an account with them. However the Calor accounts system will not accept VAT at 5% and auto changes it overnight and the invoices come out at 20%Vat To get around this they do it as a cash sale. I had no end of bother before this was sorted out. I also can get it at 5%Vat at the garage at Grizebeck in the lakes.

    I have a letter (below) from HMRC setting out the fact that if gas is used for heating or refrigeration it should be supplied free of road duty and at 5%Vat.

    I have approached Shell and Flogas on this matter.
    The big suppliers say it is to much bother for them to allow the till staff to set the VAT at different rates. HMRC charge the road duty to the site when the site tank is filled up and this is classed as "set aside." It is not charged to the garage at point of sale unlike VAT.

    There is a HMRC department in Newcastle that sorts out biodiesel that is used for domestic use and it refunds the excess Vat to individual users. HMRC however will not include us as gas users under that scheme.


    CUSTOMS, INTERNATIONAL TRADE &
    EXCISE ENQUIRIES
    Crownhill Court
    Tailyour Road
    Plymouth​
    PL6 5BZ

    Date ​
    12th April 2012

    Our Ref IT12-77299

    Dear Mr Thompson,

    Your letter of 19​
    th March, addressed to the Mineral Oils Reliefs Centre in Gosforth, has been passed to this office.
    Let me refer you to our public notice no.76, "Excise duty on gas for use as fuel in road vehicles". It is available on our website www.hmrc.gov.uk. Click on "library" in the "quick links" box on the home page; then "publications", "notices", "excise duties" and finally, "oils/public notices".

    Para.2.2 states

    "If a road vehicle carries gas-powered equipment (for example, refrigerating apparatus or an exhaust gas purifier) the gas for such equipment is liable to duty if it is drawn from or connected to a supply
    which is also used to propel the vehicle, even though such equipment does not contribute to the propulsion of the vehicle. Gas for use in such equipment is not liable to duty if it is drawn from an independent supply.
    Gas is not chargeable with Excise duty if it is usedJor heating.or for industrial or scientific purposes." -​

    When gas is not set aside or used as a road fuel it is ​
    not liable to excise duty and should be bought from a supplier as such with VAT at 5%. It is for this reason that no scheme is in place to allow recovery.
    It's easy to understand why a supplier would charge excise duty. There is at first sight the potential for the gas to be used to power the vehicle and a supplier will be wary of undercharging duty/tax.

    You can draw a supplier's attention to the public notice and emphasise that your intended use is for heating/cooking and not for powering the vehicle. If necessary you might offer to provide the supplier with a written declaration in which you state your intended use. This would be something that the supplier could retain as evidence in support of a supply free of duty. Any officer of HMRC that examines the supplier's accounts would thus be able to
    satisfy him/herself that a supply was legitimately made without duty and with VAT at the reduced rate.

    Yours sincerely,


    Robert White
     
  14. pappajohn

    pappajohn Funster Life Member

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    but is it worth all the trouble for maybe 25ltrs.

    i would think fuel station tills are set up for 20% tax rate and not the 5% domestic rate as 99.99% of fuel sales will be for road use...
     
  15. Peter & Elaine

    Peter & Elaine Funster

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    I just hate paying tax on gas used as domestic heating and not road fuel
    I pay enough tax as it is
     
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