Low Emission Zone. (1 Viewer)

[pappajohn]

Errrm, simple answer is, where to send the fines?....what Caravan does Billy Smith live in??

same address they send speeding and parking tickets to oh:

but seriously, why should showmen be exempt and not LGV delivery drivers....delivery drivers are essential...fairgrounds aren't.

 

[pappajohn]

You want to apply for a job as a tourism officer for London, John. I, for one, never realised that it had improved so much that it is now only a festering corrupt dump

I was being diplomatic and giving the benefit of doubt Graham.

 

[GJH]

It is frustrating Mavis but the "good" news is that SO many people are hit by it this time and also so many errors are coming to light...filters and the administration side too.
We argue this point. If a vehicle breaksdown outside the zone and a NON compliant recovery truck brings it in at lets say 23.15pm then the cost is £95 for the recovery (whatever?) but then £200 to enter....then upon leaving the Zone at just after midnight we get ANPR'd, that is ANOTHER £200.
A £95 recovery is now costing £495.00. Goes without saying that won't work!oh:

We as an industry are stating that we are loathe to fit something that we know will end in tears....we see the end results daily. We deal with the people that fit filters and [HI]we know for a fact that our industry is not suitable for retrofitting[/HI]. It's comparable to being told to place a loaded gun to our heads and pull the trigger, we know the outcome and we are not happy with playing that game!

Nothing personal but the industry has also known for 5 years that the rules are coming in. Other companies, private individuals and voluntary organisations have complied so why shouldn't recovery companies comply as well?

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[GJH]

Take also into account that Showman's trucks, funfairs, are eligable for a 100% discount,


How do 'showmen' carry so much clout....

they appear to have a different set of rules to the rest of the motoring public.

I've seen fairground trucks towing at least two trailers and often its been three, even a 40ft artic with a large 'fairground ride' trailer on tow.

and dont even go there about it being a 'locomotive' truck.
these have been clocked by me at approaching 50mph when their limit is 20mph

It's misinformation that all showmen's vehicles are exempt. From the TfL web site

Some showman's vehicles are eligible for a 100 per cent discount from the LEZ daily charge if they are registered to a person following the business of a travelling showman and have been modified or specially constructed.

For a vehicle to be eligible for the discount, modifications or special constructions for the purpose of the show must be either:

Used during the performance, or
Used for the purpose of providing the performance, or
Used for carrying performance equipment, or
Used for displaying animals to the public, or
Below the chassis level, such that it isn't possible to fit emission abatement equipment

 

[mikev]

Low Emission Zone

I get so angry when i raed about the LEZ and the way it has been introduced for motorhomes.

I list below my main points. I wish I had studied law instead of woodwork and metalwork.

1. I only live one mile within the zone

2. I never drive towards London (Peugeot 107 for that)

3. I only do about 4000 a year - mainly in France/Spain.

4. Cost of filter will be 2-3000 pounds.

5. I cannot claim money back like a commercial vehicle (increase their price of goods/services)

6 I thus pay twice.

7. Filter will cost as much as the value of my 107 car. Hence an increase in insurance.

8. My van is non turbo so cannot afford loss of power due to increased back pressure. If resulting in accident is TFL liable as approver of filter.?

9. If filter catches fire is TFL liable.?

10. My 20 odd miles a year accessing the M25 is not going to add to the London emissions problem.

I am not a legal man but if it went to court could TFL honestly justify me spending that amount of money for the supposed pollution I cause.

I hate to say it but what about my human rights……



Mikev

 

[Red Sonja]

I feel for you I really do Mikev. We have decided to store ours 7 miles away at a cost of £10 per week (If paid 6 months in advance or £12 if not) Also we were not convinced that in a few years time things will change again to make those will filters non compliant again.

As for festering London. I actually live in Kent and am still hit with the LEZ as are some in Middlesex, and Surrey.

Sonja

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[slobadoberbob]

we live 20 miles South

I feel for you I really do Mikev. We have decided to store ours 7 miles away at a cost of £10 per week (If paid 6 months in advance or £12 if not) Also we were not convinced that in a few years time things will change again to make those will filters non compliant again.

As for festering London. I actually live in Kent and am still hit with the LEZ as are some in Middlesex, and Surrey.

Sonja

While we live 20 miles South of the LEZ.... we did look at all the issues before we purchased our RV.. which is petrol and meets the 2012 regulations.. the rules do not exclude petrol engines by the way. But the vehicle we have is a big powerful 6.8 V10.. I have a real issue getting a reading when it is MOT'd as it is so clean, as most American petrol engines are on modern yanks... mine is a 2005 model so not the latest.

But, one has to consider ownership as a whole. storage is an issue .. what was years ago is not now. What if they had put restrictions on say for traffic calming? can happen and that could stop access to your home. The law, sorry to say does not give you a right of access to a certain place. But a lot of companies as some have said decided to deal with the looming issue.. plenty of notice was given. But some sectors like the breakdown companies decided not to do like a lot of other companies did .. deal with the issue at an early date... letters and protests on the M25 which can cause some of us issues that use the road, do not help.. no amount of protests or writing or even trying to get support on here (this forum) will change the facts the LEZ is here to stay as it is in a lot of cities in Europe.

Storage outside the LEZ may be the only option. Lots have to do that even out side the LEZ because they cannot store a motorhome at there home. That is unfortunate... I wanted a 34' RV, but knowing I could only sore 29' I purchased a small yank 25' long.. but if I had purchased the A class Winnebago Vectra I would have had to store it.. and being a diesel I also could not go inside the LEZ.. I have gone through the blackwall tunnel a few times .. but I prefer to go round using the M25 .. London Roads was not built for motorhomes.

Lastly if you insist in buying White van conversions to have as a motohome chassis then that is part of the cost of owning same.... They were built as commercial vehicles and as such they push out the same amounts of particles as the delivery van... The fact you do a few miles is not the issue.. no one says how many miles you can or cannot do in your pride and joy, that is you choice.

Perhaps thought needs to be given to what you buy. I know that depends on the funds you have.. but if your motorhome is such a bad pollutant then perhaps it is time it was not on the road. But that is your life choice. If it is a new version motorhome and you can afford the high purchase price and it complies good..

But no amount of moaning is going to get TFL to make any exemptions more than it has done, and to be honest I do not think they should.. I can remember the pee soupers in the East End of London for the coal fires and the poorly maintained vehicles of those days.. clean air helps lots of people and it costs us all via the NHS.

Bob :Blush::Blush::Blush:

 

[estcres]

Can someone tell me the full purpose of the LEZ.

We have had a recent incident of particulate exposure in Devizes when it was discovered that the local Pond (Crammer) had very high levels of particulates in the sediment. Cost many thousands of pounds to remove and dispose off.

What this highlighted was that particulates are heavier than air and therefore fall to the ground, rain then washes them into the drains and in our case into the pond.

So the LEZ cannot be about air quality improvement as particulates fall to the ground.

 

[pappajohn]

It's misinformation that all showmen's vehicles are exempt. From the TfL web site

For a vehicle to be eligible for the discount, modifications or special constructions for the purpose of the show must be either:

Used during the performance, or
Used for the purpose of providing the performance, or
Used for carrying performance equipment, or
Used for displaying animals to the public, or
Below the chassis level, such that it isn't possible to fit emission abatement equipment



just about covers all showmans vehicles with the exception of personal transport Graham

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[pappajohn]

can someone tell me the full purpose of the lez.

We have had a recent incident of particulate exposure in devizes when it was discovered that the local pond (crammer) had very high levels of particulates in the sediment. Cost many thousands of pounds to remove and dispose off.

What this highlighted was that particulates are heavier than air and therefore fall to the ground, rain then washes them into the drains and in our case into the pond.

So the lez cannot be about air quality improvement as particulates fall to the ground.

paranoia !!!!

 

[mikev]

low emission zone

While we live 20 miles South of the LEZ.... we did look at all the issues before we purchased our RV.. which is petrol and meets the 2012 regulations.. the rules do not exclude petrol engines by the way. But the vehicle we have is a big powerful 6.8 V10.. I have a real issue getting a reading when it is MOT'd as it is so clean, as most American petrol engines are on modern yanks... mine is a 2005 model so not the latest.

But, one has to consider ownership as a whole. storage is an issue .. what was years ago is not now. What if they had put restrictions on say for traffic calming? can happen and that could stop access to your home. The law, sorry to say does not give you a right of access to a certain place. But a lot of companies as some have said decided to deal with the looming issue.. plenty of notice was given. But some sectors like the breakdown companies decided not to do like a lot of other companies did .. deal with the issue at an early date... letters and protests on the M25 which can cause some of us issues that use the road, do not help.. no amount of protests or writing or even trying to get support on here (this forum) will change the facts the LEZ is here to stay as it is in a lot of cities in Europe.

Storage outside the LEZ may be the only option. Lots have to do that even out side the LEZ because they cannot store a motorhome at there home. That is unfortunate... I wanted a 34' RV, but knowing I could only sore 29' I purchased a small yank 25' long.. but if I had purchased the A class Winnebago Vectra I would have had to store it.. and being a diesel I also could not go inside the LEZ.. I have gone through the blackwall tunnel a few times .. but I prefer to go round using the M25 .. London Roads was not built for motorhomes.

Lastly if you insist in buying White van conversions to have as a motohome chassis then that is part of the cost of owning same.... They were built as commercial vehicles and as such they push out the same amounts of particles as the delivery van... The fact you do a few miles is not the issue.. no one says how many miles you can or cannot do in your pride and joy, that is you choice.

Perhaps thought needs to be given to what you buy. I know that depends on the funds you have.. but if your motorhome is such a bad pollutant then perhaps it is time it was not on the road. But that is your life choice. If it is a new version motorhome and you can afford the high purchase price and it complies good..

But no amount of moaning is going to get TFL to make any exemptions more than it has done, and to be honest I do not think they should.. I can remember the pee soupers in the East End of London for the coal fires and the poorly maintained vehicles of those days.. clean air helps lots of people and it costs us all via the NHS.

Bob :Blush::Blush::Blush:

Bob

Thanks for your comments. I have to say though they do come across as :im alright jack: I wont argue which of us pollutes most and does more damage to the evvironment, but I only do it for 20 mile in the Zone. Unfortunately I cannot afford another van.

Regards Mike V

 

[GJH]

For a vehicle to be eligible for the discount, modifications or special constructions for the purpose of the show must be either:

Used during the performance, or
Used for the purpose of providing the performance, or
Used for carrying performance equipment, or
Used for displaying animals to the public, or
Below the chassis level, such that it isn't possible to fit emission abatement equipment



just about covers all showmans vehicles with the exception of personal transport Graham

I won't argue, John, as I have no idea - just quoting TfL

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[Risky R]

Nothing personal but the industry has also known for 5 years that the rules are coming in. Other companies, private individuals and voluntary organisations have complied so why shouldn't recovery companies comply as well?

We've been pulling vehicles in for over 5 years with DPF filter problems, like I said in previous post, we know what's coming, we are not taken in by lack of information because we have every bit of data available....take gun, pull trigger..NO THANKS. the average Joe believes what the people say about this and that...we know otherwise.

Read sticker, picture posted earlier....Do not Idle for 15 minutes per day Maximum. Avoid prolongued low speed....
We pull up at a Job, we have amber beacons on to warn off, cannot turn off engine....we may be at scene 2 hours, idling. Then Winching. PTO engaged for Hydraulics...Idling. Lift casualty vehicle.....SLOWLY. When all secured and scene clear we drive away...Slowly.
I think you can already see our point.
We are termed the 4th emergency service, unlike the other 3 we do not get paid by government to upgrade, it's all from our pockets. A single truck that lifts a bus is in excess of £250,000. My friend has 4 to replace....would you expect him to do that out of his own pocket?
Next time a 44 truck is rolled and trapping victims, take a look who shifts that truck!! When a car is flattened under something...We lift it in most cases not the Fire services...we see the carnage and the mess but we get no help in upgrade of kit.

So when this phase of the LEZ hits we are concerned about the loss of cover.
Remember this....WE are the only trucks that can move anything else on the roads when it goes wrong. We feel that is more important a deal than the Showman's industry.

 

[Risky R]

I won't argue, John, as I have no idea - just quoting TfL

Oh, also if you are in the funfair trade but drive a NON compliant truck, you could always just remove your number plates to avoid detection in the LEZ...and of course avoid paying the £200.

 

[Gromett]

"Risky R" You're last response finally gave a decent argument for you to be exempted. Before that I just thought you were having a whinge and had had 5 years to plan for this. I had been thinking tough titty to be honest.

If you are able to organise so well. How about a days strike? If you all ceased providing any service in the LEZ for a day I am sure the impact would be enough to make them look again at the issue. Driving a convoy round the M25 will have no effect I am afraid.

Please note, I am anti union and anti strike. However in this situation if they won't listen a demonstration of the results may be in order....

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[GJH]

We've been pulling vehicles in for over 5 years with DPF filter problems, like I said in previous post, we know what's coming, we are not taken in by lack of information because we have every bit of data available....take gun, pull trigger..NO THANKS. the average Joe believes what the people say about this and that...we know otherwise.

Read sticker, picture posted earlier....Do not Idle for 15 minutes per day Maximum. Avoid prolongued low speed....
We pull up at a Job, we have amber beacons on to warn off, cannot turn off engine....we may be at scene 2 hours, idling. Then Winching. PTO engaged for Hydraulics...Idling. Lift casualty vehicle.....SLOWLY. When all secured and scene clear we drive away...Slowly.
I think you can already see our point.
We are termed the 4th emergency service, unlike the other 3 we do not get paid by government to upgrade, it's all from our pockets. A single truck that lifts a bus is in excess of £250,000. My friend has 4 to replace....would you expect him to do that out of his own pocket?
Next time a 44 truck is rolled and trapping victims, take a look who shifts that truck!! When a car is flattened under something...We lift it in most cases not the Fire services...we see the carnage and the mess but we get no help in upgrade of kit.

So when this phase of the LEZ hits we are concerned about the loss of cover.
Remember this....WE are the only trucks that can move anything else on the roads when it goes wrong. We feel that is more important a deal than the Showman's industry.

You keep mentioning the filters and I don't dispute your evidence that there is a problem with them. However, that ignores the fact that compliance can be achieved - as it already has by many people - by replacing, rather than modifying, the vehicle. Those companies, individuals and other organisations all had arguments for special treatment which were just as valid/invalid as those of the recovery industry. They were not made a special case so why should the recovery industry receive special treatment?

Like all other industries affected by the 2012, recovery firms have had five years notice. A voluntary organisation we were members of (still are until the end of the year I suppose) had only a year's notice because their lorry had to be compliant in 2008. That organisation, entirely funded by fees earned for putting on events and the contributions of about 100 private individuals (many on reasonably low incomes) replaced its lorry.

 

[GJH]

"Risky R" You're last response finally gave a decent argument for you to be exempted. Before that I just thought you were having a whinge and had had 5 years to plan for this. I had been thinking tough titty to be honest.

If you are able to organise so well. How about a days strike? If you all ceased providing any service in the LEZ for a day I am sure the impact would be enough to make them look again at the issue. Driving a convoy round the M25 will have no effect I am afraid.

Please note, I am anti union and anti strike. However in this situation if they won't listen a demonstration of the results may be in order....

Lots of people had decent arguments for exemption, Karl, not least private residents who already owned non-compliant motorhomes and, unlike companies, had no opportunity to recover costs by increasing prices. Those who have ignored the five years notice have to face up to the fact that it was their choice to do so.

 

[Risky R]

"Risky R" You're last response finally gave a decent argument for you to be exempted. Before that I just thought you were having a whinge and had had 5 years to plan for this. I had been thinking tough titty to be honest.

If you are able to organise so well. How about a days strike? If you all ceased providing any service in the LEZ for a day I am sure the impact would be enough to make them look again at the issue. Driving a convoy round the M25 will have no effect I am afraid.

Please note, I am anti union and anti strike. However in this situation if they won't listen a demonstration of the results may be in order....

Hi Gromett
5 years of history is hard to put into 2 days of joining a forum. We have been at this from day dot. Every chance to point out to TFL, Ken and now Boris has been taken and at each meeting TFL has failed to see the connections. We have taken the small step of driving around the M25 as a last resort and we also know that it will have minimal effect other than to look good for pictures or video. We also took the step to travel away from Dartford so as to avoid making journeys any harder for others hence we started 2.30pm. We are loathe to stop working because many of our guys have to work alongside the other Emergency services. We save lives on a daily basis too. If we learnt that someone had died as a result of a strike that would be a disaster for our industry. The trouble is that the LEZ will soon make many of our trucks unable to enter the LEZ. Also many firms will go under. We are being forced to fit Filters that will not work at huge expense, buy new or newer trucks. Many are facing closure due to this.
A recent example of what my friend done was this. They got told by the Police to get to a scene ASAP...just get there no matter what you have to do. A person was crushed under a lorry and this needed lifting. Despite the fact the persons legs were severed it was only because my friend and his soon to be NON compliant truck got there so quick the person survived.
Come January, If the nearest COMPLIANT truck was an extra 30 minutes away it was clear this person would of died. Seconds save lives. We do not want to strike. Soon Boris may have blood on his hands.

Just LISTEN to the daily traffic reports, think what would happen across Britain if we stopped working for a few hours let alone 24hrs.

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[Risky R]

You keep mentioning the filters and I don't dispute your evidence that there is a problem with them. However, that ignores the fact that compliance can be achieved - as it already has by many people - by replacing, rather than modifying, the vehicle. Those companies, individuals and other organisations all had arguments for special treatment which were just as valid/invalid as those of the recovery industry. They were not made a special case so why should the recovery industry receive special treatment?

Like all other industries affected by the 2012, recovery firms have had five years notice. A voluntary organisation we were members of (still are until the end of the year I suppose) had only a year's notice because their lorry had to be compliant in 2008. That organisation, entirely funded by fees earned for putting on events and the contributions of about 100 private individuals (many on reasonably low incomes) replaced its lorry.

I'll refer back to a previous post and fill in a few gaps,
My little truck would cost upwards of £60,000 for a similar style. MY truck was hand built to be as narrow as possible to get through 7 foot width restrictions. It is unique and a one off. The £60,000 truck would be unlikely to fit in where I get within Londons tight streets. A specialist truck with only ONE use, RECOVERY.
A heavy recovery truck is also a unique build. Fabricated from the strongest parts to lift the largest vehicles safely. It is not a standard vehicle. The strains and demands placed upon our trucks are unbelievable. A local company has recently placed a truck for sale to judge the market. It is an 04 truck. £127,000 sale price....no-one wants it. Dropped to £90,000....cannot sell it and this is a superb truck. The replacement is over £250,000. He needs 4 trucks...as well as all the smaller ones are no good in a matter of weeks. The guy is in pieces and so are his staff, MERRY CHRISTMAS.

All we are asking TFL for is a 100% discount enjoyed by the showman. We would do it on an application basis rather than a full blown cover...only those that want to enter London would apply. Taxed as RECOVERY, we are exempt Congestion Charge albeit a £10 annual fee. We are not talking thousands of trucks but possibly a few hundred at most. The benefits we bring to London by way of lowering congestion and Emissions plus the fact we save lives cannot be ignored. To say we are not important we feel is an insult.

 

[GJH]

I just had a look at Link Removed explaining the January 2012 changes.

The list of vehicles of more than 3.5 tonnes gross vehicle weight which are affected is - Lorries; Breakdown and recovery vehicles; Concrete mixers; Fire engines; Gritters; Motorcaravans; Motorised horseboxes; Refuse collection vehicles: Removals lorries; Road
sweepers; Snow ploughs; Tippers.

Apart from privately owned motorcaravans these are vehicles owned by local authorities (or companies to which they let contracts) and companies of various sizes in various industries.

TfL received submissions not just from the recovery industry but also from organisations such as the Freight Transport Association, London Ambulances and the maintenance departments of London Boroughs. Thus, to say that all the recovery industry is asking TFL for is a 100% discount enjoyed by the showman is not really the whole story is it? Given the lists, both of vehicles and organisations, what the recovery industry is asking for is special treatment which is not to be enjoyed by the vast majority other businesses.

 

[Risky R]

P.S people...GREAT forum, not had time to have a sniff around but it is definately going to get a good viewing soon:thumb:
We had a few weeks bimbling through France, Switzerland and Italy, it was absolutely fantastic despite the fact we done it in our Delica. Scuba dived in lake Como and dived in Portofino....happy days!

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[Risky R]

I just had a look at Link Removed explaining the January 2012 changes.

The list of vehicles of more than 3.5 tonnes gross vehicle weight which are affected is - Lorries; Breakdown and recovery vehicles; Concrete mixers; Fire engines; Gritters; Motorcaravans; Motorised horseboxes; Refuse collection vehicles: Removals lorries; Road
sweepers; Snow ploughs; Tippers.

Apart from privately owned motorcaravans these are vehicles owned by local authorities (or companies to which they let contracts) and companies of various sizes in various industries.

TfL received submissions not just from the recovery industry but also from organisations such as the Freight Transport Association, London Ambulances and the maintenance departments of London Boroughs. Thus, to say that all the recovery industry is asking TFL for is a 100% discount enjoyed by the showman is not really the whole story is it? Given the lists, both of vehicles and organisations, what the recovery industry is asking for is special treatment which is not to be enjoyed by the vast majority other businesses.

Hi Graham

The list is in fact endless of what this affects in january 2012. The costs to local councils is immense and many are not replacing some services to the community. Vehicles such as gritters are rarely used and as such contribute little to emissions...why replace at such a large cost which must be passed on to the tax payer.
To put a finer point on things, again...the filters do not work in many applications, our industry is probably the hardest hit taking into account the job we do, the costs of building a truck and the very fact that we are the top of the chain when Motorhomes, busses, artics, gritters, dustcarts, police, fire and ambulance...ETC, Breakdown.....anywhere and at anytime.

Our trucks are all privately owned too, like motorhomes.

What would you feel should happen in respect of fitting not fit for purpose filters? I joined this site to inform you guys that this is what is going on....now you can either take it as a done deal or carry on blind into purchasing filters that may cause you to explode. I trust that makes it a bit simpler as to why I thought you guys may show interest into just what YOU may be fitting under YOUR vans, it appears that some are happy to go with the flow despite the risks that are clear to see.
oh:

 

[GJH]

Risky,
As I said earlier, I don't dispute your evidence that there is a problem with some filters. Your input on that subject will, I'm sure, be valuable to a number of members of this forum who own older vehicles which are not LEZ compliant.

However, that is a different point from the general one of exemption from the LEZ provisions.

Arguments like "Our trucks are all privately owned too, like motorhomes" don't really wash. Motorhomes are usually used by private individuals for leisure purposes whilst recovery trucks are almost invariably used for business purposes.

 

[Mavis]

Hi Graham

The list is in fact endless of what this affects in january 2012. The costs to local councils is immense and many are not replacing some services to the community. Vehicles such as gritters are rarely used and as such contribute little to emissions...why replace at such a large cost which must be passed on to the tax payer.
To put a finer point on things, again...the filters do not work in many applications, our industry is probably the hardest hit taking into account the job we do, the costs of building a truck and the very fact that we are the top of the chain when Motorhomes, busses, artics, gritters, dustcarts, police, fire and ambulance...ETC, Breakdown.....anywhere and at anytime.

Our trucks are all privately owned too, like motorhomes.

What would you feel should happen in respect of fitting not fit for purpose filters? I joined this site to inform you guys that this is what is going on....now you can either take it as a done deal or carry on blind into purchasing filters that may cause you to explode. I trust that makes it a bit simpler as to why I thought you guys may show interest into just what YOU may be fitting under YOUR vans, it appears that some are happy to go with the flow despite the risks that are clear to see.
oh:

You will find that the Council have sorted their vehicles out a long time ago
I knew about this all coming in in 2006 as my son works for Westminster Council and I know the time when they put sniffers on all bridges into London to measure the Emissions and Westminster council replaced all their Refuse lorries that was why I started a petition in the first place and kept on trying to bring to the attention of M/Homers that they needed to do something, My friends in the MCC who lived in London gradually saw that I was right as the signs went up. Autotrail told me to scrap my P reg M/h as there would not be a conversion!!!! We asked around and was told they were concentrating on lorry's first. Then this year there was a conversion but they are going to charge yearly to test it.
--- so now here we are with it starting properly in jan 2012-- I wish this conversation had happened earlier we may have been able to have done something.
I even went to the European Parliament on my own to try and get it heard under my human rights that I couldnt travel in London in my Motorhome
My local MP tried for me and Boris did postpone for 2 years so that the filters could be manufactured. I can always say I tried :thumb:
All I ever asked for was the German System as a Motorhome is a leisure Vehicle not a heavy goods vehicle
Link Removed £40 is far better than £200 per day to go in and out of London

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[Risky R]

Risky,
As I said earlier, I don't dispute your evidence that there is a problem with some filters. Your input on that subject will, I'm sure, be valuable to a number of members of this forum who own older vehicles which are not LEZ compliant.

However, that is a different point from the general one of exemption from the LEZ provisions.

Arguments like "Our trucks are all privately owned too, like motorhomes" don't really wash. Motorhomes are usually used by private individuals for leisure purposes whilst recovery trucks are almost invariably used for business purposes.

The point meant when I said privately owned was meant simply as that, I own my truck, so do many others ranging from just a few to over 100, it's all relative. I lose my truck, i'm out of work. We refuse to fit a filter also places us out of work....new trucks? see previous post.
We have pointed out that specialist vehicles such as Motorhomes are rarely used in London, are often low mileage and to replace is unfair considering the costs etc. The safety aspect of this particular filter cannot be ignored.
Motorhomes will naturally head towards the open road and it is known that DPF filters will work in that environment, unlike our industry working in and around London at low speed, stop start and of course idling.

It is upto those affected by the LEZ to either take or leave advice from whatever source it comes from. I like to work on known facts and solid evidence rather than what someone that sells the product may try to bull shite me with....we know the truth, that's good enough for us.

I feel sorry for the thousands of people that have sold vehicles that are in fact Compliant but due to TFL errors are now in debt or without their vehicles, that's wrong. Also the issue that TFL are saying that those already fitted with a Euro 3 particulate filter to meet the LEZ standards initially, now have to upgrade to a Euro 4 filter. As stated before, the letter that I have direct from Ken Livingstone clearly states otherwise....EURO 3 filter fitted?...That's it.

 

[Mavis]

Come January, If the nearest COMPLIANT truck was an extra 30 minutes away it was clear this person would of died. Seconds save lives. We do not want to strike. Soon Boris may have blood on his hands.


Dont forget that this is a European Directive Ken had to put it into place and Boris had to follow --Its working in Europe so we have no Clout now :Angry:
Link Removed

 

[harryoxford2]

Ok Im just dipping my toe in,and being an outsider from london I dont have the nightmare of living within all the zones that will be placed there eventually.

My solution to all the zones and congestion polution etc is simple...I stopped ever going to london 20 years ago.....I hope London goes into economic melt down and is never heard from again.

This is not a lone view, also why waste time delivering things to buisnesses in walking zones or no go zones except after 7pm....too much hastle let them come to you if they want the stuff.
the only way to survive is not to be in London, move to premises at a 20th of the cost see your margins rise and your business succeed..simples.

London is dying and its design will be for paper workers only..let em have it.

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[GJH]

You will find that the Council have sorted their vehicles out a long time ago.

Exactly Mavis. They knew it was coming and, like the vast majority of people, did something about it.

The point meant when I said privately owned was meant simply as that, I own my truck, so do many others ranging from just a few to over 100, it's all relative.

With respect, that is not private ownership. There is a difference between a sole trader owning a vehicle (or several vehicles) and a private individual owning a vehicle.

The fact is that all sides of the political spectrum agree with the LEZ being introduced. As Mavis says, Boris introduced a review/postponement but it was always only that.

As regards differences between implementation in this country and in Germany, there are goodness knows how many differences between this country and in Germany. We cannot pick and choose which equalities we would like. It would be just as valid a political argument for a German green campaigner to point to London and proclaim that the German charges are too soft.

Motorhomes, in general, are quite properly included because, as TfL rightly point out, they use the same engines as delivery vans and the like. The only injustice is visited on private residents who already owned non-compliant motorhomes and, unlike companies, had no opportunity to recover costs by increasing prices.

 

[Red Sonja]

I have been reading these posts and getting angrier and angrier.

Why is it that the French can ignore European Policy when it suits them. Why can the Germans also do it as well.

I really feel for individuals and Sole Traders who will shortly own non compliant vehicles. Many will be put out of business. Buy a new Truck say some What a load of Tosh. There are many small business people including recovery services who will go out of business in the New Year.

There will be many people fined who know nothing about the LEZ. They will make the mistake of coming into the Zone in a vehicle that is non compliant.

Many people with utility vehicles only realised they were non compliant when they received a letter a few months ago.

My Son who had recently bought a van for his plumbing business also received a letter saying his vehicle was non compliant. We have a non compliant Motorhome that is a 2004 model. Buy a compliant van say some OK someone lend us the £15,000 to upgrade to one that needs to registered after September 2007. We have friends who live within the Zone have the same engine on the same chasis but their vehicle is registered under 3.5 so its compliant. If I downrate my vehicle it will compliant. Same vehicle, same emissions.

As I say its a load of Tosh and they will change the rules again to make more vehicles non compliant.

Keep up the Good work Risky R. There are many behind you on this site :thumb: When the LEZ hits towns and other areas outside of London I wonder how many other will wish they supported us.

Sonja

 

[Viennese]

But

only 3 funsters turned up for the protest at City Hall on 26 October - very poor turnout in spite of my advertising it on here!

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