Lovely time in Skipton after parking incident in Ripon the other week

Jun 10, 2011
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After our little parking incident in Ripon last week the wife and I decided to go to Ripon and meet up with some good friends.

They're not motorhomers so they had to stay in a hotel, so us being tight Yorkshire folk called the hotel to ask if we could sleep the night in their car park. "No problem at all" they replied.

The end result was that we had a wonderful time with our friends, the hotel earned about £300 in lodgings, meals and drinks, and we've been telling everyone what a great place it was. And I'm absolutely sure we will return in the not too distant future.

If anyone is interested it is a pub restaurant called The Hermit, and it is in a little hamlet called Elsac just outside of Skipton. It is VERY popular and I can understand why as the food is first class, the prices are fair, and the staff are absolutely superb.
 

funflair

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I think you mean you went to Skipton to meet with friends.

Not being pedantic just proving that I read your post:roflmto:.

Pleased that you had a good time and that the pub/restaurant has a sensible attitude to car park use.

Don't tell too many people though as it might end up full:ROFLMAO:.

Martin
 
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yorkieman
Jun 10, 2011
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I think you mean you went to Skipton to meet with friends.

Don't tell too many people though as it might end up full:ROFLMAO:.

Martin

You are absolutely right, but hey, if they all benefit from the wonderful hospitality we received then it has got to be good to share. It all helps keep the economy going.

And I'd rather give the money to private enterprise than to councils who seem to be fleecing us left, right and centre these days to fund goodness knows what. Probably some junkets to sunny locations.

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GJH

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I think you mean you went to Skipton to meet with friends.

Not being pedantic just proving that I read your post:roflmto:.

Pleased that you had a good time and that [HI]the pub/restaurant has a sensible attitude to car park use.[/HI]

Don't tell too many people though as it might end up full:ROFLMAO:.

Martin

As long as they limit usage to one van at a time and no more than 28 nights in a 12 month period of course :winky:
 

funflair

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As long as they limit usage to one van at a time and no more than 28 nights in a 12 month period of course :winky:

I will take your word on that, do you think that they know:Smile:

Martin

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yorkieman
Jun 10, 2011
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Some do, some don't. Some who do decide they are above the law :Smile:

I really doubt they'd mind if you were spending £60 in the bar and restaurant every day. Heck, if that were the case I think they'd let you stop all year round :Smile:
 
Nov 18, 2011
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I would have kept it to my shelf some one will screw that up the name of that hotel is on every uk forum within moments of you postings don't expect to get back soon
and you probably will have to be in brite stops or one of the other stopover book thing's bet there sighing them up now :ROFLMAO:
bill

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GJH

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I really doubt they'd mind if you were spending £60 in the bar and restaurant every day. Heck, if that were the case I think they'd let you stop all year round :Smile:

I'm sure some (if not that particular pub) would. Doesn't help the honest caravan site owners who obtain a licence instead of just deciding the law doesn't apply to them though does it? :Smile:
 

FULL TIMER

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Is there really a legal problem, if they are not charging for camping what is the difference between some one kipping in a car overnight on the car park or some one being prepared for a bit more comfort.
 

GJH

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Is there really a legal problem, if they are not charging for camping what is the difference between some one kipping in a car overnight on the car park or some one being prepared for a bit more comfort.
Whether one defines it as a problem or not is up to the individual but breaching the limits on number of vans and/or number of nights undoubtedly does breach the 1960 Act.

"not charging for camping" is debatable as they are obtaining extra profit from meals/drinks that would otherwise not accrue.

We recently discussed the crack down on CLs to insist that they are used by members of the certificating organisation only. Why should pubs get away with, effectively, running unlicensed caravan sites whilst CLs and licensed sites face restrictions? Logically it's the same as (e.g.) people selling booze in unlicensed clubs or grey import cigarettes and damages legitimate businesses.

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I don't know anything about the law but I imagine its the old parking versus camping argument. I suppose the argument is you are not 'camping' in the pub (or whatever) car park but merely 'parking' albeit you are asleep inside.

I believe its a similar arrangement in France where, in theory, you are not supposed to get your table and chairs out while parked on aires because that would then be classified as camping.

We have used the excellent Britstops (www.britstops.com) guide quite a bit and think its an excellent idea.

I think there is too much doom and gloom about, if it is indeed 'illegal' to park your motorhome in a car park overnight while spending your money in the local area then the law is, as they say, 'an ass'.

Paul
 
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yorkieman
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I would have kept it to my shelf some one will screw that up the name of that hotel is on every uk forum within moments of you postings don't expect to get back soon
and you probably will have to be in brite stops or one of the other stopover book thing's bet there sighing them up now :ROFLMAO:
bill

I agree Bill.

I just went back to the post to see if I could edit the name out, but it looks like I can no longer edit the original post (which is understandable).

Maybe if a moderator is reading this they could just replace the name and place with XXX. Thanks!
 
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yorkieman
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I think there is too much doom and gloom about, if it is indeed 'illegal' to park your motorhome in a car park overnight while spending your money in the local area then the law is, as they say, 'an ass'.

Paul

I totally agree. We need to be a bit more chilled out about things in this country.

As long as we leave a place as tidy (or tidier) than when we arrived, and we don't inconvenience any nearby residences in any way, then I really can't see what the problem is.

Maybe we need something like this, but for motorhomers:

http://www.geocaching.com/cito/default.aspx

My wife and I always make a point of bagging up any litter we find nearby (i.e. other people's litter) and so leaving the place better than we found it. It makes us feel warm all over and hopefully, even in just a small way, I hope it makes people feel good about motorhomers in general - as in my experience most motorhomers are great people.

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GJH

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I don't know anything about the law but I imagine its the old parking versus camping argument. I suppose the argument is you are not 'camping' in the pub (or whatever) car park but merely 'parking' albeit you are asleep inside.

I believe its a similar arrangement in France where, in theory, you are not supposed to get your table and chairs out while parked on aires because that would then be classified as camping.

We have used the excellent Britstops (www.britstops.com) guide quite a bit and think its an excellent idea.

I think there is too much doom and gloom about, if it is indeed 'illegal' to park your motorhome in a car park overnight while spending your money in the local area then the law is, as they say, 'an ass'.

Paul
The parking v camping argument is totally spurious and carries no weight; we all know the difference. The fact that the law is different in France is also weightless (though I suppose we could demand an EU directive to make the same throughout Europe ::bigsmile:)

Britstops is subject to the same legislation (Steve has posted, himself, that the listed venues must comply with the number and time limits to operate legally).

The law may be an ass (and that is, naturally, open to debate :Smile:) but until it is changed then we have to work within it, just like any other legislation.
 
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yorkieman
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The law may be an ass (and that is, naturally, open to debate :Smile:) but until it is changed then we have to work within it, just like any other legislation.

Hmmm. Just like the Italians, Spanish and French obey the letter of the law when it comes to EU directives.

Sometimes, the only way a law is over turned is to make a stand. Has it not been that way throughout history.

The problem these days is nobody can be bothered to make a stand :Smile:
 

Puddleduck

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The legislation is there for a reason - say there was (heaven forbid) a fire on what is effectively an unlicensed campsite, then what?

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GJH

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Hmmm. Just like the Italians, Spanish and French obey the letter of the law when it comes to EU directives.

Sometimes, the only way a law is over turned is to make a stand. Has it not been that way throughout history.

The problem these days is nobody can be bothered to make a stand :Smile:

1. The 1960 Act has nothing to do with EU directives.
2. The attitude of the populations of other countries has no bearing on this discussion.
3. Some of us have been making a stand for several years and that is how changes - slow but they are there - have come about.

Making a stand positively has a chance of working. Whinging about unfairness and throwing insults around (e.g. jobsworths, allegations that councillors are bent) achieves nothing.
 

Puddleduck

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When you want legislation to be changed the way to do it is to have proper arguments built on solid facts backing up the what, why and wherefore. Slinging around insults is likely to be counterproductive.

Finding out the background of the original legislation and how that can be incorporated into the change or a very good reason for why it no longer applies also helps.

Stunts may bring publicity but they also annoy and upset people. Far better to have a steady and reasonable campaign.

I've been working with local councillors and road safety people for some years to get better signage on a dangerous corner on a local road where there have been several accidents but (thank goodness) no fatalities. I have managed to get the road markings changed and renewed. When it came up for discussion at a roads meeting in February one local resident kicked off and, as a result the committee had it's collective back put up.... so no new signs and another accident. I really believe that if he had kept quiet the new signs would have been ordered and erected and the latest accident possibly avoided.
 
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yorkieman
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1. The 1960 Act has nothing to do with EU directives.
2. The attitude of the populations of other countries has no bearing on this discussion.
3. Some of us have been making a stand for several years and that is how changes - slow but they are there - have come about.

Making a stand positively has a chance of working. Whinging about unfairness and throwing insults around (e.g. jobsworths, allegations that councillors are bent) achieves nothing.

1. I never said it did. I was just using the general attitude of Europeans to EU directives as an example of how silly regulations are overlooked and people just get on with their lives.

2. Maybe you still consider yourself a little Englander. Personally, I'm all for a more global approach to life and the freedom to live as we want without bureaucrats dictating the minutiae of our lives. Don't you think it has gone far too far in this country to the point where our civil liberties have been seriously eroded over the last four decades.

3. That's great, but if anything the change has all been in the wrong direction. Oh yes, there might have been the odd improvement, but from what I can see the number of car parks that don't allow motorhomes has increased dramatically over the last three decades, and the number of towns who cater for motorhomes is forever decreasing.

Having worked in local government for many years I can honestly say I have no faith at all in their ability to get things done in an efficient, cost effective and fair manner. Most of the people working for local government are more bothered about their own agenda and political future than they are about meeting the needs of the public. That's not to say there are not some WONDERFUL people working in local and national government too - THERE ARE - but most of them as disillusioned by the whole thing as the rest of the population which is borne out by the number of people who vote in elections. The fact that more people vote for the XFactor winner than for local elections pretty much says it all ::bigsmile:

I really admire your faith in our political system GJH. I wish I still had a belief that the political powers that be are - as a whole - acting in our best interests and not their own.

if you're up for some good old fashioned political action why don't we all take out motorhomes down to London and have a peaceful protest through the streets of London. And whilst we're at it we could have a litter pick enroute just to show everyone that the vast majority of motorhomers are good, thoughtful and kind people ::bigsmile:

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GJH

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1. I never said it did. I was just using the general attitude of Europeans to EU directives as an example of how silly regulations are overlooked and people just get on with their lives.
The real difference is that governments in other countries tend to use derogations appropriately, this safeguarding national traditions. That has happened rather less here.

2. Maybe you still consider yourself a little Englander. Personally, I'm all for a more global approach to life and the freedom to live as we want without bureaucrats dictating the minutiae of our lives. Don't you think it has gone far too far in this country to the point where our civil liberties have been seriously eroded over the last four decades.
Not a little Englander but we are talking about specific UK legislation which is nothing to do with other countries. As regards "the freedom to live as we want" and "civil liberties", they apply to everyone not just we who own motorhomes. Those who do not sometimes consider that the actions of some motorhomers encroach on their "freedom to live as we want" and "civil liberties".

3. That's great, but if anything the change has all been in the wrong direction. Oh yes, there might have been the odd improvement, but from what I can see the number of car parks that don't allow motorhomes has increased dramatically over the last three decades, and the number of towns who cater for motorhomes is forever decreasing.
Given the experience of running www.motorhomeparking.co.uk for almost 8 years I can assure you that is not the case.

Having worked in local government for many years I can honestly say I have no faith at all in their ability to get things done in an efficient, cost effective and fair manner. Most of the people working for local government are more bothered about their own agenda and political future than they are about meeting the needs of the public. That's not to say there are not some WONDERFUL people working in local and national government too - THERE ARE - but most of them as disillusioned by the whole thing as the rest of the population which is borne out by the number of people who vote in elections. The fact that more people vote for the XFactor winner than for local elections pretty much says it all ::bigsmile:

I really admire your faith in our political system GJH. I wish I still had a belief that the political powers that be are - as a whole - acting in our best interests and not their own.

if you're up for some good old fashioned political action why don't we all take out motorhomes down to London and have a peaceful protest through the streets of London. And whilst we're at it we could have a litter pick enroute just to show everyone that the vast majority of motorhomers are good, thoughtful and kind people ::bigsmile:
I worked in local government for several decades so saw the good and the bad but I am not going to become sidetracked into any argument based on that.

I have stated my point of view. If anyone else wants to sling insults, whinge and set up stunts that is up to them.
 
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yorkieman
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As regards "the freedom to live as we want" and "civil liberties", they apply to everyone not just we who own motorhomes. Those who do not sometimes consider that the actions of some motorhomers encroach on their "freedom to live as we want" and "civil liberties".

You are absolutely right GJH!

I suppose it is like most things in life. The vast majority of motorhomers (I'd go so far as to say 98%+) are great people, who would never go out of their way to offend or upset anyone. It is only a VERY small number who would leave litter, annoy people with loud music, or behave in any kind of loutish fashion. At least that's my experience.

As for the rest of what I said - thanks for taking it in good spirit. I was just having a mid-morning rant. I'm back to normal now ::bigsmile:
 

Puddleduck

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"The freedom to live as we want"...... that opens up a whole can of worms doesn't it? One person's "traditional" way of life could seriously upset other members of society in today's multicultural Britain. That's why we have legislation of course......

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yorkieman
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"The freedom to live as we want"...... that opens up a whole can of worms doesn't it? One person's "traditional" way of life could seriously upset other members of society in today's multicultural Britain. That's why we have legislation of course......

Good point :Smile:
 
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