Looking for two batteries

[wp1234]

Does anyone have any experience of Alpha Batteries own brand Carbon batteries .Seem a good bet with loads of cycles and a 5 year warranty.

 

[Cush]

Sorry no answer for you but following with great interest. May I ask what you are replacing? And what sort of onboard charger you have?

hope You get some review info soon
Cush

 

[funflair]

I can't see that on their web site at all, do you have a link?

 

[wp1234]

I can't see that on their web site at all, do you have a link?

Yes hope this works for you

12V 110AH Expedition Plus Lead Carbon Gel Ultra Deep Cycle Battery (EXP12-110C) - Alpha Batteries

Ultra Deep Cycle Lead Carbon GEL Battery

www.alpha-batteries.co.uk

The description is

12V 110AH Expedition Plus Lead Carbon Gel Ultra Deep Cycle Battery (EXP12-110C)​

 

[wp1234]

Sorry no answer for you but following with great interest. May I ask what you are replacing? And what sort of onboard charger you have?

hope You get some review info soon
Cush

Replacing Victron Gels and charger is the CBE 520 .

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[funflair]

Well I can't find much about the battery, I think they are taking a slight liberty calling 110ah as that is at the 100hr rate, I think 20 hr rate is a more usual benchmark and this would then be 100ah.

It doesn't help your choice but I think that this is who makes them, https://www.bravabatteries.com/product/12v100ah-deep-cycle-gel-battery/

 

[Ed Scratcher]

I am also looking for 2 batteries of 100ah-ish to replace 1 yuasa 100ah C10, I had hoped to use a lithium battery (see ‘do I need b2b to use lithium’).
Unfortunately my Sargent E400 PSU isn’t up to lithium, and the complication + cost to upgrade is more than it’s worth for my occasional off grid need.
So back to the drawing board, and I am thinking of the lead carbon gel batteries - but although the Sargent blurb say the E400 supports AGM - there is no mention of gel. There is lots of conflicting info out there, it would be great if someone is using gel with a Sargent E400 successfully and could reassure me, but I’m probably going ahead anyway, so if you go for these batteries it would be good to hear how you get on?
Phew, sorry to go on - and hijack your thread.

 

[Cush]

I am also looking for 2 batteries of 100ah-ish to replace 1 yuasa 100ah C10, I had hoped to use a lithium battery (see ‘do I need b2b to use lithium’).
Unfortunately my Sargent E400 PSU isn’t up to lithium, and the complication + cost to upgrade is more than it’s worth for my occasional off grid need.
So back to the drawing board, and I am thinking of the lead carbon gel batteries - but although the Sargent blurb say the E400 supports AGM - there is no mention of gel. There is lots of conflicting info out there, it would be great if someone is using gel with a Sargent E400 successfully and could reassure me, but I’m probably going ahead anyway, so if you go for these batteries it would be good to hear how you get on?
Phew, sorry to go on - and hijack your thread.

Ed Scratcher. Got to say I have no experience of your PSU so a big health warning with this info, but if it was me ….
i think you should be ok with lead carbons as your charger will go up to 14+ volts. Worth emailing Sargent too. They are usually very good to respond. Good luck,
Cush

https://sargentltd.co.uk/shop/product/172/tech-spec/71

 

[wp1234]

I am also looking for 2 batteries of 100ah-ish to replace 1 yuasa 100ah C10, I had hoped to use a lithium battery (see ‘do I need b2b to use lithium’).
Unfortunately my Sargent E400 PSU isn’t up to lithium, and the complication + cost to upgrade is more than it’s worth for my occasional off grid need.
So back to the drawing board, and I am thinking of the lead carbon gel batteries - but although the Sargent blurb say the E400 supports AGM - there is no mention of gel. There is lots of conflicting info out there, it would be great if someone is using gel with a Sargent E400 successfully and could reassure me, but I’m probably going ahead anyway, so if you go for these batteries it would be good to hear how you get on?
Phew, sorry to go on - and hijack your threa

 

[ChrisL]

I have three of those from Alpha fitted for two years, absolutely no issues so far, they weigh around 30kgs each though so as long as weight isn't an issue you should definitely give them some consideration. They charge a bit quicker than regular gel batteries but not as quickly as lead carbon agm, however the agm batteries state charging from 0c whereas the gels can be charged from -20c. I'm very happy with mine and would by them again, also if you ring Alpha ask them for a discount if you buy two, they gave me a discount for three.

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[ChrisL]

Well I can't find much about the battery, I think they are taking a slight liberty calling 110ah as that is at the 100hr rate, I think 20 hr rate is a more usual benchmark and this would then be 100ah.

It doesn't help your choice but I think that this is who makes them, https://www.bravabatteries.com/product/12v100ah-deep-cycle-gel-battery/

They are made by Ritar (a Chinese company) in Vietnam.

 

[Stealaway]

They seem to have a mega cycle capacity and a good quick charging capacity. But they have no more than the standard output of an ordinary lead acid 110ah battery. - Which wouldn't be enough for me. I have 2x 130 Ah lead acid that only just manage my daily demands.

 

[Cush]

They seem to have a mega cycle capacity and a good quick charging capacity. But they have no more than the standard output of an ordinary lead acid 110ah battery. - Which wouldn't be enough for me. I have 2x 130 Ah lead acid that only just manage my daily demands.

if they can cope with deeper discharge than 50% of normal lead acids would that not give you more capacity. I was under the impression that they can be taken lower. Happy to be corrected.

 

[funflair]

if they can cope with deeper discharge than 50% of normal lead acids would that not give you more capacity. I was under the impression that they can be taken lower. Happy to be corrected.

I think you can go down to 80% discharge but it halves the cycle life.

 

[wp1234]

They seem to have a mega cycle capacity and a good quick charging capacity. But they have no more than the standard output of an ordinary lead acid 110ah battery. - Which wouldn't be enough for me. I have 2x 130 Ah lead acid that only just manage my daily demands.

But you can take a Gel down to 80% and a lead acid only to 50% ! You have 130Ah total the two Gels have over 160 Ah total or am I missing something ?.

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[Stealaway]

But you can take a Gel down to 80% and a lead acid only to 50% ! You have 130Ah total the two Gels have over 160 Ah total or am I missing something ?.

I thought these where some kind of carbon battery - not Gel batteries.
But out of interest -
What voltage would you safely take your Gel batteries down to without permanent damage?

 

[Cush]

I am starting to get confused. Are all gels lead-carbon gels?

is it fair to say that a Lead-Carbon, whether it’s gel or Agm, can be taken below 50% state of charge but with associated impacted to the number of charge cycles remaining. However, a standard AGM / Gel Shouldnt be taken below 50%

Cush

 

[Stealaway]

My lead acid batteries are rated at 200 cycles.
Full to flat or any combination.
If I only half flatten them to 12.2 volts then I would expect 400 cycle before they need replacing.
That's why I continually monitor my voltage meter.
As we tend to spend around 110 night a year out and off grid that means my batteries should last me four years plus..
My last set was over four years old before I sold the van.

 

[headlight]

My lead acid batteries are rated at 200 cycles.
Full to flat or any combination.
If I only half flatten them to 12.2 volts then I would expect 400 cycle before they need replacing.
That's why I continually monitor my voltage meter.

That's obviously as long as each charge cycle reaches float the day after discharge.
An advantage of lead carbons is they don't sulphate if left partially charged.
So if you discharge lead carbons and then due to poor weather they don't reach float for a few days it doesn't matter where as those few days of not being fully charged will affect lead acids.
Not a lot admittedly but over time it does add up and affect their life.
Lead acids really want to be fully charged as soon after discharge as possible ie the next day

 

[Stealaway]

That's obviously as long as each charge cycle reaches float the day after discharge.
An advantage of lead carbons is they don't sulphate if left partially charged.
So if you discharge lead carbons and then due to poor weather they don't reach float for a few days it doesn't matter where as those few days of not being fully charged will affect lead acids.
Not a lot admittedly but over time it does add up and affect their life.
Lead acids really want to be fully charged as soon after discharge as possible ie the next day

My batteries need to be charged every day either by driving some miles or via the solar panels.
If I don't manage to fully charge that day (which is very rare) then we have to turn off the TV early - once the voltage meter drops to 12.2 volts

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[VXman]

My batteries need to be charged every day either by driving some miles or via the solar panels.
If I don't manage to fully charge that day (which is very rare) then we have to turn off the TV early - once the voltage meter drops to 12.2 volts

Having done some extensive tests on battery voltage with a multi meter I found our Burstner control panel to read 0.2-0.3 volts below the multimeter reading. 12.2 on my control panel would read 12.5 on my meter. I have a Victron mttp solar controllor now with bluetooth app. That agrees with the multimeter and not the Burstner panel.

If you are living that close to the edge I'd invest in a shunt so you can get more accurate info.

 

[ChrisL]

I am starting to get confused. Are all gels lead-carbon gels?

is it fair to say that a Lead-Carbon, whether it’s gel or Agm, can be taken below 50% state of charge but with associated impacted to the number of charge cycles remaining. However, a standard AGM / Gel Shouldnt be taken below 50%

Cush

All gels are not lead carbon, lead carbon batteries have carbon mixed in with the lead in the negative plate reducing the risk of sulphation this is why you will notice the increased cycle life that these batteries are predicted to have, the carbon also gives a faster charge and discharge capability, both the gel and agm varieties can be discharged below 50% repeatedly without shortening their cycle life significantly. The advantages of gel over agm are that they can be charged in temperatures as low as -20c whereas the agm batteries data sheet says charge from 0c both can be discharged at low temperatures, the advantage of the agm lead carbon is they can be charged quicker then the gel, both types need slightly different charge routines so chargers, b2b and solar need to be set to the correct battery type.

 

[garry63]

Does anyone have any experience of Alpha Batteries own brand Carbon batteries .Seem a good bet with loads of cycles and a 5 year warranty.

View attachment 739035

Hi
I was going for these at alpha but decided on 1 200ah in this range as I had room for it £360. Bit weighty at 50kg but saved on having to buy extra bits to connect 2 batteries. I had to get a smart charger as my onboard did not support gel battery.
Alpha batteries are a really good company I would definitely recommend as tell them what you are trying to do and they will advise what you need and not just try to sell what they make most money on

 

[chaser]

Can't comment on the batteries but have had loads of ordinary batteries off them in the past and have to say always had excellent service.

 

[Spriddler]

I found our Burstner control panel to read 0.2-0.3 volts below the multimeter reading. 12.2 on my control panel would read 12.5 on my meter.

I had the same result with a disparity between the Anxiety Panel and a meter on the battery terminals.
It was due to voltage loss due to undersized wiring between the battery and the panel. Easily sorted.

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[Stealaway]

Having done some extensive tests on battery voltage with a multi meter I found our Burstner control panel to read 0.2-0.3 volts below the multimeter reading. 12.2 on my control panel would read 12.5 on my meter. I have a Victron mttp solar controllor now with bluetooth app. That agrees with the multimeter and not the Burstner panel.

If you are living that close to the edge I'd invest in a shunt so you can get more accurate info.

Even if it's not that accurate ) I have found the same difference with the Burstner voltage meters ) it is still providing a gauge .
It also reads low which I happy with.

 

[wp1234]

They seem to have a mega cycle capacity and a good quick charging capacity. But they have no more than the standard output of an ordinary lead acid 110ah battery. - Which wouldn't be enough for me. I have 2x 130 Ah lead acid that only just manage my daily demands.

Can I ask why the output isn’t enough for your needs , are you running something that need more?

 

[headlight]

My batteries need to be charged every day either by driving some miles or via the solar panels.
If I don't manage to fully charge that day (which is very rare) then we have to turn off the TV early - once the voltage meter drops to 12.2 volts

Bear in mind that if that 12.2v reading is with a load on the batteries then actual voltage will be higher as when you turn the load off the voltage will bounce back, probably to around 12.4v with no load.
Not trying to teach my granny how to suck eggs

 

[Stealaway]

Can I ask why the output isn’t enough for your needs , are you running something that need more?

Every day I need enough charge up my two 130ah to be able to watch my 28" Samsung TV with sound bar through my inverter for three hours.
As long as I do a few miles and there's a bit of sun during the day I'm almost always ok.
I have no control over how much charge I can get into my batteries but I can control how much a take out - via the voltmeter.

 

[headlight]

I run a 24' mains TV from an inverter. It uses less than 4 amps per hour and is my biggest electricity use.

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