Living Van (1 Viewer)

[Brakers]

Hi There not sure if this has been brought up before but I’ve just seen this.

This is posted verbatim.

I have just seen this new thread over on another MH site.

I believe quite a few of us on here carry either a motorbike or motor-scooter in a garage at the back of your van, if you do and if this can be believed, this could well affect you: -
Just passing on what I've read on a Facebook forum....

Some guy in a self built campervan, registered with DVLA as a motorcaravan, but carrying a motorcross bike in the garage was pulled randomly by VOSA and then been "done" - as VOSA say using the campervan to transport a motorbike makes it not a campervan - it become a "living van" and needs different MOT, taxation class, speed limits etc.

DON'T SHOOT THE MESSENGER - I know no more than that! But reading https://www.ukmotorhomes.net/motorhome-faqs/motorhome-mots gives a bit more info, and specifically lower down when the author contacted the authorities and appear to had it confirmed if there is a "garage" for storage of a motorbike (or car) - so like racevans or, technically, includes an A class with a moped in the garage!

I'd never heard of this, but with one known person being pulled and prosecuted for it (when he thought he was complying with all laws) - then it is reality. Apparently he is seeing his solicitor but who knows what will happen.

Anyone else heard of this before?

 

[Figaro]

Only had time to scan read article but I'd guess you could claim carrying a scooter was necessary to your occupation of the motorhome so is not what they class as a living van.
Interesting though...
I'd be amazed if there was any intention by VOSA to prosecute motorhomers on this.
Might just be down to a jobsworth ?

 

[jezport]

Theoretically even bikes could be construed as not complaint to the legislation. But how many cops know the law on this properly ?

 

[tacr2man]

Hes not having a lot of luck is he , after being gassed and someone nicking his A frame

 

[Nasher]

This article is from 2006

There is no class of vehicle called 'Living Van'

And anyway, I only use my classic race bike as a mobility scooter

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[Just smiffy]

@Geo would know..?

 

[2657]

This article is from 2006

There is no class of vehicle called 'Living Van'

And anyway, I only use my classic race bike as a mobility scooter

I think that @vwalan may disagree!

 

[Minxy]

Without knowing the outcome it's difficult to believe that what he was apparently fined for was actually correct, so I suspect it was wrong in the first place.

I can't see it being an offence for your average motorhome owner as a lot of what is carried could be construed as 'goods' but anyone doing so as part of a business 'may' have to prove that what they have on board isn't related to a business if they don't have 'business use' on their insurance, but that's nothing to do with the MOT.

 

[Brakers]

Hi This is a reply someone on another site got from DVSA in February this year

Thank you for your email dated 3 February 2019, concerning carrying a motorised scooter in a motorhome.


DVSA can only provide advice for the MOT regulations, and, for the purpose of the MOT test, your vehicle is likely to be classed as a living van if it is carrying a motorcycle in a carrier at its rear.

A 'Motor Caravan' has installed equipment and facilities necessary for the vehicle to provide living accommodation and which only carries goods needed for the purposes of residence in the vehicle (e.g. sufficient food for expected length of holiday, cycles, surfboards etc). They could even carry something like a scooter, if is used for the purpose of residence in the vehicle (the scooter could be used for shopping because of the size of the caravan). Regardless of weight, they would come under Class IV.

Living Vans are vehicles used for carrying goods which are NOT needed for the purposes of residence in the motor caravan (e.g. a motor caravan used as a van to carry quantities of goods from one place to another, or a motor caravan which also has an area set aside to carry horses). These vehicles can be tested as Class IV, VII or HGV depending on the Design Gross Weight.

Section 192 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 defines ‘goods’ as ‘goods or burden of any description’. As such, ‘goods’ is not a term restricted solely to items carried for gain or reward. It is our view, therefore, that bikes or cars carried in a designated area on a vehicle should be regarded as goods and that vehicles which have the capacity to carry such items within them have to be regarded as living vans and not motor caravans.

Smaller living vans (under 3,500kgs) can be MOT tested as Class IV or Class VII vehicles depending on their weight. The first MOT test would be required from the third year following registration and then every year thereafter. However, many living vans are outside the scope of MOT testing as they exceed 3,500kgs in weight. These heavier living vans should be tested at a DVSA goods vehicle testing station under the Goods Vehicles (Plating and Testing) Regulations 1988. Such vehicles must be tested annually from the first year following registration.

For further information on the legality of carrying a motorcycle on a carrier, you will need to address your enquiry to the Department for Transport, as they deal with the Construction and Use Regulations and Road Law.

The Department for Transport can be telephoned on 0300 330 3000, e-mailed (for construction & use requirements) via ivs.enquiries@dft.gsi.gov.ukor you can visit their website here for further contact details.
Best Wishes Tony

 

[Hollyberry]

Sounds like a jobsworth to me.
Ive never heard of the classification " living van"
How about if a motorhome owner stored items other than a bike in their garage? A bit if tinned food, some spare boots, raincoat and a bike --- surely then it's just another storage area useful on your holiday ?

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[Lenny HB]

Is it because it was a Motocross bike and not a road bike therefore classed as goods.
If you carry goods in a Motorhome you then need the vehicle plating every year from year one, Class IV not doesn't apply as it will be treated as goods vehicle.

 

[Brakers]

Sounds like a jobsworth to me.

Don’t know about jobs worth but all I can see this makes another thing in MHING very ambitious and I for one wish there were straightforward guidelines that were clear to all concerned who drive MH’s so it is black and white and no in between.
Best Wishes Tony

 

[Geo]

I can confirm the as it was the VOSA had a purge on this very subject
and at about the same time a purge on front driver and passenger Lap belts in American RVs
I can also confirm that they came to the firm conclusion that.

1. Vehicle adapted to carry goods as in @Brakers post above are indeed living vans the bike need not be inside either
the deciding factor seemed to be fitting a bike rack constituted an adaption.

2. they also decreed lap belts were an unacceptable form of restraint
Many were forced or decided to fit 3 point, belts many ignored the regulation on the grounds that this many of this particular type of MoHo was exempt from belts anyway but VOSA insisted they were right in arriving at that decision.

The furore lasted a year or so then died a natural death, as it seemed not many testers could grasp the nuances of the rules and simply past or advised a few testers had hands slapped during inspections and spot checks

It should be noted that VOSA as it was and the DVSA as it is now, do not make any rules at all for the MoT Scheme.
They all come direct from Government via the department for Transport, who decipher what Europe laws require us to do
they in turn pass it on to DVSA who interpret what the DfT mean by their interpretation, and how to best implement the rules.
Some come out totally wrong, those they can not make work get spoken about and then shelved an some just get buried.
Maybe you can now sympathise with your Tester a little, at the end of the day he has to try and make sense of what the hierarchy want him to do

 

[nicholsong]

Some points are not clear from the OP post

Was the Motocross bike roadworthy and licensed, or carried only for competition?

Was the 'pulled by VOSA(presumably DVSA if recent) at a roadside check or at a random check by DVSA of a MOT Testing Station?

What was the owner prosecuted for - was it for wrong MOT Class? If not, for what?

Who prosecuted - DVSA or Police? Was it referred to CPS?

All needs clarifying to comment further.

Geoff

 

[JJ]

Don't you just LOVE the internet and all the stuff you can find on it?

Would you believe that I found an article that stated Thatcher was innocent, Blair was a Labour politician, and that insurance companies are only interested in protecting their clients for as little cost as possible?


JJ

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[Barclaybasher]

So the fitted kitchen complete with worktops, oven, hob and sink I took to Spain in the garage of my MH last year was illegal?

Oops....

 

[Barclaybasher]

Don't you just LOVE the internet and all the stuff you can find on it?

Would you believe that I found an article that stated Thatcher was innocent, Blair was a Labour politician, and that insurance companies are only interested in protecting their clients for as little cost as possible?
JJ

Yes I found an article saying Barclays was a nice bank.....







Not really

 

[Nasher]

Yes I found an article saying Barclays was a nice bank.....







Not really

You weren't looking hard enough

 

[tacr2man]

Its all quite simple , Goods eg 100 litres of wine , and 50 bottles of beer
Drink yourself , needed to live in motorhome Motorcaravan OK
Sell to someone , not for living in motorhome Living Van