Lithium battery warning ELECTRIC BIKES

[Techno]

I’ve never witnessed this before but now I have so be informed !!
This wasn’t even on charge but stored in a belly locker
Imagine the consequences if unattended.
The case contained the fire but the pawl of smoke at high pressure was huge

 

[Welsh girl]

Was that in the intense temperature last week?

 

[Techno]

It was today and I don’t think temperature was a cause

 

[jongood]

It was today and I don’t think temperature was a cause

So was the owner aware that it was faulty or did it just spontaneously combust?

 

[Techno]

Spontaneous yes

I would recommend given my knowledge of LiPo batteries that you store them at half charge if not going to be used

All my lipo batteries for my model boats use a sophisticated charger that has a storage charge setting

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[Robert Clark]

Looks like batteries from Volt bikes
Not cheapie ones
Would be i retested to learn what happened
Could it have been a short circuit maybe ?

 

[Techno]

Lipo batteries are chemical and notoriously a potential risk
See my last post

 

[Techno]

Btw never attempt to extinguish one or it will end in tears and certainly no water!
Stand back and let it burn out

 

[funflair]

So was the owner aware that it was faulty or did it just spontaneously combust?

Hi Jon

No visible reason for it and Jim and Sheila are OK ? but the van stinks.

Martin

 

[GPW]

Sad to see. This is always a hazard even with phone and laptops. The more capacity you have the more surface area to go wrong, so the more chance of a disaster.

I do regularly drone on about the risks but there you are, sometimes there's little choice but to take some risk and it's a shame to see the damage. Imagine your 100Ah leisure battery going up - think there would be anything left of the van? I don't.

The fires are usually spontaneous and stink, the safest state is at 'storage charge' which is 3.8V per cell for Lipos, not sure about other types of lithium cell. The most danger is during charging. I'm hoping one day the battery boffins work out a safer self-healing design.

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[Techno]

Yes and consider that the nominal voltage per cell is 3.7volts but at FULL charge 4.2volts

 

[GPW]

All my lipo batteries for my model boats use a sophisticated charger that has a storage charge setting

Ditto. I have them for model helicopters. Mine are stored at the balanced storage charge and kept inside R/C Lipo fireproof charging bags, under chunky metal drain covers on a concrete floor and still I worry about them.

 

[Techno]

Mine are in ammo boxes with the gaskets removed

 

[Gromett]

Please note: Do not confuse these type of high energy density lithium batteries with the more stable LiFePO4 chemistry. LiFePO4 is a lot more stable and really doesn't want to combust.

So when you are looking at (Leisure) batteries for your Motorhome they will usually be LiFePO4 as energy density is not so critical. For laptops, phones and bikes you really want high density to maximise capacity and therefore you will be using the more 'flammable' chemistries.

 

[GPW]

Please note: Do not confuse

Do you know what type was in the pack that went up in the original post ?

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[Techno]

Do you know what type was in the pack that went up in the original post ?

 

[GPW]

Li-Pol, Lithium Polymer then, less stable than LiFePO4.

Bit dodgy to have a Lipo that big stored in a van/house/office, that's a bit irresponsible to manufacture.

 

[Techno]

Yes but credit where it’s due
The casing contained the fire, never was a flame visible despite the very high pressure output of hot smoke
However the smoke could be deadly in a confined space and the possibility of causing a spread of fire exists

 

[thebriars]

Wonder how it was last charged?

 

[hilldweller]

As a matter if interest, today, the world's first MotoE race took place in Germany. I'm estimating 100kg of battery per bike.

One bike had an argument with the crash barriers and smoked. They said a red light comes on to indicate an electrical hazard, then only trained marshalls can attend. One did, with rubber gloves and sprayed it with some liquid. End of drama.

Here they are:

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[Gromett]

Do you know what type was in the pack that went up in the original post ?

Lithium polymer battery - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Then read this...

Lithium iron phosphate battery - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Techno]

Your point of relevance to the OP being?

 

[GPW]

Found a link to the Volt batteries:

E-Bikes Batteries | Volt Accessories

Buy batteries for all our Volt Electric Bikes. View full range of batteries below.

voltbikes.co.uk

Not sure if it's the same as the top is slightly different but the main bulk is the same.
It simply states Lithium-ion and cells made by Panasonic, the maker who teamed up with Tesla motors to make all the Tesla battery packs.

I'm now starting to think they were not Lipos but the 'safe' LiFePO4 cells.

 

[Techno]

Given the victim is 3 yrs old it’s unlikely to be LiFe

 

[Wellington]

So how should one safely store ones ebike batteries, if they are apt to go up in smoke with no user error?!

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[Gromett]

I'm now starting to think they were not Lipos but the 'safe' LiFePO4 cells.

From the page you linked to.

contain the highest energy-density power cells

As I mentioned before... LiFePO4 cells do not combust like that and they are not the highest energy-density.

LiFePO4 are cheaper to manufacture, more stable but have a lower energy density than other chemistries.
For a pushbike you want a decent energy density. Although the correct term I believe is specific energy...

By way of comparison, lead acid batteries are around 40Wh/kg..

I suspect that the ones used in the bikes are LiNiMnCoO2.

 

[Anthea M]

Thanks for the heads up Andy
We have an EBike with a battery like that, we will check!

 

[TinaLes]

Just discovered this shocking news/thread, Whilst I am very pleased there was no van up in flames, its lucky that the battery problem was identified early enough to remove it, albeit to watch it self destruct in a safer environment.
I have been storing our E bike batteries removed from the bikes, but inside one of the vans double floor compartments, now I am really concerned that its not the safest method of storage.
Our batteries are Bosch 16AMP Hour 36 volt (big things also) the chargers are the standard ones and do not have an option for " A Balanced Store Charge" or anyway of limiting the charging to only 50%.
I will remove them from the van, but apart from running them down by using them on the bikes to 50% charge, I dont see any other way of keeping them safely stored, which is worrying to say the least.
Now we know that these batteries should ideally be stored at 50% capacity it beggars belief that the bike battery manufacturers dont supply the appropriate chargers to enable the storage charge option?
Your views please
Les

 

[funflair]

I have just looked at one electric bike website and they say in their advantages for LiPo is that you can charge them straight back up after a ride and they are ready for next time, nothing about 50%

Martin

 

[Robert Clark]

Has the owner spoken to Volt ?
Would be interested to learn what they have to say

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