Lithium batteries - what do you make of this ? (1 Viewer)

[HandyAndy]

I think those don't have the inbuilt BMS. I think the ones he has are 120Ah with inbuilt BMS, priced at £1299.99 each.

Looks like the 'drop-in replacement' claim in the description is a tad optimistic. I couldn't follow exactly what he was saying about the BMS and the BMV, and suspect he occasionally mixed them up. A cautionary tale indeed.

The discharge graph from alpha batteries states 100ah

 

[NickandClair]

I have now watched a bit more of the video and I think @Lenny HB and @nickvanbitz are being polite about it.

Lol, you're being very polite with your response about my feelings on the video . In truth (and sorry to the person whom creating the video if they are watching this thread), it went something from laughter, to anger, to dumbfounded, to "Your Having A Laugh?!", to "who did your wiring?!". I've never felt such a bag of mixed emotions all in one day (what with the election result too ).
There we're far too many abnormalities to list regarding the install and far too much to pull apart. We have been working with both Sterling and Victron product for so long now, that when installed correctly and to the customer's requirements, they perform flawlessly.
I've had many a conversation to Bloggers and people in the trade and we all agree that it is important to have that dialog/consultation before you install the Lithium, as there are far too many variables to consider when installing them.................................... but when installed correctly will give great results.

 

[Raul]

Pausim
How do you charge your relion’s from the alternator? If you do.
Thank you.

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[Pausim]

Pausim
How do you charge your relion’s from the alternator? If you do.
Thank you.

Votronic 1212-45 B2B

 

[Raul]

Thank you for that.
I looked it up on the spec, and it’s got a preset for lfp, similar to sterling. That means you can’t do a custom voltage setting. I will have to see how I get on with the dc-dc Orion.

 

[Nixdorfer]

He didn't fill me with confidence that he really knew what he was doing tbh

If he said "and thats where I'm at" one more time I'd of wanted to club him

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[Pausim]

Thank you for that.
I looked it up on the spec, and it’s got a preset for lfp, similar to sterling. That means you can’t do a custom voltage setting. I will have to see how I get on with the dc-dc Orion.

The Votronic VC1212-45 has 4 x LiFePO4 profiles. 13,9V, 14.2V, 14.4V and 14.6V. It also has settings to limit input and output current so that it can work with existing equipment and wiring.

 

[HandyAndy]

OMg I have got time to go back and look at these previous videos now..
Started at the MPPT Victron blue solar controller install.
This was before he did his lithium battery install and was on some sort of basic Lead acid battery...
Someone asked...
"have you tweeked the controller On the Bluetooth app to improve things or left as is ? Cheers.

I’ve left it alone on default, the settings are more for lithium batteries or similar from what I’ve read."

The manual states....
Default setting, LiFePO4 batteries


And more..
Giving out advice in the comments...

Gadget John on tour "Disconnect the solar & battery from the victron. Then connect the solar and then connect the battery"

The manual states.....
Connections must always be made in the sequence described in section 3..

3. Cable connection sequence (see figure 4 at the end of this manual)
First: connect the cables to the load, but ensure that all loads are switched off.
Second: connect the battery (this will allow the controller to recognize system voltage).
Third: connect the solar array.

Mmmm the solar controller is going to love all that solar input up its arse with nowhere to put it..


The blind leading the blind...

HI John, I have the same battery and Victron as per your video but i was just wondering about the battery settings on the Victron. Shall i leave them as factory default or did you change any of the settings?

The victron doesn't have any settings for basic lead acid batteries so leave the settings as they are, I've don that and it works fine.

The manual states...
3.9 Automatic equalization
Automatic equalization is default set to ‘OFF'

Obviously likes his batteries sulphated.




I haven't even finished the first video yet....
If you are reading this john, please get some better advice because your are not doing yourself, or more importantly, your YT viewers any favours at ALL.


Edit...
hahahah OMFG. he thinks turning more things on in the van will increase the output of the solar panel.. Give me strength.

 

[Two on Tour]

Maybe he needs to rename his YouTube channel Gung-Ho John.

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[Scotsblood]

I’m completely confused by this!
He seems to have so little idea I wonder if the ‘install’ was really planned at all.
As Nick says why would you go this route without understanding what you were throwing money at?
I just cannot see how ‘playing’ like this on such a grand scale hasn’t resulted in much bigger problems, he must have just been lucky.

When considering something like this I will always read as much as I can then seek commercial advice. My dear old Dad used to say you were much less likely to be taken in with salesmen’s claims if you actually knew what you wanted to buy and what you needed to get out of it.

I do hope people aren’t taken in by this!

 

[HandyAndy]

Found the install video...
Alpha batteries "reached out to him" and wanted to flog the lithium to him at a discount in return for some "exposure"




BRB just putting the coffee and popcorn machine on.

 

[HandyAndy]

edit.. I'l come back to that actually as I can see better in a different part of the video

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[autorouter]

I think those don't have the inbuilt BMS. I think the ones he has are 120Ah with inbuilt BMS, priced at £1299.99 each.

The discharge graph from alpha batteries states 100ah

I think I've found the source of confusion. The batteries he uses are 100Ah. Relion RB100-D, at £799. They do not have anything in the way of BMS. He talks about being assured that the batteries are 'drop-in replacements' for lead-acid ones.

The Relion 'Insight' series of batteries are quite a bit more expensive, and have a built-in BMS. Because of this, the manufacturers claim they are drop-in replacements for lead-acid batteries. The BMS is supposed to take care of the charging and cell balancing. The BMS acts as a built-in B2B charger, powered by whatever the MH battery charger(s) will throw at it.

Sounds like he (or the sales person) got their wires crossed on that one.

 

[Raul]

Autorouter,
I think they do have a bms, not accessible by user, but is there even if it’s a crude one. It must have basic bleeding boards, LVD HVD.
What amazed me is, it drained it down to 8.xx volts, 2.xx cell and brought them back. Without the aid of a bms, those cells would of been all over. So I think there is a board inside.
The new line of Li from victron, black case, they are the same, bms inside no access. No needed.

 

[HandyAndy]

I bet if Alpha had tested the batteries and they were FUBAR the guy wouldn't have got his money back so easily, if at all..

My comment I edited above was horse manure by the way, as what I thought was a cable bypassing the shunt was actually a cable joining the two batteries together so I jumped the gun a bit there..
I've got bored of trying to figure out what went wrong with this install now and moved on to cooking dinner instead

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[Pausim]

The Relion RB series do have a BMS that protects and balances the battery cells.

 

[Two on Tour]

Raul you spoke earlier in this thread regarding charging lithium from the alternator which I took to be direct from the alternator, if that was the case then this may be of interest to you.

 

[Pausim]

I think I've found the source of confusion. The batteries he uses are 100Ah. Relion RB100-D, at £799. They do not have anything in the way of BMS. He talks about being assured that the batteries are 'drop-in replacements' for lead-acid ones.

All Relion batteries have a Battery Management System (BMS).

This link deals with a number of issues including using an existing charger and alternator problems.

RELiON LiFePO4 Battery Frequently Asked Questions | RELiON

Do you have questions about RELiON LiFePO4 batteries? Let us help you get the right answers.

relionbattery.com

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[Raul]

Thank you Two on Tour
I will have a look later. Just up on Autobahn. Crossed last night.
Bloody roadworks, m20 m26 shut

 

[joka250]

Well I found the video educational. I think I now know what not to buy, how not to instal it and how not to use it . I think!!

 

[Basildog]

Got to about 3 minutes in on the solar and lithium upgrades
Lost the will to live ?
Do people really watch this crap ??

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[Brockley]

I'd love to convert to a more efficient solar/battery system, but I worry about the risk of fire from shorting out. I appreciate BMS's should do their job, but can they detect dendrites forming and creating a short between the anode & cathode before the temperature of the battery becomes an issue?

I'm keeping an open mind for now and watching how John B. Goodenough goes on with his far more efficient solid state battery (zero risk of shorting). I think a lot will depend on who takes up their development, feel sure it will be car manufacturers, but really hoping leisure batteries will be targeted during the inevitable development.

 

[bigtwin]

I'd love to convert to a more efficient solar/battery system, but I worry about the risk of fire from shorting out. I appreciate BMS's should do their job, but can they detect dendrites forming and creating a short between the anode & cathode before the temperature of the battery becomes an issue?

They‘d ’burst’ like a fusible link; can’t see that being a problem. I understood they were considered a potential problem in low voltage/current ’control’ circuits.

Ian

 

[HandyAndy]

I'd love to convert to a more efficient solar/battery system, but I worry about the risk of fire from shorting out. I appreciate BMS's should do their job, but can they detect dendrites forming and creating a short between the anode & cathode before the temperature of the battery becomes an issue?

I'm keeping an open mind for now and watching how John B. Goodenough goes on with his far more efficient solid state battery (zero risk of shorting). I think a lot will depend on who takes up their development, feel sure it will be car manufacturers, but really hoping leisure batteries will be targeted during the inevitable development.

You are mixing up chemistry!!
Lifep04 is much safer and does not turn into a runaway fireball when something goes wrong.

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[autorouter]

You are mixing up chemistry!!
Lifep04 is much safer and does not turn into a runaway fireball when something goes wrong.

Another possible mix-up is confusing 'Lithium-ion' and 'Lithium Iron'. All the Lithium batteries are Lithium-ion. Only one of them (LiFePO4, Lithium Iron Phosphate) is Lithium Iron. Lithium Iron Phosphate is the breakthrough technology that makes Lithium batteries acceptably safe. Nothing is completely safe, right? It will kill you if it drops on your head from a hundred feet.

The table at the bottom of this page sums it up, for those that are interested.
<Broken link removed>

 

[Jim]

but I worry about the risk of fire from shorting out

You shouldn't worry. They are one of the safest batteries you can buy. While they are lithium, The LiFePO4 batteries are the safest type of Lithium batteries and not those you associate with bursting into flames. They don't get hot and overheat, even if you puncture and short them.

 

[Johnen]

Just a thought! Been looking at the relion site linked to above and it states that their LiFopo4 batteries would make an ideal starter battery. Is there anything wrong with using one battery as a starter battery and a leisure battery? I don’t know much about lithium so just asking!

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[HandyAndy]

Yes, if they have internal bms and they both cut the power while the engine is running, you will fry your alternator. Not to mention the complete waste of money.

 

[HandyAndy]

I have just ordered a kit of these.
thats my christmas present to myself sorted. ?

 

[HandyAndy]

Oh that's £318 quid delivered. Less than half the price of any other lifep04 i've found

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