Lithium Batteries - Am I missing the point (1 Viewer)

[Fraggle 22]

We met a bloke at the weekend who was singing the praises of Lithium batteries. We have motorhomed for 5 years and have 2 x 100amp hr lead acid batteries plus 100 watt solar panel. We rarely use EHU and spend most of our time on CS or THS for approx 12 weeks per season. We have never had a problem with power so I'm not sure why I would spend £900 on Lithium. I know they are lighter and more powerful but it would probably be easier to leave the wife at home than change! Any thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[cmcardle75]

The charger, Victron Blue Solar Duo, has 20A output on the spec sheet so should that mean 240W input is OK with 12v?

Yes, it is a PWM controller, so will take up to 240W of parallel connected panels, although there is a voltage limit that is quite restrictive. Do not use series connected panels for this reason. Although Victron's MPPT controllers generally state that you can oversupply solar capacity (i.e. stick 360W panels on a 20A controller and have it discard any surplus power), I'd be surprised if this applies to their PWM controllers.

Whilst it is probably one of the better PWM controllers you can get, you might still want to consider upgrading to an MPPT controller, which will give you a boost of around 10-30% from the same panels and can be specced for larger arrays and much wider voltage and current capacity.

 

[Teithwr]

Thanks both. Practically, if I could switch, subject to size etc, to a 100w panel then that would be a big improvement on my current 40w panel. If I just got new leisure batteries then I'd be charging them more quickly and more effectively on cloudy days presumably. I get the feeling that I'd need to change a lot of other things to move to lithium in this van but would gel be OK?

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[Phill D]

Thanks both. Practically, if I could switch, subject to size etc, to a 100w panel then that would be a big improvement on my current 40w panel. If I just got new leisure batteries then I'd be charging them more quickly and more effectively on cloudy days presumably. I get the feeling that I'd need to change a lot of other things to move to lithium in this van but would gel be OK?

Gel will be fine as long as your main charger has a gel profile selection.

 

[BillyKontiki]

If you only piss about on sites with EHU. Lithium is not for you, don’t waste your money.
If going off grid say for a night or two with low electric usage you’ll be fine with conventional battery’s.
If you’re going off grid for longer and don’t want the worry constantly checking your battery/batteries every 20 minutes they are the way to go. Along with enough solar/ and btb charger you can stay out as long as you want.

 

[Fraggle 22]

Thank you everybody for all the replies to my original post. On balance I have decided to stay with my 2x100amphr lead acid batteries and 150watt solar panel. We have been on THS for up to 8 day stays this year and never had any issues. When they give up the ghost I will look at the options once more.

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[tonyidle]

Anyone considering assembling their own battery? I've just ordered 24 x 285Ah cells which with the addition of a BMS per battery will make six 285Ah 12v batteries.

To my utter astonishment I've just received an email from Wish saying the cells I ordered are out of stock. Who'd have thought it?

 

[pau1phi11ips]

To my utter astonishment I've just received an email from Wish saying the cells I ordered are out of stock. Who'd have thought it?

Pretty sure there's nothing worth buying on Wish.

Well... maybe something for a joke but I certainly wouldn't be buying something I'd need to be reliable on it.

 

[tonyidle]

Pretty sure there's nothing worth buying on Wish.

Well... maybe something for a joke but I certainly wouldn't be buying something I'd need to be reliable on it.

It isn't my first purchase from Wish. I've never had any problem with anything I've bought?

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[Raul]

To my utter astonishment I've just received an email from Wish saying the cells I ordered are out of stock. Who'd have thought it?

At That price, per cell, you will be doing very very well if you find any. Not 16, that was a error listing.

 

[tonyidle]

At That price, per cell, you will be doing very very well if you find any. Not 16, that was a error listing.

I wasn't confident that I'd see them but worth a shot. I think you're right in that I received two emails confirming order and postage details. I'd assume that stock check would occur prior to confirmation so it looks like the price error wasn't noticed until human eyes spotted it as it was picked.

 

[jongood]

I wasn't confident that I'd see them but worth a shot. I think you're right in that I received two emails confirming order and postage details. I'd assume that stock check would occur prior to confirmation so it looks like the price error wasn't noticed until human eyes spotted it as it was picked.

Have you got any further?

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[EuroTrotters]

5 years of 2 x trojan gel 85ah + 160w Solar.

Still going strong

 

[tonyidle]

Have you got any further?

Still watching, looking at prices, planning. I'm still touring but I fully intend to build my next battery using that type of cell. The availability of them is improving with more choice of supplier and size so waiting is doing no harm. My latest lead acid was the final straw: I bought a Bosch LF whatever 230Ah at the end of 2019 at a cost of £240. As you'd imagine it has spent most of the time since then on float at around 13.8v. This trip it has failed to deliver more than 35Ah (down to 12v) and for the first part of the trip only managed 20Ah. It makes a Lithium look cheap.

 

[JJ]

If you’re going off grid for longer and don’t want the worry constantly checking your battery/batteries every 20 minutes they are the way to go.

I've been off-grid for over 30 years and I don't have lithium batteries (except in my phone).

JJ

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[marchie]

I've been off-grid for over 30 years and I don't have lithium batteries (except in my phone).

JJ

I went Lithium because I do worry about 'surviving' off grid! First night away yesterday with the earlier solar shut down and earlier need for lights etc. Battery fell to 13.25v, and Elaine said 'Thank God, now we can enjoy the Van ...'

Steve

 

[JJ]

I went Lithium because I do worry about 'surviving' off grid! First night away yesterday with the earlier solar shut down and earlier need for lights etc. Battery fell to 13.25v, and Elaine said 'Thank God, now we can enjoy the Van ...'

Steve

I am merely trying to draw attention to the fact that very happy and enjoyable motorhoming can be had without the need to spend relatively large amounts on a lithium battery.

People have been motorhoming off-grid for a lot longer than a few days with no problems without a lithium battery.


JJ

 

[marchie]

I am merely trying to draw attention to the fact that very happy and enjoyable motorhoming can be had without the need to spend relatively large amounts on a lithium battery.

JJ

I was just explaining why I chose to go with Lithium, mainly to avoid solo motorhome trips ...

Steve

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[JJ]

I was just explaining why I chose to go with Lithium, mainly to avoid solo motorhome trips ...

Steve

I am just answering Mr BillyKontiki who posted that if you went off-grid for longer than a few days then a lithium battery would be worth it...

I have no problem at all with folk who choose to invest in a lithium system but I do have a problem with giving the impression, bearing in mind lots of Newbys read MHF, that a lithium battery is needed if you go off-grid for any length of time.

It isn't.

JJ

 

[Jeff B]

eddievanbitz said:
Has anyone who has fitted, or had fitted, Lithium batteries regretted it, and gone back to old battery technology?

the1andonly said:
Gaget John

Perhaps the question should have been " Has any normal person who has fitted, or had fitted, Lithium batteries regretted it, and gone back to old battery technology?"

Lenny

I think you fill find he only went back to old technology because he was having problems with the Lithium batterys he had fitted he is now back on lithium

 

[Tombola]

People have been motorhoming off-grid for a lot longer than a few days with no problems without a lithium battery.

missed a bit there JJ.....

"who mostly gets lots of sun more than the UK each day "

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[jongood]

Still watching, looking at prices, planning. I'm still touring but I fully intend to build my next battery using that type of cell. The availability of them is improving with more choice of supplier and size so waiting is doing no harm. My latest lead acid was the final straw: I bought a Bosch LF whatever 230Ah at the end of 2019 at a cost of £240. As you'd imagine it has spent most of the time since then on float at around 13.8v. This trip it has failed to deliver more than 35Ah (down to 12v) and for the first part of the trip only managed 20Ah. It makes a Lithium look cheap.

Myself and funflair were side by side for a few days last week. We were both getting comparable performance from PVs albeit not enough to fully recharge so losing a bit each day. I think we found the difference between Lithium and Gel. we were both using some mains appliances ( Martin a lot more than me) when I got to 70% capacity the appliances were pulling my battery voltages too low whereas Martin got to 30% before he decided to stop.

 

[JJ]

missed a bit there JJ.....

"who mostly gets lots of sun more than the UK each day "

More than ten years of my full timing was in the UK...

JJ

 

[marchie]

I am just answering Mr BillyKontiki who posted that if you went off-grid for longer than a few days then a lithium battery would be worth it...

I have no problem at all with folk who choose to invest in a lithium system but I do have a problem with giving the impression, bearing in mind lots of Newbys read MHF, that a lithium battery is needed if you go off-grid for any length of time.

It isn't.

JJ

You quoted my post, JJ, so I assumed you were replying to me! . I'm still happy with my decision to go Lithium!

Steve

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[tonyidle]

When I started tugging we relied on the car battery. Either EHU didn't exist or they didn't exist in my world. But we managed perfectly well. Next step was a battery in a box moved from car boot for charging to van for use. And we managed even better. Next was a battery in the van charged from car or EHU. And we managed better - for quite a number of years. I bought my first motorhome with a 60Ah battery and a charger I upgraded to multistage. The next motorhome I added solar, the one after that I added twice as much solar and 150Ah of battery. This one is having its roof filled with panels. We're still managing fine. Lithium will offer mains wherever I want it, allow us to use the microwave freely, and do away with any notion of conserving power off hook-up. But we will manage .

 

[pau1phi11ips]

I am just answering Mr BillyKontiki who posted that if you went off-grid for longer than a few days then a lithium battery would be worth it...

I have no problem at all with folk who choose to invest in a lithium system but I do have a problem with giving the impression, bearing in mind lots of Newbys read MHF, that a lithium battery is needed if you go off-grid for any length of time.

It isn't.

JJ

Lithium is the cheaper way to go in the long run though since it can cycle so much more. My 7.2kWh battery cost £800. 1C is 280A and since I'm not using anywhere near that I should be looking at over 3,000 cycles. Probably closer to 4,000 and even that just means it's at 80% of original capacity, is not dead.

 

[JJ]

Lithium is the cheaper way to go in the long run though since it can cycle so much more. My 7.2kWh battery cost £800. 1C is 280A and since I'm not using anywhere near that I should be looking at over 3,000 cycles. Probably closer to 4,000 and even that just means it's at 80% of original capacity, is not dead.

If you are happy EXCELLENT.

All I am saying is you don't have to have lithium batteries to motorhome off-grid successfully and happily...

JJ

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[Clive Mott]

We are still in the honeymoon period with LiFeP04 batteries. Because of their exceptionally long life there have not been enough failures to raise any eyebrows. Hence all the sellers are good friendly smiley people as they have not had to deal with any dissatisfied customers. Having said that potential users do need to have a good reason to spend loadsadosh on a lithium battery. For us it was weight saving of 63kg. Also be aware that the amperage of the battery BMS must be greater than the output of your B2B or the input to your mahoosive inverter. Oh, don't let them get below zero degrees C then try and charge them. They dont like it uppem.

 

[Hymerboy]

why not fit extra solar panels ?

 

[marchie]

why not fit extra solar panels ?

Insufficient space. Lithium suits my paranoia, and extra solar in Scotland in Winter is as much use as a liver transplant from an alcoholic ...

Steve

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[BillyKontiki]

I've been off-grid for over 30 years and I don't have lithium batteries (except in my phone).

JJ

Good for you.