Limp Mode & Yet Another EGR Required!

[Sunlovers]

Our 2007 3.0ltr FIAT Ducato had a brand new EGR fitted in 2015, complete with updated loom connector cable. We've done less than 12K miles with it having been replaced and I'm now being told it now needs replacing again We've just had to make an arduous journey back up from Southern Germany taking us 4 days to get back to Blighty as the limp-mode seriously hampered us on anything remotely resembling a slope. My question is, before I shell out another £700 to get their recommended fix, is there anything else than can be considered as possibly contributing to the problem which might cause the fault code to suggest it's the EGR / throttle body itself that's gone phut?

Really hacked off at the moment as we appear to have been shelling out money hand over fist this past 6 months and to now have to start revisiting engine parts that were previously replaced (but haven't had a hard life) is a bit galling

 

[Jim]

I feel your pain. I've not experienced this, though I'm sure some Funsters have and will be able to offer advice. It's a fact that its impossible to enjoy a holiday when you have niggling doubts about your vans health. Hope you get it sorted soon.

 

[berni109]

i am sure i have seen threads on here talking about a blanking kit for the egr but maybe it need to be working first before the plate and wiring is installed.
use the search function to find the previous posts. maybe it was Techno posted but cant be sure.

 

[jongood]

Our 2007 3.0ltr FIAT Ducato had a brand new EGR fitted in 2015, complete with updated loom connector cable. We've done less than 12K miles with it having been replaced and I'm now being told it now needs replacing again We've just had to make an arduous journey back up from Southern Germany taking us 4 days to get back to Blighty as the limp-mode seriously hampered us on anything remotely resembling a slope. My question is, before I shell out another £700 to get their recommended fix, is there anything else than can be considered as possibly contributing to the problem which might cause the fault code to suggest it's the EGR / throttle body itself that's gone phut?

Really hacked off at the moment as we appear to have been shelling out money hand over fist this past 6 months and to now have to start revisiting engine parts that were previously replaced (but haven't had a hard life) is a bit galling

Thats bad luck. May I ask why you didnt get it fixed in Germany?

Touching wood here - I'm on my original one 2010 72K but I do drive it reasonably quickly, could this be the difference?

 

[Sunlovers]

Thats bad luck. May I ask why you didnt get it fixed in Germany?

Touching wood here - I'm on my original one 2010 72K but I do drive it reasonably quickly, could this be the difference?

It was the day before New Year Eve, late in the afternoon. Trying to find a garage open, let alone a FIAT specialist was nigh on impossible down near Titisee. Believe me we did try! In the end we just had to make that decision to creep home as Germany was pretty much in holiday shutdown mode. We didn't want to invoke the breakdown insurance as we feared we would just be taken to a garage and then be left to wait until they were open again.

To answer your question re speed, we tend not to run much above 2000rpm as a general rule, but that's mainly because at 1850rpm in 6th we can cruise at 55mph all day long. I seriously hope it's not the fact that I don't hare along that it has failed on us :-(

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[Lenny HB]

Before taking it to a garage why not take it out and give a clean may just be gummed up from running at low revs.

 

[ivorantony]

Just replaced mine on my Renault master, ( A full days work) but as I do all my own work it wasn’t a problem,
But after having stripped it out it was the connections going into the EGR that had corroded,

Probably could have got away with cleaning them up but decided to replace the whole unit with small loom,

What really peed me off is though the connector has a sealing ring to stop any moisture getting between the connectors there is nothing to stop moisture entering via the cable and because of the seal will remain there causing corrosion,
On fitting the new cable a dose of sikaflex on the ends and Dielectric grease for the contacts should keep it going for many years to come,

 

[Sunlovers]

Before taking it to a garage why not take it out and give a clean may just be gummed up from running at low revs.

It's already at the garage (independent) I am thinking I might ask them to at least take it off and just have a look at it first, it was running perfectly fine before we stopped for a coffee break and then when I cranked it over to move on it just popped up an EML and went limp

 

[Sunlovers]

Just replaced mine on my Renault master, ( A full days work) but as I do all my own work it wasn’t a problem,
But after having stripped it out it was the connections going into the EGR that had corroded,

Probably could have got away with cleaning them up but decided to replace the whole unit with small loom,

What really peed me off is though the connector has a sealing ring to stop any moisture getting between the connectors there is nothing to stop moisture entering via the cable and because of the seal will remain there causing corrosion,
On fitting the new cable a dose of sikaflex on the ends and Dielectric grease for the contacts should keep it going for many years to come,

I just so think it is a connection problem that has caused the fault to light up, but the trouble is they just want to swap out the whole lot, lock stock and barrel

 

[Augusta08]

Interesting! The Augusta is on the Fiat 3.0ltr the cab is 2007 Sevel label in driver's door jamb. We've never had a moment's problem with it over 100,000 miles. However I wouldn't dream of driving 55mph in sixth gear. I rarely use 6th as I am aware of the lubrication problems 6th has. So I generally cruise in 5th and only if on a motorway use 6th if cruising 65-75mph.

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[TerryL]

Sunlovers sorry to have to say this but IMO that's exactly why the problem has re-occurred - I was told this could happen by the Fiat Professional service manager when I had to have mine done a few years ago. The fact is that Fiat engines are designed to have the arse thrashed off them by van drivers - you never see a commercial with this problem - and the way that the average motorhome is driven is totally different.

I'll admit that I don't thrash ours either but every now and again I give it an "Italian Service", i.e. I run it at higher revs, usually in a lower gear, for ten minutes or so, even better if it's a long climb, to get the engine really warm and so burn off the crud that is the usual cause of EGR "failure". I also never let it "labour" in a high gear, changing down as soon as the speed starts dropping. It doesn't seem to make a lot of difference to the fuel consumption - but then I'd rather use a bit more fuel than suffer another EGR failure. In passing I believe the Comfortmatic gearbox maybe does this itself, never letting the revs drop too far.

I've read somewhere quite recently though can't remember where (Utube ,maybe?) that it is possible to clean the EGR valve. Following on from Lenny's post, when I did have the problem - like you I was away, in Norway actually, - I found that giving it some welly and running at a faster speed did help me get home without too much hassle although didn't cure it.

I wonder if there have been any more cases of this "problem" reappearing?

 

[jongood]

Before taking it to a garage why not take it out and give a clean may just be gummed up from running at low revs.

It sounds like it doesnt it.

Sunlovers with modern lubrication its no longer about low revs they need to be driven, if you only want to do 55mph then drop it into 5th now and again and let it rev a bit, it will also help the DPF out.

 

[42208]

Interesting! The Augusta is on the Fiat 3.0ltr the cab is 2007 Sevel label in driver's door jamb. We've never had a moment's problem with it over 100,000 miles. However I wouldn't dream of driving 55mph in sixth gear. I rarely use 6th as I am aware of the lubrication problems 6th has. So I generally cruise in 5th and only if on a motorway use 6th if cruising 65-75mph.

This is very interesting, you say drive mainly in 5th unless cruising above 65mph because of a lubrication issue, for those of us in the dark would you mind expanding as although I normally drive faster than 60 I would not normally dream of leaving it in 5th at that speed, hills aside and I have never heard of the lubrications issue

 

[42208]

Apologies, different engine, please ignore

 

[Lenny HB]

On my 3rd Ducato never had an EGR problem, we do a lot of mountains so often high revs in low gears. As Terry says with the Comformatic it keeps the revs up rarely drops below 2k.

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[scotzsue]

Had that problem with our golf, advice after replacing the EGR was to thrash it evry now and again, lasted for 17 years, still going as far as we know, replaced it a couple of years ago.
We have a problem with the engine management light being on booked to go in for that and MOT soon. We do run it at high revs regularly, but it hasn't worked this time. Light came on after I stalled the engine, so hoping it is something minor.

 

[68c]

Get a cheap diagnostics reader, it will probably show a misfire fault from when you stalled it. Clear that with the reader and the light will probably go out.

 

[gus-lopez]

I seriously hope it's not the fact that I don't hare along that it has failed on us :-(

It does sound like it.

 

[cakey]

Not sure it’s down to speed but more to do with revs. I was told by the garage that I use, having had the problem last year that every now and again run the engine at 3000 revs for about 10 minutes.

 

[TheBig1]

there are a few issues, the egr does not like low revs constantly and gums up, and water from the scuttle leaks onto the engine corroding the throttle body and the electrical connections in that area

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[tonyidle]

It does sound like it.

I agree. No engine is designed to run at that speed. You really do need a heavier right foot. I enjoy travelling at 50 mph or less when not on a motorway. Motorways are unpleasant places designed only for hurrying so they can be left ASAP. If you up your motorway speed to 65mph your problems will not recur. And continue to enjoy pootling elsewhere.

 

[TheBig1]

you are not saving money long term with a light foot on the pedal. higher fuel bills or big garage bills

 

[Jev88]

I had an old Toyota 4 wheel drive and it was the norm to fit an egr blanking plate.
Don't know if that is an option for you?

 

[Sunlovers]

Well, our current position is that as of Monday evening I’ve had to accept that the throttle body assembly is going to need to be replaced as the garage cannot clear down the fault no matter what they try.

I’ve spoken to many people and can only concur that it does seem that my sedate driving style has contributed to the demise of the replacement part. Quite why I’d never picked up that I needed to regularly run the engine at 3000rpm I truly can’t say.

I guess now though I will be adapting my approach and will endeavour to not fall foul of the same problem again ?

 

[Baldeagle7470]

It was the day before New Year Eve, late in the afternoon. Trying to find a garage open, let alone a FIAT specialist was nigh on impossible down near Titisee. Believe me we did try! In the end we just had to make that decision to creep home as Germany was pretty much in holiday shutdown mode. We didn't want to invoke the breakdown insurance as we feared we would just be taken to a garage and then be left to wait until they were open again.

To answer your question re speed, we tend not to run much above 2000rpm as a general rule, but that's mainly because at 1850rpm in 6th we can cruise at 55mph all day long. I seriously hope it's not the fact that I don't hare along that it has failed on us :-(

We shared your problem when we first bought our current van.It expired in Caceres and the lovely receptionist in the lovely site there found a Bosch specialist,about 15 years old with a laptop diagnosed exactly the same,our van was owned by an elderly French couple,you can’t easily thrash a Motorhome but I do occasionally give it an Italian tune up.Hold it in a lower gear 4th or 5th on a long straight run for a good while about 3,4 thousand revs.When I do it it sometimes smells like baked biscuits!!.
Another thing,I buy a product called Seafoam from the USA,some may say snake oil but some in the diesel tank,some in my motorbikes,I have 4 so some stand for a long time without starting.It really does make a difference,take a look on evil bay and good luck.

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[Grianan]

I had same EGR problem in my Mini Countryman .. luckily only a couple of hours from home. I was told it was because I didn’t get the revs up ... I’ve always tried to keep the revs low but apparently you need to regularly ‘thrash’ the revs ... but not necessarily the speed. Reminded me to do it ...

 

[Stanbrook]

Techno has written at length about this problem on his 2007 3.0 multijet.

Opting for an. EGR AGR Valve simulator Set for Ducato Iveco Boxer Jumper 3.0 JTD HDI. About 80 pounds on feebay.

PIERBURG Throttle Body for FIAT DUCATO CITROEN JUMPER 7.01754.10.0 - Mister Auto. About 170 on feebay

However fitting defeat devices will lead to possible future M.O.T failure.

I have a 2007 3.0 Multijet and following major starting problems (rotten water filled starter motor) had a new starter motor and main battery for 430pounds locally, replacing original sevel parts!
Not bad for 13 years of abuse.
l recommend torque pro and Bluetooth obd for resetting error codes yourself.Hope you find a solution.

 

[Hettie's Crew]

Well, our current position is that as of Monday evening I’ve had to accept that the throttle body assembly is going to need to be replaced as the garage cannot clear down the fault no matter what they try.

I’ve spoken to many people and can only concur that it does seem that my sedate driving style has contributed to the demise of the replacement part. Quite why I’d never picked up that I needed to regularly run the engine at 3000rpm I truly can’t say.

I guess now though I will be adapting my approach and will endeavour to not fall foul of the same problem again ?

Our Throttle body needed replacement in France a couple of years ago and cost us 300euros at Fiat Professional garage in Avranche.
They advised using more revs through the gears.
I still cruise at 55-60 in top but run it up to 3k in the gears when it’s hot, coming out of roundabouts and junctions just take longer to change up and let it rev.
Ours isn’t the 30 ltr though it’s the 2.3.

 

[Pausim]

I am new to Fiat and their EGR so this is a very interesting discussion for me. Some people say to use an occasional tank of premium diesel, do Funsters think this will help? Are there other diesel additives that might help? I am not a believer in under revving diesel engines so I may not be at risk, anyway I don’t find it saves fuel.

 

[Sunlovers]

I am new to Fiat and their EGR so this is a very interesting discussion for me. Some people say to use an occasional tank of premium diesel, do Funsters think this will help? Are there other diesel additives that might help? I am not a believer in under revving diesel engines so I may not be at risk, anyway I don’t find it saves fuel.

Annoyingly, pretty much 6 out of every 10 fills has been with the "premium" diesel, so in nearly every respect I have been paying handsomely for the enjoyment of motoring around Europe. I tried driving my 3.0ltr Grand Cherokee Summit at 3000+ rpm this morning on the way to work .... I really don't think I'm going to enjoy running the Motorhome at that rev pitch whilst supposedly trying to enjoy the scenery. Holding the 8 speed gearbox in 5th to invoke the higher rev count just feels wrong to me

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