Leisure Battery, Decisions, Decisions? (1 Viewer)

[TinaLes]

Hi All, need some advice please on what you would do in our situation re leisure batteries.
We are due to pick up our new German MH on the 2nd October, its from dealer stock, and has been with them since the beginning of 2017. It will come with only one leisure battery which is an Exide 80Amp/Hour deep cycle Gel type, which I presume has been trickle charged whilst in stock.
I will need to have 2 batteries as we will be off hook up whilst travelling. We will have solar panels & controllers etc later after handover.
Question is
1. do we buy another Exide 80 Amp/Hour battery to match existing?, Price £179.00
and run with the type supplied, giving 160Amp/hour, take a chance that existing one will last as long as new one along side it?
Or
2. Scrap existing battery and buy 2 new ones, say Banner Type at 110 Amp/Hour, Deep Cycle Wet Type, Price £110.00 each, so £220 for two, giving 210 Amp/Hour.

What would you do, sorry I know its boring subject, but I am dizzy with having to make decisions on various options, even before we get it home.
Feel free to suggest other brands or types, I have used Banner Brand as an example only.
Many Thanks
TinaL

 

[Robert Clark]

We had the same issue when we bought our Carthago.
We bought another Exide - it was a no brainer !

We then bought another two Exides and moved the batteries into the garage, giving us 4 in total

 

[TinaLes]

Thanks Robert, I know you have a great payload on your Chic C, we will have about 600KGs allowing for existing Exide, so at 22/24KGS each, 4 would be over 100KGS, thats a lot of battery weight for us.
Are you happy with your supplied Exide batts at 80 amp hour each, or did you get bigger capacity ones?
Thanks

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[Robert Clark]

Hi
We bought the same 80ah ones as they fitted as standard.
They're actually very good batteries.
We only added the extra two because we had a 2Kw Inverter and wanted as much resilience as possible.

It's a balancing act between;
Consumption
Generation
Storage

 

[SandraL]

Sonnenshein are, i think, same as exide gel . Try tanya batteries , about £145 for 70 ah gel batt, but i think if you carefulky read spec same as exide 80 ah,. @Lenny HB knows more.
For the longer life and abilty to discharge deeper i have sonnenschein gel, but do select correct charge regime.

 

[Richard n Ann]

I'd buy 2 Varta LFD90s @95 quid each. Gel batteries aren't really suited to high charge/discharge currents as the plates overheat.

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[two]

Get another Exide. You may find cheaper than you suggest, if you shop around. If buying another type (discarding the one provided) make sure that the dimensions match your housing.

 

[Richard n Ann]

Read this before you buy anything ;

http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/battery-technology.php

 

[daveandsan]

As others have said, buy another Exide, I have fitted two G80s and with 140w of solar I never have a problem. The old battery was five years old and I only replaced it because I wanted to fit a pair of them.

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[Alistair33]

Thanks Robert, I know you have a great payload on your Chic C, we will have about 600KGs allowing for existing Exide, so at 22/24KGS each, 4 would be over 100KGS, thats a lot of battery weight for us.
Are you happy with your supplied Exide batts at 80 amp hour each, or did you get bigger capacity ones?
Thanks

80 x 4 = 320 / 2 = usable power of approx 160 at 100kg
If money is not an issue look at the Supr B lithium 165 usable at 26kg if momorey serves me correctly

 

[Richard n Ann]

Lithium batteries are too expensive for the small benefit they give in reality:

http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/lithium-batteries.php

 

[Lenny HB]

Sonnenshein are, i think, same as exide gel . Try tanya batteries , about £145 for 70 ah gel batt, but i think if you carefulky read spec same as exide 80 ah,. @Lenny HB knows more.
For the longer life and abilty to discharge deeper i have sonnenschein gel, but do select correct charge regime.

The Sonnenshein SL75 rated at 78a/h is the same battery as the G80 about £140 from Tanya Batteries
I have 3 of them in my van excellent batteries.
The LFD90 may be 40 quid cheaper but you will be replacing them in less than half the time of the Gels, also you won't have so much capacity as you can take Gels to 80% DOD and still have a long life from them.

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[TinaLes]

Many Thanks everyone, I just needed a prod in the right direction
I will order another Exide G80 ES900 from Tanya Batteries @ £171.99 + £10.08 delivery.
Just need to get the van home beforehand then see whats needed for link cable size and terminals.
Then the solar install is next, need a Shaudlt MPPT controller to connect up with The Elekrobloc, so Highbridge seem to have 20amp ones in stock, will need wiring diagram for connection to elektrobloc, then suss out the reprogramming codes for the control panels. Its gonna be fun I reckon.

 

[TinaLes]

Lithium batteries are too expensive for the small benefit they give in reality:

http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/lithium-batteries.php

Yes they are too expensive at present time, I have been following a thread of a guy who is totally power sufficient in NZ . On his new caravan he has Fitted an elaborate array of panels feeding a lithium battery set, he purchased the whole kit from suppliers in NZ. Having compared what he paid in NZ dollars, to what we can buy them for here in UK was shocking!, we pay double nearly for the same Chinese manufactured lithium cells over here. Not Fair!

 

[funflair]

Many Thanks everyone, I just needed a prod in the right direction
I will order another Exide G80 ES900 from Tanya Batteries @ £171.99 + £10.08 delivery.
Just need to get the van home beforehand then see whats needed for link cable size and terminals.
Then the solar install is next, need a Shaudlt MPPT controller to connect up with The Elekrobloc, so Highbridge seem to have 20amp ones in stock, will need wiring diagram for connection to elektrobloc, then suss out the reprogramming codes for the control panels. Its gonna be fun I reckon.

If you are picking the van up in Germany you might get the EXIDE G80/ES900 cheaper over there, I did, and yes Gel every time for me.

Martin

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[funflair]

I'd buy 2 Varta LFD90s @95 quid each. Gel batteries aren't really suited to high charge/discharge currents as the plates overheat.

The charger should set to Gel and not overcharge, and I ran a 2kw inverter of two old G80's for about three years and now coming up 10 years old I reckon.

Martin

 

[PhilandMena]

Before you make the leap ! Check out your on-board charger and establish what it is capable of charging and the maximum size your battery bank can be maintained at. You also need to establish if your SP controller is suitable for GEL batteries. If both (Charger & SP) are ok for Gel then buy another Gel and you should be OK. (also, what type of cab battery do you have Gel ?) Otherwise, I would go for the 2 x 110 AH Lead Acid Banner batteries (the 95751 is actually 100 AH rated at 200 Cycles @50% DOD). I have these fitted and find them great, they need to be topped up every 6 months but mostly use them off hook up and also have a solar panel fitted, My on-board charger can manage them fine and I expect them to last 4-6 years under present use.

 

[funflair]

Before you make the leap ! Check out your on-board charger and establish what it is capable of charging and the maximum size your battery bank can be maintained at. You also need to establish if your SP controller is suitable for GEL batteries. If both (Charger & SP) are ok for Gel then buy another Gel and you should be OK. (also, what type of cab battery do you have Gel ?) Otherwise, I would go for the 2 x 110 AH Lead Acid Banner batteries (the 95751 is actually 100 AH rated at 200 Cycles @50% DOD). I have these fitted and find them great, they need to be topped up every 6 months but mostly use them off hook up and also have a solar panel fitted, My on-board charger can manage them fine and I expect them to last 4-6 years under present use.

Cab battery won't be Gel but why does that matter.

Martin

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[TinaLes]

Thanks Guys, yes, I agree the cab battery is not likely to be a Gel type,but hopefully an AGM sealed lead acid low maintenance one.
The Solar MPPT controller I am proposing to get is the Shauldt one that is supplied for the Electrobloc ELB, its the only one I have found that supplies a signal feed to the Electroblocs connection to the control panel (over Hab door). Therefore it allows the leisure and the Cab battery to be charged giving priority to the cab battery....I hope? Yes, I see the Electrobloc has settings for Gel or AGM batteries but how it can charge both types is something I dont know yet? as we now know there will be a difference in type between leisure & Cab types. So we will need to find out more when we source and order the kit.
I have also read on a blog that Hymer for example are shy of giving away the configuration codes for the control panel if they didn't fit the kit as a factory option...not nice or helpful eh? I am told that if I scour the internet, that I will discover the codes to set the control panel up to show the Solar inputs and battery state etc. Unless of course any of you know the codes or where to look that is?

 

[SandraL]

Hymer code 8251 works on our ebl101c with dt203 control panel.
Votronic duo mppt solar controller charges both engine and leisure battery and outputs signal to the ebl to indicate charging current for the leisure battery only.

 

[emjaiuk]

Plus 1 for the Votronic Duo, straight plug in with my Electrobloc.

Malcolm

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[OldAgeTravellers]

I second @SandraL 's comment above. Because I have 3 x 100watt panels the Schaudt MPPT regulator couldn't cope so fitted the Votronic MPP350 (quite a bit cheaper) and on advice parallel'd the regulator output to BL6 & BL7. so as to allow up to 30amp input from the panels, if I happen to go to the equator and get maximum output from the panels. It all works very well. The biggest advantage of using the Votronic regulator is that it has an output for the +S terminal on the fridge, if you have that you run a cable to the +S terminal from the regulator put a 20A fuse in the compressor fridge fuse socket under the Schaudt logo on the EBL101 and when your batteries are fully charged the fridge switches over to 12 volt supplied from the Sun. Mine only switch back to gas at night.
I have attached a pdf of the instructions to reset the panel to allow solar.
Best of luck,
Steve

 

[PhilandMena]

Cab battery won't be Gel but why does that matter.

Martin

Assuming all batteries are being maintained by the on-board charge, then they should be of the same type. Unless the charger can sense the type and change the charging regime accordingly to individual batteries. Can they ?

 

[funflair]

Assuming all batteries are being maintained by the on-board charge, then they should be of the same type. Unless the charger can sense the type and change the charging regime accordingly to individual batteries. Can they ?

As I don't know I would have guessed that the charge going to the starter battery is so minimal that it doesn't matter but then I went outside and checked ours as it is plugged at the moment and the starter battery is on 13.6 volts and the Gel habitation batteries are 14.6 so somewhere in the system there is a differentiation.

CBE system by the way

Martin

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[Lenny HB]

Assuming all batteries are being maintained by the on-board charge, then they should be of the same type. Unless the charger can sense the type and change the charging regime accordingly to individual batteries. Can they ?

Starter batteries are often not the same as the hab battery but as it is only receiving a 2 amp trickle charge it does not have a detrimental effect on them.

 

[ctc]

Lithium batteries are too expensive for the small benefit they give in reality:

http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/lithium-batteries.php

This man recommended Varta LDF90s from a dealer (in batteries, never any one with a small turnover) for very good reasons, my starter battery failed in France, 248 euros. The super AGM batteries from Banner lasted a few months, MH dealer had let every battery go flat, killing the batteries.

 

[PhilandMena]

Starter batteries are often not the same as the hab battery but as it is only receiving a 2 amp trickle charge it does not have a detrimental effect on them.

You have lost me on that one! I can only assume your talking about the O P charging regime which you are familiar with (the charger not the person LOL).

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[ctc]

Sorry should have been clearer, watching grand children. Once batteries have been allowed to completely discharge they have had it, might last a little longer but will be soon dead. Read the above link, not just about lithium but the charging regime necessary to keep batteries in top condition. The company he recommends charge me £210 for 3 Varta Ldf 90s delivered.

 

[TinaLes]

Steve, you are a Star!, thanks so much for your suggestions on 300 watt solar regulator, I wanted a Votronic, but thought my hands were tied to having to get the Shaudt one, as it had the signal link output to the electrobloc, but I also knew it was rated at 20 amp max, so only good for 200 watts of panels.
Now I will look at buying the votronic MPP350 instead as it has +s AES output to fridge, along with the signal feed to the Electrobloc. I will have to study the PDF instructions when in front of the control panel, reading glasses on beak,with fag on!,
I just hope The codes are same for Carthago as Hymer, so will find out no doubt. But "Ve have vays of making them talk, no?"

Lenny, thank you also for your input, yes I cant see how many people would be matching their cab battery type, to match their leisure battery type, so no doubt the EBL can work out the difference between the two and apply the correct charging regime....he says hopefully?

Thanks to all, as you are all great in posting so many views and help on this important stuff.

TinaL

 

[funflair]

Thinking about it our starter battery will be looked after by the CBE CSB2 battery master thingy which as @Lenny HB says will only trickle a couple of amps.

@TinaL do you have a AES fridge with S+? the Votronic kit is good stuff IMO, I have two of them fitted.

Martin

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