It's Coming Home... At A Cost!!! (1 Viewer)

[Smudger55]

Since end of October our MHome has been with a Fiat Service centre near Holsworthy to resolve our Amber warning light loss of power, refer thread:

Ducato 2.3 2018 loss power HELP!​

We collect on Friday when all work will have been finished to a cost of over £6,000. Following guidance from Fiat Forum we will only pay for labour, well only but that's almost £1,000. We were out of warranty but there is a problem with certain range of Ducato engines, hence Fiats offer of goodwill to pay for parts. We will be seeking to recover labour costs from Fiat in the New year.

Its been quite stressful as we needed to make plans for Xmas using MHome but up until today we did not know if MHome would be ready. We ended up booking sites otherwise we could have been stuck.

The additional stress is the worry of such problems MHome can cost. We have another large bill in New year for some other fault that wasn't caused by our good selves.

It does leave us disillusioned with the joy of having a MHome when there could hefty repair bills to pay.

Management and I will think long and hard as to whether we should sell, decisions will be made in Spring once Habitation check and MOT have been done.

On the bright side, we will be driving up north in MHome in a weeks time for Xmas, the excitement is building and hopefully rebuild some hope for keeping the MHome.
Still trying to Live the Dream.

 

[CazPaul]

Wow that’s expensive what exactly was the problem for that much money?

 

[Carpmart]

Sadly, as with any other vehicle costing multiple tens of thousands of pounds, you need to be able to afford to protect your investment via keeping it fixed. They ain’t cheap to run!

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[Figaro]

That sounds like the cost of a new engine, seems drastic for symptoms of amber warning light ?

 

[CazPaul]

Sadly, as with any other vehicle costing multiple tens of thousands of pounds, you need to be able to afford to protect your investment via keeping it fixed. They ain’t cheap to run!

Shouldn’t be over £6000 though for a 2018 van engine repair.

 

[Smudger55]

Wow that’s expensive what exactly was the problem for that much money?

There's a problem with certain ducato engines built between 2015 and 2018, all relating to Amber warning light, Limp mode loss of power. Its a bit of a minefield but parts may include parts injectors, DPF, LP EGR, LP EGR cooler, HP EGR. I will have a full list shortly.

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[Carpmart]

Shouldn’t be over £6000 though for a 2018 van engine repair.

It’s not. It’s 1k?

 

[Smudger55]

Shouldn’t be over £6000 though for a 2018 van engine repair.

I've been guided by a thread within the Fiat Forum, overall costs to others were higher than mine but members eventually were successful in Fiat paying for the parts.

 

[CazPaul]

It’s not. It’s 1k?

He said to a cost of over £6000 regardless of who’s paying

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[Carpmart]

He said to a cost of over £6000 regardless of who’s paying

I appreciate that, but the OP is still only paying £1k, so the £6k number is a red herring and in the context of a high value vehicle, is a somewhat predictable/budgetable cost…. It’s the sort of thing that for me, has always been paid from the ‘oh shit’ slush fund…

 

[CazPaul]

I appreciate that, but the OP is still only paying £1k, so the £6k number is a red herring and in the context of a high value vehicle, is a somewhat predictable/budgetable cost…. It’s the sort of thing that for me, has always been paid from the ‘oh shit’ slush fund…

So the bill is over £6000 someone must be paying or making a lot out of the repairs somewhere along the line

What happens when it’s out of warranty who pays the £6000+ repair bill? Or if it’s out of warranty etc does the £6000+ repair bill he said suddenly drop to £1000?

 

[L' Hobo]

Personally, If I had those problems, I would find a campsite, close to home with EHU, and have a few days away just in case there are other issues before I went away. Things that will need fixing now by the same garage and not when one is away.

It is surprising what 3 months of standing about can cause.

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[RowleyBirkinQC]

Are Fiat able to identify the engines built from 2015 to 2018 which are at risk?
If so, I’m curious as to whether this is a Fiat recognised design/manufacturing/build issue?

 

[jongood]

There's a problem with certain ducato engines built between 2015 and 2018, all relating to Amber warning light, Limp mode loss of power. Its a bit of a minefield but parts may include parts injectors, DPF, LP EGR, LP EGR cooler, HP EGR. I will have a full list shortly.

So again - its not the oily bits - its the techno thats going wrong, a lot like the comfortmatic saga.

 

[Smudger55]

Are Fiat able to identify the engines built from 2015 to 2018 which are at risk?
If so, I’m curious as to whether this is a Fiat recognised design/manufacturing/build issue?

I'm not sure how much Fiat will share with you. At moment all the information I have found has come by others who have had similar problems. Contact with Fiat so far has been via the Fiat approved service centre, following my initial call to Fiat Motorhome assistance. There has been, I think an EGR recall in 2017 and some technical notice from Hella. Others, have had to challenge Fiat to pay for the problem taking some time to come to some agreement, I so far have through the local centre, not had to fight for this. I may have to for the Labour though.

I think through a VIN online check website I could pay for some reports on history of the engine, which I may have to do.

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[Figaro]

So the bill is over £6000 someone must be paying or making a lot out of the repairs somewhere along the line

What happens when it’s out of warranty who pays the £6000+ repair bill? Or if it’s out of warranty etc does the £6000+ repair bill he said suddenly drop to £1000?

I think he says it is out of warranty but Fiat picked up the parts cost as a gesture of goodwill.
I guess there will be a cut off point where Fiat don't accept responsibility and the owner picks up the £6k cost ?
Interestingly, one of the youtube vanlifers has just posted their "content" and their 2015 Fiat engine has just let go and they have a £6-7k bill for a new engine.
Not sure if the problem is related to this issue but worrying if relatively new vehicles are having to have new engines and this becomes the norm.

 

[the1andonly]

The problem is not a one off, smudger is one of the lucky ones to get Fiat assistance not all do. This is the second in Uk (that i know of). 1 in germay and Sweden none in former Soviet block but about 8 with sucessful outcomes in Hungary with a simple non Fiat approach. About 4 in germay and 1 in slovakia have had sucess with Remapping and deleating both EGRs. No such solution currently known of in UK. Tell me if you know otherwise.
This only relates to the twin EGR model.My thoughts on the problem having an example to play with and analysing data from a lot of engines from around the world is that its related to poor design component deficiencies and poor software. Poor design: the engine has a DPF and uses overfueling to enable Regeneration, world class would have 5th injector (fiat does use the 5th injector on some car and not others with same engine, space reasons). The Citroen Peugeot ad blu is also a problem with a 5th injector system trying to do two jobs DPF regen with diesel and SCR with adblu. The Ducato injectors are the same as earlier models but require more precise metering. The overfuelling with this injector can cause build up on the tips giving wider injector variances.The Fiat spec is +-2 mine and poor ones can be +-4. In comparison my VAG 1.6 is +-0.5. Hence regular dosing with injector cleaner.
Poor software: a number of updates have been available (not all FP dealers have been applying them at routine services.
The Problem generaly shows itself as a P0401 codes (sometimes with other codes). There is a "tea strainer"in the LPEGR cooler that get blocked, there is also a reduction in the temperature attained. The worst outcome can also be a cracked DPF. In its simplest incarnation it can be solved by Change of LPEGRcooler (8 hours Fiat time) and change of MAP sensor (counter intuitive and counter Fiat reccomendations).
My plan of action will be regular monitoring using Multiecuscan. and regular addition of diesel additives (current favourite Liqui Moly Diesel purge) and monitoring of the exhaust pipe (these should be spotless no soot). (I all ready have a replacement MAP sensor in the glovebox) and cooler in the shed.

 

[nicholsong]

The problem is not a one off, smudger is one of the lucky ones to get Fiat assistance not all do. This is the second in Uk (that i know of). 1 in germay and Sweden none in former Soviet block but about 8 with sucessful outcomes in Hungary with a simple non Fiat approach. About 4 in germay and 1 in slovakia have had sucess with Remapping and deleating both EGRs. No such solution currently known of in UK. Tell me if you know otherwise.
This only relates to the twin EGR model.My thoughts on the problem having an example to play with and analysing data from a lot of engines from around the world is that its related to poor design component deficiencies and poor software. Poor design: the engine has a DPF and uses overfueling to enable Regeneration, world class would have 5th injector (fiat does use the 5th injector on some car and not others with same engine, space reasons). The Citroen Peugeot ad blu is also a problem with a 5th injector system trying to do two jobs DPF regen with diesel and SCR with adblu. The Ducato injectors are the same as earlier models but require more precise metering. The overfuelling with this injector can cause build up on the tips giving wider injector variances.The Fiat spec is +-2 mine and poor ones can be +-4. In comparison my VAG 1.6 is +-0.5. Hence regular dosing with injector cleaner.
Poor software: a number of updates have been available (not all FP dealers have been applying them at routine services.
The Problem generaly shows itself as a P0401 codes (sometimes with other codes). There is a "tea strainer"in the LPEGR cooler that get blocked, there is also a reduction in the temperature attained. The worst outcome can also be a cracked DPF. In its simplest incarnation it can be solved by Change of LPEGRcooler (8 hours Fiat time) and change of MAP sensor (counter intuitive and counter Fiat reccomendations).
My plan of action will be regular monitoring using Multiecuscan. and regular addition of diesel additives (current favourite Liqui Moly Diesel purge) and monitoring of the exhaust pipe (these should be spotless no soot). (I all ready have a replacement MAP sensor in the glovebox) and cooler in the shed.

If there are any owners who do not want to enter emissions zones, would it not be possible to strip out all that gubbins and revert to Euro 3 emissions just like my 2003 2.8 Jtd.

I realise some will say it has to be there for an MOT for a vehicle that age, but if one can downgrade for weight then why not for emissions category?

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[gus-lopez]

so the £6k number is a red herring and in the context of a high value vehicle,

as said if the op had not found others with similar problems on the fiat forum he would be footing the whole bill as fiat are not stating that all these veiciles have possible problems?

 

[the1andonly]

the £6k number is a red herring and in the context of a high value vehicle, is a somewhat predictable/budgetable cost….

Unfortunately there are a number of people who havent been so lucky, its been a long haressment of Fiat CEO in Italy to get some movement. the high cost is due to FP assessing and replacing rather than cleaning in most cases HPEGR LPEGR LPEGRcooler cat DPF injectors Software update to V32. The first person to get Fiat assistance is on his second total refurbishment with Fiat Italy technicians involved and no longer discusses his position. Subjected to an NDA? The real cost to most people is as specified and it also affects white van man not just high value motor homes. Fiat is not a benevolent society.

 

[nicholsong]

Of course it will not cost FIAT anything like the other £5,000 of the bill to replace the parts.

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[robrace]

Buy a Ford Transit!Had 5 over last 30 odd years and never had a problem with any of them!only ever had routine servicing! Nothing else!

 

[Smudger55]

Unfortunately there are a number of people who havent been so lucky, its been a long haressment of Fiat CEO in Italy to get some movement. the high cost is due to FP assessing and replacing rather than cleaning in most cases HPEGR LPEGR LPEGRcooler cat DPF injectors Software update to V32. The first person to get Fiat assistance is on his second total refurbishment with Fiat Italy technicians involved and no longer discusses his position. Subjected to an NDA? The real cost to most people is as specified and it also affects white van man not just high value motor homes. Fiat is not a benevolent society.

Hi the 1and only
The information above is useful, is there anywhere that has these problems documented or have you found all this out through your own research. Cheers Smudger55

 

[the1andonly]

Hi the 1and only
The information above is useful, is there anywhere that has these problems documented or have you found all this out through your own research. Cheers Smudger55

UFORTUNATELY nothing really doccumented in public domain other than on Fiat Forum. Though don't restrict search to there. Most is personal email and PM content, in some cases as reporters say some sources need to be protected. Find a friendly ex FP employee and ask some questions, they will be more forthcoming than current employees.

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[Smudger55]

Hooray, MHome is now back on drive.
Great feeling driving it again. We can now get ready for our trip next Friday.

Picture of old DPF below, much bigger than i expected. And its heavy!!!

 

[Jolak]

Reading this makes me wonder whether I should have stuck to caravanning. Can someone tell me that a 2015 Peugeot Boxer in an Elddis Majestic body which appears to have been well looked after with only 21000 on the clock, is going to be trouble free without any inherent expensive faults. I'm about to spend five grand to increase my parking area so I can keep it at home. I hope you get your problems sorted. Since owning a Fiat in the 60's, I have had a reluctance to go anywhere near another one.

 

[JJ]

Since owning a Fiat in the 60's, I have had a reluctance to go anywhere near another one.

Big difference between the 60's and now... man.

JJ

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[Manxcat]

You are lucky. Our mh broke down in May in South France. Been at our local garage since left by low loader in August. Still no part. It needs a new Seeley unit, something to do with the comformatic gearbox. The unit is £3,600 + VAT. I suspect the final bill will be over 5k.

The van was 2 months over warranty and just over 10,000 miles.

 

[dunnah01]

You are lucky. Our mh broke down in May in South France. Been at our local garage since left by low loader in August. Still no part. It needs a new Seeley unit, something to do with the comformatic gearbox. The unit is £3,600 + VAT. I suspect the final bill will be over 5k.

The van was 2 months over warranty and just over 10,000 miles.

a 10 min TCU adjustment doesn't take over 7 months and certainly doesn't cost over £5k

 

[Manxcat]

a 10 min TCU adjustment doesn't take over 7 months and certainly doesn't cost over £5k

Sorry I am not a mechanic. Don't know what a TCU is. We were called to the garage to dicuss the the issue. There is a plastic disc with metal bits in it. This has started to disintegrate and metal and plastic filings have contaminated the oil in the unit. Our engineer, who we trust has advised the whole unit needs replacing.

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