isolate EBL from 240v hookup? (1 Viewer)

gerry mcg

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is there anyway to isolate the EBL from the 240v hookup (and internal 240v sockets?
reason i ask is i have heard it is bad practice to leave the hookup on 24/7 over the winter as this can cause overcharging issues - so would it be possible to somehow bypass the EBL by flicking a circuit breaker, but leave the 240v sockets powered up?
I’ll need to investigate a bit tonight, but i seem to recall a bank of breakers beside the 240v distribution panel by the hookup point
 
Jan 19, 2014
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The breaker should be labeled up charger. I've put mine on it's own switch now at the side.
 

RowleyBirkinQC

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I’m curious about this too, would like to put a small 240v heater in the van over winter like we have in previous British vans where the charger can be isolated. However, we’ve also heard its not ideal to keep EBL on permanent hookup.

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SandraL

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Our ebl101 has the mains supply via a " kettle" plug on front of ebl. Just pull it out to disconnect mains from ebl.
 
Oct 29, 2008
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They all have a push in power cable.
I wouldnt leave a heater running in the van. Condensation only happens where heated air hits cold, Heep it cold like outside and no condensation.
 
Feb 22, 2011
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I think that will stop any charge going to the cab and leisure batteries.
I just leave hook up on for a few days then off for a few days, seems to work.
I had considered putting it on a timer so I didn't have to think about it, just let it charge for a couple of hours a day.
Having said that I was told it was ok to leave connected permanently.
Don't bother heating during winter, just ventilate well

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Minxy

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We use a simple timer on the socket in our garage which comes on for a couple of hours a day, no messing about having to worry about turning it on/off, we don't have a heater though, it's just to keep the batteries topped up.
 
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gerry mcg

gerry mcg

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I don't want to disconnect the EBL, as I might want to go into the van to tinker, and disconnecting the EBL would mean there would be no lighting.
I've got solar, so keeping the batteries topped up isn't an issue. But I just want to prevent constant 240v flowing to the EBL if possible.
A timer isn't an option as I have the hookup lead on a fused spur with a wired on / off switch to a waterproof external socket. A timer fitted to the external socket would not be waterproof
 

Allanm

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If it’s a modern charger, leaving it connected shouldn’t cause any problems, it should sense how much power to put into the batteries and just leave it on a maintenance charge.
We have always kept the heater on in the van in the winter when in use or parked up. When it’s empty, the thermostat is set to around 10 degrees. The body is insulated and there won’t be any cold spots to cause condensation.
But, leaving it unheated shouldn’t cause a problem either, dealers don’t heat their vans in the winter........

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RowleyBirkinQC

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I wasn’t intending to heat the van proper (eg for habitation), but use one of those small winter (anti frost?) heaters (dont recall what they are called) just to keep the worst of the chill / damp out the air. That said, we didnt do so last winter after getting this van and nothing bad happened. ;)
 
Apr 27, 2016
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We use a simple timer on the socket in our garage which comes on for a couple of hours a day, no messing about having to worry about turning it on/off, we don't have a heater though, it's just to keep the batteries topped up.

Like most modern chargers, the EBL has a 3-stage charging cycle. Constant current, then constant overvoltage, then constant trickle charge voltage. It goes through this cycle every time it thinks it is asked to charge the batteries. If you switch it on and off every day, it will go through this cycle every day.

In my opinion this is worse than leaving it on trickle charge permanently.

Admittedly, the charge cycle lasts only a few seconds if the battery is practically fully charged, but to me there is no reason to go to extra effort for an outcome that is slightly worse.

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Jan 19, 2014
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Our charger is a cheap 13.8v power supply so I rarely use it now. I bought an optimate 2 for the main leisure battery and a lidl charger for the engine battery.
The optimate has a bit lower float charge at 13.2v which is now the latest thinking. And the Lidl charger screen often shows 12.8v so that doesn't force feed the battery either.
When out of the garage solar looks after both batteries.
 
Apr 27, 2016
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I don't want to disconnect the EBL, as I might want to go into the van to tinker, and disconnecting the EBL would mean there would be no lighting.

If you disconnect the 'kettle lead', the EBL thinks the mains hookup has disappeared. The mains charger obviously will not work.

However, all the 12V circuits, lighting, pump etc will function just as if you were on a site with no hookup.
 
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gerry mcg

gerry mcg

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I found the answer.... There is a circuit breakers that specifically isolates the EBL :) if I flick the middle breaker open then the hookup indicator on the control panel goes out
293DEF75-8749-4628-842B-ADD7CBA2B429.jpeg

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Lenny HB

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Admittedly, the charge cycle lasts only a few seconds if the battery is practically fully charged, but to me there is no reason to go to extra effort for an outcome that is slightly worse.
Afraid it doesn't with EBL's the absorption charge is timed, i.e. if you switch the power off and then back on the EBL will take the batteries up to 14.4v/14.7v Gel/AGM then hold at 14.4v for 16 hours for Gel or 14.7v for 4 hours for AMG, older EBL's the Gel cycle was only 8 hours. This will happen every time you apply power to the EBL.
 

dabhand

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Had three vans over last 25 years, always permanently plugged in when at home, no problem.
 
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gerry mcg

gerry mcg

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Afraid it doesn't with EBL's the absorption charge is timed, i.e. if you switch the power off and then back on the EBL will take the batteries up to 14.4v/14.7v Gel/AGM then hold at 14.4v for 16 hours for Gel or 14.7v for 4 hours for AMG, older EBL's the Gel cycle was only 8 hours. This will happen every time you apply power to the EBL.
My understanding of the EBL 119 charging profile is that of Lenny's

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Apr 27, 2016
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Afraid it doesn't with EBL's the absorption charge is timed, i.e. if you switch the power off and then back on the EBL will take the batteries up to 14.4v/14.7v Gel/AGM then hold at 14.4v for 16 hours for Gel or 14.7v for 4 hours for AMG, older EBL's the Gel cycle was only 8 hours. This will happen every time you apply power to the EBL.

In my manual for the (older) EBL 101 C, it is much less definite:

"The duration of the full charge phase depends on the type of battery and can be adjusted at the device."

Nevertheless, it sounds like the profile is much the same as the EBL119. That's a recipe for serious overcharging, in some circumstances. If it wasn't there in black and white I'd never have believed it.

Next time it's on hookup I'll investigate. But it looks like, after a full day's drive, with all the batteries fully charged, you plug in the hookup and it goes off on a full charge cycle of several hours, regardless.

I was kind of assuming it would be like my CTEK charger. For a full battery, it goes through the complete charge cycle and ends up with trickle charge in about thirty seconds. But I can see now that the EBL is not like that at all.

And now I can also see why the OP might want to isolate the EBL when on hookup.
 

Lenny HB

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In my manual for the (older) EBL 101 C, it is much less definite:

"The duration of the full charge phase depends on the type of battery and can be adjusted at the device."
It has a switch on the front panel and you can select Gel or Wet Battery.

Nevertheless, it sounds like the profile is much the same as the EBL119. That's a recipe for serious overcharging, in some circumstances. If it wasn't there in black and white I'd never have believed it.
.
From the 101C Manual:
"Start of a new charging cycle by switching over to main charge, if the battery
voltage falls below 13.8 V for more than 5 seconds when loaded. Start of
charge also for totally discharged batteries. "

Difference between the older EBL's and the newer ones:-

The older ones charged to 14.3 volts and had an absorption phase of 1 hour for Wet Cells and 8 hours for Gels.

The newer ones charge to 14.4 volts with an absorption phase of 16 hours for Gels and for AGM's they charge to 14.7 volts with an absorption phase of 4 hours. Not suitable for Wet Cells.

I don't understand why they have increased the absorption phase to 16 hours for Gels, they have been using the 8 hour setting for over 20 years without problems and Victron who market their own high quality Gels their chargers have an absorption phase of 4 hours on the standard setting.

If you have Gel batteries holding at the charge voltage does not cause any problems with Gels they can tolerate being held at 14.4 volts.
My current van I replaced the AGM battery with 3 x Gel batteries I have absolutely no confidence in AMG's for Leisure use.

Another thing to be aware of on EBL's apart from much older ones like the 200 series all ones of the last 15 or more years such as EBL99,100,101,119,29,30 etc. The Solar connections are only a pass through making an easy way to connect the batteries and has no effect on the solar charge.

From an interest point of view our first Hymer was a 2008 Tramp with 2 Gel batteries from new, an EBL 101C. The first year it was left on EHU at home apart from that it hardly ever saw a EHU. In the 2nd year I fitted a solar panel and the Schaudt LR1218 Solar regulator, which I since found out once it reaches its charged voltage of 14.2 volts it maintains that voltage constantly it does not drop back to a maintenance voltage, at least it's not on at night.
Just before we sold the van at nearly 6 years old I did a thorough test on the batteries they were still performing like new.

The LR1218 was designed in the days of the 200 series EBL's and they used to control the solar charge, the new LRM1218 Solar regulator has settings for Wet, Gel & AGM, and does drop back to a maintenance charge of 13.8v.

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