Is this Niesmann Arto 69 worth it?

[Smunkey74]

Hi all. I'm just looking for our first Motorhome and this Niesmann has caught my eye but it does look a little unloved and I'm not sure if that is damp at the bottom corners of the rear window.
Any advice would be very much welcome, thank you.

 

[Solwaybuggier]

Certainly no expert on these - but if it’s plated at 3500 kg and a claimed 400kg payload (quick google search) I think I’d want a weighbridge reading to check it’s actual payload with fitted extras.

 

[Smunkey74]

Certainly no expert on these - but if it’s plated at 3500 kg and a claimed 400kg payload (quick google search) I think I’d want a weighbridge reading to check it’s actual payload with fitted extras.

Ooh, that's not much when you add in 2 adults, 2 kids, a dog, bikes and everything else you need to take

 

[Jimbohorlicks]

Yes,some signs of damp under the rear window ,could be window seals leaking.Also front mattress stained.
Otherwise not a bad spec and low mileage for the year.
I would be wary of the 3500 kg ,it won't have much available payload available so bank on up plating which isn't that expensive and that you need a C1 licence.
You need to look at it.
Reduced for quick sale ,? Get it reduced lower.

 

[nicholsong]

Hi all. I'm just looking for our first Motorhome and this Niesmann has caught my eye but it does look a little unloved and I'm not sure if that is damp at the bottom corners of the rear window.
Any advice would be very much welcome, thank you.

We have identical Arto 69GL 2003, which we have had as our first MH for 13 years and still very pleased with it.

It is difficult to beat the N&B quality and ours has held up very well.

As already pointed out the payload at 3500kg max weight is not workable. When we bought ours it was at 3500kg but I had it upped to 3850kg, which was a paper excercise. That has been fine for two of us with full tanks and 2 bicycles, and gives us about 70ks to spare. That can be upped to 4,000kg with air suspension, which I think you would need with your family. maybe you should talk to SVTech about this - they will usually chat about it before charging you.

The weight issue depends on how you want to use it. We do all wild(off-campsite) touring so want to run with full tanks. If you go to campsites you can run with empty water and fill on arrival.

The price is about right in current market for an asking price if in good condition. Don't worry about an odd seal leak - we had one, easily fixed. The main structure of double aluminium sandwich bonded at the seams is unlikely to ever give a problem.

You are unlikely to lose much over a few years as S/H N&B hold their prices very well because of the build quality, especially those of that era and before.

Also the 2.8Jtd engine is solid and uncomplicated. Of course it is Euro III, so limited in cities without emissions suppression, but that does not worry us.

Negotiate on a few minor defects and you would have a good MH. Don't hang around as there are not many in UK and I would expect it to be sold quickly unless there are any major problems, which I doubt, unlike some makes I could mention.

Goodness, I sound like a salesman, which I am not, just a happy owner!

Geoff

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[CazPaul]

That garage floor looks new so check underneath as it could have rotted.

Check all exterior locker doors for leaks especially the large garage door.

 

[nicholsong]

That garage floor looks new so check underneath as it could have rotted.

Check all exterior locker doors for leaks especially the large garage door.

Yes Paul is correct that there have been some leaks through seals onto garage floors which have caused rot. We have not experienced that - in fact I have to push the garage door with my knee to close it because of the seal pressure.

 

[Smunkey74]

Thank you all so much for the responses, they truly have been very helpful. Having read through much of the Buying Guide last night and the responses to this question, I think that this probably isn't the motorhome for us.

Time to start looking for something with a bigger payload

 

[Southdowners]

You’re bound to find a vehicle which suits your needs.

I’d second what Nicholsong said about Niesmann vehicles - you might find a larger one with better payload.

Good luck with your search…

 

[Pausim]

I think the wind out awning, habitation air con, satellite system, bike rack and solar may well have already used all the available payload. Definite case for weigh bridge before purchase.

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[Smunkey74]

You’re bound to find a vehicle which suits your needs.

I’d second what Nicholsong said about Niesmann vehicles - you might find a larger one with better payload.

Good luck with your search…

It was the build quality and reputation which originally attracted me to this vehicle.
I'm happy to do work on vehicles so the few "issues" weren't a complete turn off but having to have the suspension upgraded just to use it possibly is.

 

[Southdowners]

It might be worth getting an estimate for air suspension.

 

[funflair]

The N+B brochure for 2003 shows Max allowable as 3850kg and MIRO as close to 3300kg so not sure if 3500kg is right or if it has been down plated, with the additions on this van it is going to be 3500kg already.

As others have said the garage chequer plate looks new so I guess it has had the garage floor replaced which is about the only place these old N+B's could rot as far as I know, the water stain around the rear window could be down to blocked drains in the window frame.

 

[Smunkey74]

It might be worth getting an estimate for air suspension.

Would 4000kg be enough though? I'll have a chat to SVTech and get an idea.

 

[nicholsong]

Would 4000kg be enough though? I'll have a chat to SVTech and get an idea.

Newer Artos go to higher weights but probably not in that price range. There may be slightly older Flairs which might have the payload - funflair could comment on that as he had one, before he went extra posh with his Morelo.

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[funflair]

Newer Artos go to higher weights but probably not in that price range. There may be slightly older Flairs which might have the payload - funflair could comment on that as he had one, before he went extra posh with his Morelo.

Better payload with a Flair Geoff but the price/size/weight generally goes up as well.

 

[jongood]

Our second motorhome was identical, great vehicle had it 6 years. They are heavy because they are made properly, even later Artos aren't made as well but the 3 litres are a better drive.
We fitted airides easily done in a couple of hours and then upped the weight so we could carry a scooter 4100kgs with the air assisted. Main things to look for is misting in the double glazed cab windows and cracked shower tray ( Main culprit for soaking the garage floor).

Whether it's right for you depends on what you want to do.

 

[Smunkey74]

Good morning everyone and thanks for all the advice. I thought I'd summarise my thoughts so far.

1. There are multiple issues with the van. Damage to the rear plastics and lights, misting of the window panel on the drivers side, damage to the awning fabric and structure, corroded wheels, stains and wear on the fabric of chairs and bed.
2. I've finally managed to get a copy of the habitation report carried out last April. It shows damp in the garage. I don't know whether this was before or after the floor was replaced. There was no mention of the damp below the window in the rear.
3. The agent is not being very helpful with getting information. I've asked for MOT and service records. It's a 3.5-4 hour drive to see this van and I would like to get as much information before I decide to travel or not.
4. Apparently the owner has never had the vehicle weighed.
5. The last MOT in January states two advisories. Damage to the windscreen on an which I can't see in the photo's and corrosion on the power steering hoses.
6. The vehicle is registered as 3500kg so I would need to up-plate it possibly upgrading the suspension at some point.
7. The plan for this year is to just travel within the UK. We'll do a one or two nights at most off-grid but the main holidays will be on sites with hook-ups. Next year, we're would like to travel to France and the Netherlands, maybe Spain and Portugal.

Is this a fair summary of what we've discussed?
Are these points enough to walk away from it?

I'm going to get another habitation inspection done on any vehicle before I buy it just to double check.

I'm struggling to find much else within this price bracket with the spec I'd like although I have found a 2004 Hymer B524 which is a bit more expensive but looks tidier.

Any thoughts once again gratefully received.

 

[Itsmcb]

Just my opinion but regarding points 1 and 5 you should bear in mind that the van is 20 years old.

 

[Smunkey74]

Just my opinion but regarding points 1 and 5 you should bear in mind that the van is 20 years old.

Yep, completely agree. There do appear to be older vans which have been much better cared for.

My thoughts on this are, is the premium brand status with these faults represented in this price?
If so, with some tlc which I'm more than prepared to do, is it going to be a good buy?

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[jongood]

Yep, completely agree. There do appear to be older vans which have been much better cared for.

My thoughts on this are, is the premium brand status with these faults represented in this price?
If so, with some tlc which I'm more than prepared to do, is it going to be a good buy?

I don't think i would be that concerned about damp, unlike anything else at this age and price there is no chance of structural damage. Plastic can be repaired easily enough and you would probably want to re upholster it anyway at this age. The drivers window could be expensive although people on here have self repaired.

Whether its worth the money depends on whether it suits your needs or not.

 

[nicholsong]

Just my opinion but regarding points 1 and 5 you should bear in mind that the van is 20 years old.

So is our identical Arto(same year) but does not have those faults.

 

[Smunkey74]

So is our identical Arto(same year) but does not have those faults.

Geoff, I looked back at your previous post and just wanted to pick your brains a bit more if that's OK.

How often should the air con unit on the top be serviced? Are there any problems with them?

Finally, I know you originally said you think with a bit of negotiation this could be a good buy, do you still think that?

 

[jongood]

So is our identical Arto(same year) but does not have those faults.

I suspect yours has had a gentler life Geoff

 

[CazPaul]

Walk away it’s not in good enough condition even for one of that era.

Don’t panic with van purchases another one always comes along.

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[jongood]

Geoff, I looked back at your previous post and just wanted to pick your brains a bit more if that's OK.

How often should the air con unit on the top be serviced? Are there any problems with them?

Finally, I know you originally said you think with a bit of negotiation this could be a good buy, do you still think that?

Afaik that aircon will be maintenance free but you won't be using it much unless you 're on hook up or invest in some decent batteries.

Cant help with market value as the market is higher than I've ever seen it. We sold ours in 2011 for about that.

 

[nicholsong]

Geoff, I looked back at your previous post and just wanted to pick your brains a bit more if that's OK.

How often should the air con unit on the top be serviced? Are there any problems with them?

Finally, I know you originally said you think with a bit of negotiation this could be a good buy, do you still think that?

The aircon is not a standard fit and I have never had one.

You are still waiting info on MOT and service.

I would also want it weighed, even before you talk to SVTech

I would do those things before even thinking of driving to view it, because this will establish whether it suits your needs even when everything is working.

As to the list of faults: it indicates to me that it has not been well-cared for and that might lead to other unknown faults coming to light.

Has the garage floor actually been renewed or has it just been covered by the checker-plate?

To my mind it is starting to look as though the odds are stacking up against this one, regardless of price, unless you could get it for £20K.

There will be others around: coincidentally an identical one(2003) has just been sold by the widow of a couple, good friends of us. I do not know the price. She was only selling it to downsize for her needs now, which she has just done.

First concentrate on the weight and possible upgrade in max weight, because it will also inform you about what sort of weight MH you need when looking at any others.

Geoff

 

[Smunkey74]

The aircon is not a standard fit and I have never had one.

You are still waiting info on MOT and service.

I would also want it weighed, even before you talk to SVTech

I would do those things before even thinking of driving to view it, because this will establish whether it suits your needs even when everything is working.

As to the list of faults: it indicates to me that it has not been well-cared for and that might lead to other unknown faults coming to light.

Has the garage floor actually been renewed or has it just been covered by the checker-plate?

To my mind it is starting to look as though the odds are stacking up against this one, regardless of price, unless you could get it for £20K.

There will be others around: coincidentally an identical one(2003) has just been sold by the widow of a couple, good friends of us. I do not know the price. She was only selling it to downsize for her needs now, which she has just done.

First concentrate on the weight and possible upgrade in max weight, because it will also inform you about what sort of weight MH you need when looking at any others.

Geoff

Thanks Geoff, you've really confirmed what my underlying thoughts. If the aircon isn't standard fit, that is going to add additional weight which is going to reduce our payload.

 

[Pausim]

Thanks Geoff, you've really confirmed what my underlying thoughts. If the aircon isn't standard fit, that is going to add additional weight which is going to reduce our payload.

Even if the air con was a factory fitted extra it would still have to come out of the payload. Manufacturers usually give the payload in the basic condition before factory fitted extras such as air con, wind out awning and solar.

 

[nicholsong]

Smunkey74

You are getting some good information from several people who know not only N&B but other well-built so heavier MHs, which lead to similar payload problems, particularly with the family and accoutrements you wish to carry. What do your sons weigh, and what will they weigh in 2 years?

I think that, by whatever means, you probably need a max weight of 4250kg and should be setting your sights on that either existing weight or achievable by modification. If you run with minimal water and fuel maybe 4000kg would do, but it would restrict flexibility.

Geoff